USS Monitor

Yeah, and looking now in my profile under Messages, I can't find any feature to start a new message.

They certainly don't make things easy. This is one of the user-unfriendlier sites on the web these days.

A workaround would be to find a post by Tim, and then click his name to get to his profile, and send him a message that way.  That's how you can send a message to any forum member, by the way-click the name in the box next to his post in a thread.

Looking at my own messages, I got his profile page from a discussion we had.  It's:

http://cs.finescale.com/members/tim-kidwell/default.aspx

If you go there, you'll see a button to send a private message.

Hope that helps!

How did you get their email address?

It doesn't show up anywhere that I have looked.

Lightfoot

 

the Baron

Nino

This  Monitor topic is under General Modeling Discussion

 To post your building activity for this or any topic of a specific nature regarding ships, like your USS Monitor "Build",  you should create a new Topic under Ships.

I think the moderators can just move the thread, if asked.  That would be a lot easier, than if the OP had to create a whole new one, re-enter text and photo links, etc.

 

Not a bad idea but I don't see any way to contact the Moderators to do it.

the Baron

Nino

This  Monitor topic  is under General Modeling Discussion

 To post your building activity for this or any topic of a specific nature regarding ships, like your USS Monitor "Build",  you should create a new Topic under Ships.

I think the moderators can just move the thread, if asked.  That would be a lot easier, than if the OP had to create a whole new one, re-enter text and photo links, etc.

 

Nino

This  Monitor topic  is under General Modeling Discussion

 To post your building activity for this or any topic of a specific nature regarding ships, like your USS Monitor "Build",  you should create a new Topic under Ships.

Right now I only have an old account with Photo Bucket.  Don't particularly care for their printing a logo across the picture.  Do you have any recomendations for a good site, preferrably one that doesn't charge for use?  I have my own web site but it is used for a game I am developing and may not be continued at some point.

Lightfoot

 

You referred to: 

"If you feel inclined to add a WIP under SHIPS, PLEASE DO!  I think we would all be impressed with the results. Your quest for knowledge on this endeavor is "catching". As you can see, I have become addicted to this quest too."

Is the "WIP" "SHIPS" forum you are referring to the Modeling Subjects?

Do they have a limit on pictures you can upload or do you need to link them to some other site?

 

• This  Monitor topic  is under General Modeling Discussion

 To post your building activity for this or any topic of a specific nature regarding ships, like your USS Monitor "Build",  you should create a new Topic under Ships.

That is coming along very nicely.

Thanks for posting the updates.

     Jim.

And, here is what it looks like with the turret mounted on the deck with its cutout.

You need to link your photo files from another site. The links show up as the image itself though.

Here is the main bulkhead with the turret drive installed.  It includes the gear train that turns the turret, on back side the supports for the turret, and the two donkey steam engines that powered it.

The kit I am building is the Cotttage Industry Model one.  Mainly bought it for all the exterior detail it has molded into hull, deck and turret.  

I figured the engine room floor would be all metal since it needed to be fire proof in there but I thought they would paint it the usual black.  But I see where in the Paper model he used blue for the floor.  That would give a little color into the model.

You referred to: 

"If you feel inclined to add a WIP under SHIPS, PLEASE DO!  I think we would all be impressed with the results. Your quest for knowledge on this endeavor is "catching". As you can see, I have become addicted to this quest too."

Is the "WIP" "SHIPS" forum you are referring to the Modeling Subjects?

Do they have a limit on pictures you can upload or do you need to link them to some other site?

Yes, Research seems to never end.

RE: "The plans I have for the exterior of the ship have 8 light holes on the back deck and 14 on the front deck."

The 8 on the back deck are the Coal chutes or shuttles. These are larger openings than the Deck "Dead Lights" or port holes.  There is also the Ash removal hatch just behind the port Smoke stack which is the same size opening as the coal chutes. (Some additonla info: There was a Crane added over that area to assist with the ash removal.)

         I like the Deck dead lights" similar to the Cottage 1/96 kit. Pretty sure your right, the new pilot house added in the summer of 1862 covered up 4 of the deck "dead-lights or port holes" that were to either side of the original Pilot house.   Some of the  original plans are misleading, seeming to show only 9. My Micro-Mir 1/144 kit is getting 12 Deck "Dead Lights".

  I have a correction to my earlier post. That 1/100 paper kit is correct on the engine room floor color.  i.e.: "...it still had blue pigment visible but also ... it had the raised, diamond pattern of a non-skid surface."

Too bad there are no photos of the Monitor after the BIG refit in October. That would have helped with modeling the exterior. I understood there was iron shielding added around the top of the turret to protect the crew though.

    Those 1/100 paper plans are looking better and better the more I dig. 

I bought the paper model, mostly to get access to all the detail that he had.  There are very good drawings in his pdf for the engine, condensor, fans, etc.  Also, a very good depection of the the crew and captain's quarters.

