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What have the department stores done to all the models?

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:46 AM
everything has gone to the internet now...instead of getting in the car going to the LHS and picking something up then drive back home.....wheres the fun in that. grant it its alot easier but everytime i goto the hobbystore i have a blast even if its and hour and a half away.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:05 AM
This is an interesting topic. I hope I may be forgiven if I ramble on a little about it.

Like lots of other Olde Phogey model builders (I'm 54 years old, and built my first model in 1956), I'm troubled by the current state of the hobby. The local hobby shop seems to be disappearing from the landscape, the prices are going through the roof, and - most disturbingly of all - the number of young people getting into the hobby seems to be shrinking all the time. When I was in college, in the late 1970s, I had a job in a hobby shop in Columbus, Ohio. At least half the customers were kids. A couple of weeks ago I had a conversation with a friend who runs an excellent hobby shop in Newport News, Virginia. I asked him how many of his regular customers were kids. He laughed bitterly and said "zero."

There are, of course, lots of reasons for this. Young people today are offered all sorts of activities that provide short-term gratification - movies, videos, computer games, etc. We probably shouldn't be surprised that a hobby requiring time, and the development of manual skills, isn't as popular as it used to be.

Another problem is the current generation's declining interest in history. (My wife and I are both history teachers; we can provide plenty of evidence.) When I was in grade school, World War II was a common topic of conversation. My father, and the fathers of all the kids in my elementary school, told us stories about the war. The theaters and TV were full of war movies and documetaries. Every self-respecting sixth-grade boy, and some of the girls, could tell a P-51 from an ME-109. We played with toy soldiers, and with history-related board games.

Today, it being the beginning of the semester, I handed out a survey to the students in my college-level U.S. military history course. Most of the students - most of them - couldn't tell me the year in which the Civil War ended. Several couldn't name two countries the U.S. was fighting in World War II. (All of them did know what Pearl Harbor was. Thank you Hollywood.) Most modeling subjects (the big exceptions of course being car models) have something to do with history. It's not surprising that kids who aren't interested in history aren't interested in models.

There's another side to the story. Over the past twenty years or so, though it's happened so gradually that many of us may not have noticed, the pricing structure in the plastic kit industry has changed fundamentally. When I was in elementary school, a dollar would buy a 1/72-scale fighter from Revell or Airfix, a tube of Testor's glue, and a couple of bottles of paint. When I was working in that hobby shop, twenty years later, it was still possible to find a model that cost a dollar - and five dollars was enough to buy a weekend's worth of modeling activity. When I built my first Revell Cutty Sark it was, at $10.00, the most expensive plastic kit on the market. Nowadays, a person who doesn't have $10.00 to spend might as well not set foot in a hobby shop. The prices of plastic kits have gone up considerably faster than inflation. The hobby has ceased to cater to kids with pocket money; the manufacturers are catering to adults.

One result of all this, let it be noted, is that the quality of the typical plastic kit has gone up tremendously. I can remember when a 1/72 kit with scribed detail was extremely unusual, and detailed wheel well interiors in any scale were completely unknown. In the late 1970s the magazine articles about ship models took it for granted that to represent a radar screen or a guardrail on 1/700 scale was impossible. And if you suggested the possibility that somebody would release a 1/48 Vindicator, with extensive cockpit detail, countersunk panel lines, etc., you would have been labeled certifiably nuts.

We are, I suspect, in the midst of what will be seen in the future as a golden age of scale modeling. The proliferation of cottage industry manufacturers, aftermarket parts, imported kits, specialized tools, specially-mixed paints by the hundreds, and all the other goodies that we take for granted has turned the hobby into something fundamentally different than it was fifty years ago. With the Internet and mail order to help them, the manufacturers are giving us an array of products that were, quite literally, unimagineable even twenty years ago.

I do worry, though, about the price we're paying for all that wondrous stuff. With the demise of the local hobby shop, and the lack of new blood in the form of kids taking up scale modeling, I have to wonder what the future will bring.

