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Why so many different tools?

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  • Member since
    June 2003
Posted by Jammer on Tuesday, February 2, 2021 9:56 AM

rev_barabbas

 I didn't mention them in my original comment, but brush is only one way of laying down paint. Another cheap option for a good finish is rattle cans.

I only switched to airbrushing 2 years ago and my results didn't get much better than a rattle can until I practiced enough and put in the effort to learn how to use my airbrush. By no means is airbrushing "difficult". It's just a skill you acquire through a lot of practice. 

 

 
To follow up on the above, the principles of using an airbrush and rattle can are basically the same; both are paint being propelled onto the model by an air source and you start painting each pass off the model and finish off the model.
 
Like the Rev, I only recently switched from rattle cans to an airbrush.  I usually only used a rattle can for gloss paints on the NASCAR kits I built and flat white for larger space and science fiction kits.  I got fairly decent finishes using a rattlecan on the race cars that I built and good coverage on the sci-fi/space kits.  I still use a rattlecan for odd Duplicolor automotive colors and some priming since I don't want to try to decant and I think the finish is similar to what I would get with an airbrush.
  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by rev_barabbas on Tuesday, February 2, 2021 8:55 AM

Don Stauffer
 

I could probably get by if I had to without an airbrush if all I used were flat paints.  But I maintain doing a brushmark-less good gloss paint job is even harder than learning to use an airbrush well.  I consider myself competent on an airbrush, but my freehand gloss paints certainly do not have the master's touch.

 

I didn't mention them in my original comment, but brush is only one way of laying down paint. Another cheap option for a good finish is rattle cans.

I only switched to airbrushing 2 years ago and my results didn't get much better than a rattle can until I practiced enough and put in the effort to learn how to use my airbrush. By no means is airbrushing "difficult". It's just a skill you acquire through a lot of practice. 

-- rev_barabbas --

Keep going, don't quit.

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by rev_barabbas on Tuesday, February 2, 2021 8:44 AM

plasticjunkie

  Agree with Don. And by the way, you don’t need to be a ‘savant’ to operate an air brush. Like any other tool or technique, it requires practice, experimentation and patience.

I didn't say that. I said unless you're a savant you will suck starting out, hence...practice. My entire comment was right there in your quote. My main thing was that it's a big purchase for someone starting out...especially when they're already overwhelmed by the tools available to them. That was the entire point of my comment about the airbrush, it's an expensive purchase and you don't "need" it unless you feel you need it to progress.  

-- rev_barabbas --

Keep going, don't quit.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, February 2, 2021 8:42 AM

Since this thread has been on airbrushing for awhile, I thought I would recommend checking out the Painting and Airbrushing forum.  This FSM forum is a ways down in the list of forums, but definitely recommended for everyone who paints their models.  For some reason I cannot seem to paste a link- you'll have to find the treasure on your own.

A frequent thread in this forum is someone asking what kind of airbrush or compressor they ought to buy.  Such threads never fail to trigger recommendations from some real airbrush gurus.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Tuesday, February 2, 2021 7:23 AM

Don Stauffer

 

 

 

 

 
rev_barabbas

I feel like I should have edited my original comment, but here goes...

99% of the youtubers use an airbrush. You don't need it. At least, not until you feel you can't progress without one. It's a big purchase, you need a compressor and a regulator, hoses, thinners, spray hood...etc, etc. You can accomplish very stunning results using just a rattle can or a delicate hand and a thinned paint on a brush.

Plus, unless you're a savant, you'll suck at airbrushing at first. It took me the better part of a year to get decent at controlling my own airbrush. It's the type of tool that you only want to get if you're serious about models and want to dedicate the time to learn it. 

 

 

 

I could probably get by if I had to without an airbrush if all I used were flat paints.  But I maintain doing a brushmark-less good gloss paint job is even harder than learning to use an airbrush well.  I consider myself competent on an airbrush, but my freehand gloss paints certainly do not have the master's touch.

 

 

Don Stauffer

 

 

 

 

 
rev_barabbas

I feel like I should have edited my original comment, but here goes...

99% of the youtubers use an airbrush. You don't need it. At least, not until you feel you can't progress without one. It's a big purchase, you need a compressor and a regulator, hoses, thinners, spray hood...etc, etc. You can accomplish very stunning results using just a rattle can or a delicate hand and a thinned paint on a brush.