Painting the interior is always a problem.  The ship looks better with some contrasting colors but the reality is that any part of the ship interior that would get coal dust on it or was working metal parts which needed oil and grease were painted black.  Everything else was painted an off white to maximize lighting.  Probably some wood trim in the Officer's quarters to show a little class but otherwise the interior is a mix of black and white.

The plans it have for the exterior of the ship have 8 light holes on the back deck and 14 on the front deck.  The larger pilot house would cover up four of these.  It is possible they added some when they made that change though but I haven't seen any documentation of that.  I think everyone used a different layout.  The plans I purchased had one, the Cottage kit has another, and the paper model has a different variation as well.

The turrent has two hatches on each side but it looks like from what documentation I have found that the deck under the turret was a larger single openning giving access to both hatches if they were lined up with it.  It could have handled two ladders or they could have left the ladder only to one hatch and used the others form moving bulky items up to the turret.  I'll have to look more at how that configuration looks and could function.

I found good documentation on the gears although for 3D printing them I took some "artistic" license with the smaller gears so they wouldn't be to small.  The thing I lacked that the paper model made clearer was how the donkey engines were connected to drive those gears.

Yes, he was closly involved with the NOAA folks around 2005.

I have that card model. Even if you don't build it, the learning experience makes it a worthwhile investment.

I think he got the engine room deck color and design wrong but otherwise it is darn impressive.  He did miss the Turret roof consisting of 16 iron plates with the center 6 having  perforations for air and light but that info may have been provided after he made his kit.

Sold here:

https://ecardmodels.com/product/1-100-u-s-s-monitor-paper-model

Did you get to the Turret supports and gears?  It explains a lot. 

  He is showing 2 Ladders to the wardroom.  I had a drawing that showed the same but I was unsure of the second hatch.  I thought only 1 hatch was mentioned in the various letters and reports about the sinking.  I will have to do some re-reading.  Might be all the models of the Monitor depicting post-refit are missing a hatch.

   Jim.

EDIT:

 He does show 2 versions, a March 9th 1862, and a July 1862.  I think he could have added the  "As-Sunk" version after the October 1862 re-fit.  Note that 4 of the dead lights should get covered by the new armored Pilot house. The description for the kit does call it a "Fictitious Redition" but I find it to be very accurate. If interested, take a look at the existing "good" resin kits of the Monitor, (Verlinden, Flagship, Cottage), and count the deck 'Dead lights".  Not much of a consensus.  I am using 12 on my Micro-Mir US Monitor kit. Wanted to use 16 but can't prove it.  (Micro-Mir only put 9 dead-light markings on the deck and left off all the hatches.)

Whoever did the research for the Paper Model of the Monitor did an exceptional job of it.  I bought the kit, which is only about $15, just to get the diagrams.  It looks like they drew isometric drawings for amost every piece of equipment in the ship.  Even modeled the structural supports under the floors and for the deck.  I'll probably use it to make some of the internals that might be to difficult to do in Fusion 360.  Since it is done at 1/100th scale the parts should easily fit into the model.

I meant to add a link to a paper model of the Monitor that was to be made available as 1/72 or 1/100. 

This model has the entire interior included.  It is said to be accurate based on review with the NOAA/Monitor Center.

The images on this site are quite interesting.

 You will have to become a member to see the link but it is worth it.

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/ships-watercraft/35585-1-100-uss-monitor.html

 Another wip of the 1/100 is here:

http://www.papermodelers.com/forum/ships-watercraft/45222-uss-monitor-1-100-a.html?highlight=monitor

(Again, you will need to be a member.)

   Jim.

 Edit: The advertisment for the kit looks like this:

(Art work:  Fred R. Dressler)

I neglected to add in a link for a very well done review of the Sinking of the USS Monitor.  It has descriptions of some of the changes during the re-fit in October 1862 including raising of the main deck by 3 feet in the wardroom area.

The link:  https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Period-Photograph-of-USS-Monitor-Turret-with-Pilot-House-with-Casemate-Forward-Image_fig4_272145390

Halfway down the page you will see this:

A Forensic Investigation of the Sinking of USS Monitor Using Modern Naval Architecture Tools and Technologies

There is a Button to download or read the entire text of the investigation.

     Nino.

Lightfoot

Nino: What did they say about the roof? I have multiple references giving the roof flooring as iron bars, triangular iron bars (in Erickson's original drawings), and railroad tracks (which I favor). ..."

My response from the Mariners folks to that very question:

Hi Jim,

The outer roof of the turret consists of 14 plates with the central 6 perforated; under that, is railroad track followed by large wrought iron beam.

https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/uss-monitor-turret-51c24ab1647646c0b820767dfc892aea

 

 

My notes are anotated on the Monitor Centers 3D rendering above.

                   (Image Provided  by Sketchfab.com)

(The hatches did slide on the depicted rails, to the Rear not to the Center.)