Plus, unless you're a savant, you'll suck at airbrushing at first. It took me the better part of a year to get decent at controlling my own airbrush. It's the type of tool that you only want to get if you're serious about models and want to dedicate the time to learn it. 

 

 

 

I could probably get by if I had to without an airbrush if all I used were flat paints.  But I maintain doing a brushmark-less good gloss paint job is even harder than learning to use an airbrush well.  I consider myself competent on an airbrush, but my freehand gloss paints certainly do not have the master's touch.

 

 

Agree with Don. And by the way, you don’t need to be a ‘savant’ to operate an air brush. Like any other tool or technique, it requires practice, experimentation and patience. The work achieved from using an air brush can be amazing and will make one a better happier modeler. I bought my first ab back in the mid 1970s and never looked back. I was amazed at what effects I was able to get with a simple Badger that I still have 45 years later. I recently got a Sotar and the tight freehand lines I get on a 1/72 German mottling scheme is just amazing.

Again, start with the basics and progress to supplies as needed.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Friday, January 29, 2021 7:19 AM

I have a sewing needle with the eye cut like a fork sitting within arms reach.  I have both V 2 and V 3 Glue Loopers sitting in a cup, also within arms reach.  But what I reach for when applying a spot of CA is a plain old wooden toothpick.  Grocery store item. 

But what I do like to use when I need to apply a bead of CA along a joint or length of ship railing is spout made of stretched Delrin tubing.   Made just like stretching Sprue, but the hole inside the tube remains.   The Delrin tube I used is from an RC aircraft control link sheath.  

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Thursday, January 28, 2021 10:05 PM

I bought this set over a year ago , still on the first one . it's gone black been burnt off that many times , cbaltrin .

 

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • From: Land of Lakes
Posted by cbaltrin on Thursday, January 28, 2021 6:41 PM

Interesting. I'll stick with stretched sprue though :-)

steve5

if you want to unclog a CA applicator , just use a lighter . burns right off .

 

On the Bench: Too Much

  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by steve5 on Thursday, January 28, 2021 6:12 PM

if you want to unclog a CA applicator , just use a lighter . burns right off .

 

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Thursday, January 28, 2021 5:29 PM

cbaltrin
Now, I just use stretched sprue--Best CA applicator I have found.

Dry Angel Hair pasta or Spaghetti work well too, depending on how small a bead you need.  When done, just break off the part you used into the trash and you have a fresh applicator and won't have anything with CA on it hanging around to accidentally come into contact with.  I use it mostly for filling seams on the insides of intakes with CA.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • From: Land of Lakes
Posted by cbaltrin on Thursday, January 28, 2021 4:53 PM

Noting that the original poster appears, by his handle, to be a teenager, I have to say ,  I can understand where he is coming from. When I was a teenager, my model toolbox consited of the following:

1 xacto kife.

2 Maybe 4 paint brushes (2 of which were probably testors nylon kind)

3 Tube of glue.

4 Paasche VL airbrush which I ran off my dad's ancient compressor (that had no regulator BTW).

5 Various testors and model paster enamel paints.

 

Small wonder I became good at starting kits but not so good at completing them...

On the Bench: Too Much

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • From: Land of Lakes
Posted by cbaltrin on Thursday, January 28, 2021 4:43 PM

This is interesting to me as years ago I resolved to spend less on kits and more on tools (let me qualify that by stating that I build mostly older kits -- not the modern shake and bake stuff).

Some tools are gimics for sure. For example,  I bought a CA Glue applicator years ago, turns out it was just a sewing needle cut off half way up the 'eye' to create a small 'fork' at the end to theoretically hold a small amount of glue. It never worked great and was always clogged with dry glue anyway.  Now, I just use stretched sprue--Best CA applicator I have found.

On the other hand, I spent most of my modeling journey just using the old #11 xacto blade. Now I have Xacto #11, xacto chisel blade, a curved scapel and a regular scalpel blade. I can never go back to just a #11 blade now.  

Last comment: I don't know where this idea comes from that an airbrush is hard to learn/master? It's really not a complicated tool at all.

On the Bench: Too Much

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 2:05 PM

Speaking only for myself, it's because I'm half nuts to begin with and just love tools and gadgets.......a dangerous combination!