 

 

Here is the actual make-up of the Turret roof: 

(The hatch openings are conjecture on this older rendering)

 ( An update to the drawing above... The right rear hatch in the Turret deck was the only one that accessed the lower deck. The turret had to be turned to line up with the "hatch access" below.)

 

 

I had known about the Iron plate perforated roof but had no proof till they confirmed it.  The one thing I did not ask is whether this roof is due to the refit after the March 9th 1862 battle or was it always like this.

      Those railroad type rails were listed as on 6 inch centers.  Placed upside down with the largest surface to walk on, I suspect the space between the rails may have been only 2 inches so they could have been the roof on the day of the battle and the iron plates with the Perforations may have been added during the refit with the Pilot house and Stack changes.

 

     I would not doubt that a wood slat deck could have been intended for the roof to lay on top of the 40 (Or 41?) iron rails instead of the iron perforated plates but the Monitor had to get to Hampton Roads ASAP and I bet a lot of stuff was not done.

 

 one other thing...

    Heck, talk about a rush job....they only had bilge pumps in the stern so a "Bilge Keel" was made part of the hull bottom so that water in the bilge could flow from the bow to the stern. All the models of the Monitor leave that "curved" hull protrusion out.

 

Those plans can be downloaded from here:

https://archive.org/details/drawingsofussmon00pete

 

Several formats are available.

 

   Jim.

 

It's probably correct to think of the movement of the turret as a way to choose what angle to the direction of travel the engagement would be made at. Sort of like the centrally mounted large guns on Kearsarge and Alabama.

Not a set up where the ship could move it's fire to multiple targets.

I'm guessing here.

Pretty sure you must have come across this video of a " Monitor engine".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWn8gQ9Ykpk

And the real one: https://www.dailypress.com/resizer/0Kk16l4KUm7EGBAwQcg70dkY6JM=/800x534/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/6PFQ3MA74ZBMLPFUJJ7ICFRI54.1

You might want to hop onto Facebook as the Mariners Museum folks have been answering my questions on Turret roof details. Perhaps you can post a querry about rotating that turret. 

https://www.facebook.com/marinersmuseum

   Jim.

Thanks Nino, that is a much better resolution than I have on other drawings.  A lot more detail added too.  Actually shows how the rudder is connected to steering.  That has been my trouble with published drawings.  They are all low resolution scans of the originials.  In Peterkin's Catalog of drawings he sometimes describes things in the drawings that you can't see but it is like they say "a picture is worth a thousands word".  But I do wish these people believed in adding scales to legend so you can measure things in the drawing. In the Catalog's reproductions they say what the scale is (like 1" = 1') but because it is a reduced reproduction it is meaningless.

Better (??), Larger picture of side view.   Maybe this resolution can help.

 It does appear they left off much of the mechanism in this drawing.  At least what is there is said to be from measurements of the actual ship.

Click on it to see the larger pic.

   Jim.

 P.S.  How 'bout that Anchor mechanism!

The last picture shows the lift mechanism which was a wedge with a bolt to move it in and out.  It could lift the turret about 1-3/4".  I contacted the person who made the kit.  What he labeled in his construction drawings as the lift mechanism was really the controls for engaging the the gears that turn the turret.

Nino is right on the deck althought the top armor plate may go all the way to the edge.  The wood under deck didn't.

When the ship wan't in battle the turret sat down in a recess groove to make it water tight.  But it couldn't move in that position.

Trying now to better define the pedistal the 9" pipe with the wedge under it is sitting on and how it connects into the center bulkhead.  It isn't clear in the picture above.  It shows it in the center of the buldhead but I haven't found a crossection looking form the side of the ship that I have confidence is correct.  Some show it cut flat on the bulkhead side.

Just an FYI...

One more thing regarding the turret. As the ship moved through the water it would rock side to side and front and back. This movement would cause the turret to move laterally. I don't think that the central shaft would be strong enough the keep the turret from sliding off of the main deck. Once the heavy turret developed lateral momentum it could snap the central shaft. If you look at the cross section of the turret at the top of this post it looks like  the bearing located under the exterior wall of the turret is recessed below the top surface of the deck. That recess would prevent any lateral movement of the turret. A simple yet ingenious solution.

As for the boiler, just a thought. With the room pressurized, the air is controlled through a register in the boiler front, probably located in the coal door, where they shovelled in the coal. That way, they would not get a flare back through the register or the door when they opened the plate to feed. Air flow would be fairly consistant.

The process would be something like 'open the register all the way then open the feed door, feed in coal, close door, then adjust register for correct burn.'

From the drawing I've seen, the boiler appears to be a fire-tube unit rather than a water-tube, So we are talking low pressure, saturated steam.

Like I said, just a thought, having operated boilers in the past. 

Some of the images enlarge and "I suppose" all can be copied using a "Screenshot".

(Quality is good as I can count the holes in the upper deck perforations.)

Too bad they did not recover the rotating mechanism or at least a few gears.

    Nino (Jim)