I take no offense from your question at all, I think it is perfectly reasonable! Yes

  • Member since
    July 2014
Posted by modelcrazy on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 1:26 PM

A lot of input here. If you watch Plasmo (I do and still learn from him) You'll see some of his vis showcase on how to make your own tools. Do you need them, no. As most of us, I started out with a tube of glue (1965) and grew my tools over years and years of collecting. Plasmo and many of the other "professional" YouTube modlers are given much of what they have as advertisments. The manufactures figure, rightly, that we who watch will see the ease at which the spotlighted modlers build or paint with their new shinny tools and will want said shinny tool. It is true that after watching sain new shinny tool, I have myself Googled the name and price. Sometimes I get it and sometimes I don't.

A lot of my "toolbox" is also made up of regular household items. Nail files, clipers, old toothbrushes, sizzors ETC. are all fine additions. You may also run across items you find in your everyday life. Tweezers, old dental picks, silly putty, toothpicks, cotton swabs, wire, solder.....

If you watch Plasmo then you will see a demonstration (replication) of his first kit. He explains that when he started all he had was oil paint and a brush. My paint collection has grown over the years as I, who have been building for 55 years now, still can't find a paint I like. I will usually buy a bottle or two for an upcoming build and voila! In no time a paint collection. As has been stated, don't worry about air brushes fancy paint brushes and the like, just enjoy, look through the forums, FSM as well as others. Don't be discouraged or turned away from the hobby by someone elses beautiful seemingly impossable to learn skill and masterpiece, it will come..in time. Remember, most of us have been building since the 50's, 60's, or 70's and are still learning. David Danek (Plasmo) is a phenom, and it comes naturally to him.

Steve

Building a kit from your stash is like cutting a head off a Hydra, two more take it's place.

 

 

http://www.spamodeler.com/forum/

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 1:20 PM

 

 

 

rev_barabbas

I feel like I should have edited my original comment, but here goes...

99% of the youtubers use an airbrush. You don't need it. At least, not until you feel you can't progress without one. It's a big purchase, you need a compressor and a regulator, hoses, thinners, spray hood...etc, etc. You can accomplish very stunning results using just a rattle can or a delicate hand and a thinned paint on a brush.

Plus, unless you're a savant, you'll suck at airbrushing at first. It took me the better part of a year to get decent at controlling my own airbrush. It's the type of tool that you only want to get if you're serious about models and want to dedicate the time to learn it. 

 

I could probably get by if I had to without an airbrush if all I used were flat paints.  But I maintain doing a brushmark-less good gloss paint job is even harder than learning to use an airbrush well.  I consider myself competent on an airbrush, but my freehand gloss paints certainly do not have the master's touch.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 12:14 PM

GMorrison

Nail clippers???

Nah, just twist the parts off the sprue...

...and use Duco Household Cement!

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 10:40 PM

Nail clippers???

Nah, just twist the parts off the sprue.

Later I did "borrow" my father's SAK.

Old habits are hard to break.

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 9:59 PM

It's an interesting question and I appreciate the post.  When I think back when I was building kits as a young man you had your moms tweezers, your sisters nail clippers and   nail file and a dozen or so testors/pactra paint bottles and a couple rattle cans - maybe some nail polish.  The choices at the 5 and dime (look that one up lol) were limited so you built your kits with what  was available.   Fast forward to the OPs question and it must be overwhelming.  For that matter, I took 3 or 4 years off a few years back and when I returned I had to figure out all the new manufacturers of kits, paints, supplies, after market stuff etc. 

It's awesome that the industry has answered the call with so many options, but I see where you're coming from.  
And defining 'need' in our hobby is somewhat subjective. Lol

Thanks,

John

fox
  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Narvon, Pa.
Posted by fox on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 9:43 PM

All of the above info is great info. It was all gathered over years of experiance building models by those who posted it. Sit back, relax and work with the tools and paints of your choice. You will pick up more info and tips to help you build better as you go. You will use the tools of your choice because it's your hobby. You don't have to use the tools others use, unless you want to. You only have to please yourself.

Enjoy the hobby.

Jim Captain

Stay Safe.

 Main WIP: 

   On the Bench: Artesania Latina  (aka) Artists in the Latrine 1/75 Bluenose II

I keep hitting "escape", but I'm still here.

  • Member since
    April 2013
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 5:19 PM

Teenage Modeler

Sorry if I made you angry, this was meant to be a curious question, not a rant.

 

Curiousity is a good trait to display.  It should be rewarded, so just know that I'm not ranting, either.

Some of us have gadgets to open stuck paint jars because we've been building since we were kids and we've grown into old men. Arthritis, nerve damage, neurological issues, and the general wear-and-tear of time makes these "unnecessary" tools a blessing to those who need them. If you've ever had a square bottle of Testors explode in your hand when the vice-grip pliers came into play or if you've ever nearly severed a finger using a dull hobby knife to pry off a crusty Pactra cap, those gadgets could have potentially saved you from learning those hard lessons about how to properly store your paint so stuck lids aren't a concern to begin with.

Why do I have purposed scribers and gravers? So I don't have to use the back of my hobby knife. When I do that, I wind up with lines just as wide as the tip of the knife, which is often far out of scale; the lines tend to be a bit on the rough side because the tip likes to skip as it catches and grabs at the plastic; the knife has a hard time rendering circles and ovals; and I sometimes have to deal with the tip breaking off the blade and embedding itself in the plastic.  With my scriber, I cut smooth, clean curls of plastic, which leaves little or no clean-up;: I have finer control over the width and depth of the lines; and it can handle shapes such as ovals and circles with far greater ease than the knife. It's simply the better tool for fine details.

Why do I have a lot of different brushes in different sizes? I have a lot of reasons for having an assortment of brushes. For instance, I have a set reserved specifically for metallic paints. There is another set reserved for working with pigments and weathering powders and others reserved for use with glues or solvents. There's a big mix of sizes, because every size fits a specific job or function. Beats the hell out of using the square bristle nylon brushes I used as a kid for every job at the bench.

Why all the paint? Depends on the effect I want. For instance, I prefer enamels for metallic effects, where I prefer to use acrylics for cloth and skin tones. I use artists oils for washes and weathering applications.  Because I literally use only a few drops of paint at a time, there are quite a few bottles of different paint sitting on my shelf, but that's a bit of a blessing in its own way. The closest hobby shop is 250 miles down the road, so there are no quick trips to get more.

As you progress in the hobby, you'll find the tools that make your time at the bench a little easier and perhaps even a little more rewarding. In the end, whatever tools make their way onto your bench will serve your purposes in a way that only you can every really appreciate. They will fit your abilities, techniques, and preferences, as well as the job you have at hand.

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 3:26 PM

And as Scott Glen said in "Sucker Punch", "One more thing..."

Look for any clubs in your area, and join one.  Even with the lockdowns, the human interaction is invaluable.  You cannot get that from YouTube.  If you can see other people's work, and show yours, and talk about it, you will get a lot of good information, advice, and comments.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 3:24 PM

To follow on the others' comments...

You don't need all those tools.  There are threads here in the forum that talk about the basic tool kit, and we've all offered our opinions.  Starting out, you're probably best off getting yourself a Nr 11 hobby knife, a razor saw, a pair of tweezers, some fine grits of sandpaper, a small file or emery boards, and some rubber bands.  The tweezers you can get in the cosmetics section of a grocery store, or drug store.  While you're there, you could pick up a cuticle cutter and use that to remove parts from the sprues.

You don't all those paints, either.  Get yourself some basic colors.

An airbrush is useful, and if you use one and get comfortable, you can achieve great finishes.  But to start, you might just use rattlecans and practice applying light coats, to learn how to have a gentle touch.  Work your way up.

Keep it simple, and remember that the way to improve is to build, and to practice.  No tool will replace the experience you acquire as you build.

And remember that every one of us here, and throughout the hobby, has made, and continues to make mistakes.  That's how we learn, and you never stop learning.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by rev_barabbas on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 3:06 PM

I feel like I should have edited my original comment, but here goes...

99% of the youtubers use an airbrush. You don't need it. At least, not until you feel you can't progress without one. It's a big purchase, you need a compressor and a regulator, hoses, thinners, spray hood...etc, etc. You can accomplish very stunning results using just a rattle can or a delicate hand and a thinned paint on a brush.

Plus, unless you're a savant, you'll suck at airbrushing at first. It took me the better part of a year to get decent at controlling my own airbrush. It's the type of tool that you only want to get if you're serious about models and want to dedicate the time to learn it. 

-- rev_barabbas --

Keep going, don't quit.

  • Member since
    June 2014
Posted by bluenote on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 2:50 PM

I have quite a few tools I guess, but I never have more than 1 of anything.  I mean, I have 1 sprue cutter (Tamiya brand).  I have a few kinds of tweezers, but they each are for different applications (one for decals, one angled, etc).  

I see a lot of Youtubers with a dozen of different sprue cutters, etc.  It's not for me, but everyone is different.  

I only stick to Tamiya for most of my tools and paints, glues, etc.  Their quality is top notch, and I don't need anything else.  

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Northeast WA State
Posted by armornut on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 2:47 PM

    Essentials...1 #11 hobby blade,  2. sprue cutters, don't scrimp on these, 3. sanding grits and sticks, cheap. 4. glue, experiment with a few to find what you like then run with it.

      A person of average smarts really can improvise tools, building supplies, and other materials from stuff just laying around and often they work better than the $20 tool.

     Most important HAVE FUN!

we're modelers it's what we do

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 2:43 PM

You'll see,you don't buy all those tools and paint all at once,they accumulate over time.Its like any carpenter,plumber,electricians when starting out,you have the basics,then over time you will see something that makes your job easier and pick one up here and there and before you realize you have a full arsenal.

Same thing with paint,you buy paints for that American Sherman,oh I need OD,and black and brown,next your building a Tiger,I need yellow,red,and olive,and it goes on.

Then,I need a thick brush from big areas,a tiny one for faces and details,a medium one for other things.

Get the picture,don't even mention weathering products,washes,filters,pigments,and so forth.

But really,it all depends on how far you want yo take your hobby.

  • Member since
    January 2021
Posted by rev_barabbas on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 2:34 PM

Adding onto my previous comment...glue / cement...

I would suggest using a thin cement for most things. Cement actually melts the plastic slightly and allows the parts to "weld" together. They actually become fused together and the cement evaporates. For small things or things that might snap, cyanoacrylate (CA, or "super glue") is a good option. This just creates a mechanical bond between two surfaces, the glue itself is what's holding them together.

Eventually you'll learn your preferences with experience and experimentation. I use Tamiya Extra Thin cement, but you might prefer a thicker cement from testors, or a thin cement from another brand. For CA, just buy the cheapest one at first, they're all pretty much the same except the thickness and curing time. To accelerate CA bonding you need moisture, not more glue. Use it sparingly and spray a little distilled water on the bonding area and it'll start to hold in seconds.

DO NOT use CA glue on clear parts. The vapors will make the clear parts foggy. You can actually use elmers glue for clear parts and it works great. 

-- rev_barabbas --

Keep going, don't quit.

  • Member since
    May 2020
  • From: North East of England
Posted by Hutch6390 on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 2:32 PM

You can achieve a lot with just a few tools - if you have a decent hobby knife, a few sanding sticks (or sandpaper) of different grades, a pair of tweezers, those will meet your basic needs.  However, as you develop in the hobby you will learn that specialised tools perform specific jobs better than making do with something more basic.  For example, a hobby knife can be used to re-scribe panel lines, but it can be hard to control precisely, and you tend to get a steep-sided, narrow line, usually with the displaced plastic sticking up on the edges at the top.  A purpose-designed scriber is easier to use for this, and produces a better result that requires little or no clean-up.  Drilling tiny holes is much easier with a pin vice than twiddling the drill-bit between your fingers.  And, as for brushes, imagine painting a large model with a size 00 brush - you'd be there for days!

Adding to your tool collection is a part of the hobby - start with the basics & slowly add those tools you identify a need for, as and when it happens.  Don't buy something just because you've seen it on some video - make sure you really need it and can justify the cost.  Start small & grow with your abilities.

Vell, Zaphod's just zis guy, you know?

   

TakkaTakkaTakkaTakkaTakkaTakka

 

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Denver
Posted by tankboy51 on Tuesday, January 26, 2021 2:17 PM

The various paint colors are for those who don't like to mix colors, like me.  There are hundreds, or more colors that can be used.  The colors of the German air force in WW2 for example.  And simple colors like Olive Drab or German Dark yellow can drive you nuts if you so like. Cars are another matter.  Brushes are another matter. Modelers may need a variety of  for many different tasks.  When you really get into this hobby you can go both ways on how much you wish to go.  I like to simplify but it's nice use stuff when needed.  I get by with good hobby knife, sprue cutters,  flex e file, sanding paper, liquid plastic glue, and some other stuff.  Others will have other better ideas.  

 

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