So much for the ramblings of a senile ship modeler. Sorry to have gone on so long.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    July 2005
  • From: Vancouver,Canada
Posted by clairnet_person on Friday, August 26, 2005 10:33 PM
All the Wal-Marts/ Toys-R-Us in my area used to have a ok selection of models and even some supplies by testors now it's all filled with BS

What gives?!Angry [:(!]
Current builds: Monogram P-40B Revell F-15E
  • Member since
    July 2013
Posted by DURR on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:26 AM
i liked the good old days
but look at toy r us and wally world they fill 1 isle with 6 toys no bog selection any more just junk and i am not just talking models.
but as far as lhs vs iternet
if your buying three or more kits at a wack internet is cool.
but if you are just getting one kit and you add 5-8 usd shipping go to the lhs he may get 3-4 bucks more out of you but no wait and you can see what your getting
  • Member since
    February 2003
Posted by Jim Barton on Monday, August 22, 2005 6:06 PM
Thank goodness I've got a couple of LHS's in the Phoenix area I go to. Sometimes on my way to Mother's house, I'll stop at Andy's Hobby Headquarters in Glendale--this is a relatively new place that's been around for maybe a year or so. They've got a nice selection of kits and tools and stuff. Then there's Hobby Depot in Tempe, not too far from Arizona State University. Sometimes Hobby Depot could stand to be a little more prompt with restocking but they're pretty good. Plus, if I go there in the early evening, I can also do dinner at Red Devil Pizza just fifty feet away!Dinner [dinner]

"Whaddya mean 'Who's flying the plane?!' Nobody's flying the plane!"

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 22, 2005 9:33 AM
Seems like we all have almost the same problem. Back then, I mean way back then, the department stores where I live used to sell models but now none of them does. Usually, they all sell the same brand so the last time, they were all selling Tamiya and no others. There is one now and they sell Revell but the kits they were selling was due to the closing down of a distributor and all stocks have to go. After that no more was coming in. I guess that they stopped selling was due to the distributorship but I feel it was more likely that modelling is not meant for the kids market anymore compared to 15 years ago. Just look at the prices of the new kits and see what I mean. Now is more for the adult market and frankly the prices drive me off as with a family to support, I have to think many times before I buy a kit but most probably I am not buying as I weigh between a need and a want. The needs for my family comes first than the want I have for an average model kit costing Rm100.00 (or USD26.00) in my country. Perhaps the manufacturers might want to review thier prices according to region to reduce the declining popularity of modelling as a hobby. Even the LHS stopped bringing in new kits and sell what current stocks they have.
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Nashotah, WI
Posted by Glamdring on Sunday, August 21, 2005 8:57 PM
AH, but it has been established that elsewhere in the world, like Japan, there is an abundance of model stores and the hobby is thriving. I think the problem is just a lack of interest in history and thus the hobby in America today.

I believe nothing short of making a kid complete a model kit in school with the hope it will catch their attention will change that.

Robert 

"I can't get ahead no matter how hard I try, I'm gettin' really good at barely gettin' by"

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Ohio
Posted by mikepowers on Sunday, August 21, 2005 2:19 AM
Hear ya tiger, I guess enjoy what you have while you have it.

Who knows where our hobby ends up.
  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Valley Spings, CA
Posted by Tigertankman on Sunday, August 21, 2005 12:17 AM
Lets just face it, our hobby is disappearing in the eyes of big companies such as those mentioned before, and unless there is a new scale or level of detail introduced by a major model kit company that would appeal to the majority of us modelers, (such as DML, but they only supply armor) model supplying department stores and even hobby shops will begin to disappear due to the decrease of sales because very few new kits of excellent quality are appearing in their warehouses, which means very few modelers will want to visit their stores if they own or have built every kit they carry, and that leads to poor profits, which means the store owners will not have enough money to keep their shops open, which ultimatley leads to the disappearance of all model kit and supply carrying stores.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Saturday, August 20, 2005 7:33 PM
Prior to Hobby Lobby opening here in Panama City, there was a small hobby shop in Callaway, about six miles from where I live. The problem was he was open only in the evenings and Saturday afternoon. I went there several times and he was never open. He finally closed up. What killed him was his operating hours. He probably had a day time job and ran the hobby shop on his off time, but it just wasn't convenient for the public. It could have made a go if his hours had been more reasonable.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Ohio
Posted by mikepowers on Saturday, August 20, 2005 9:38 AM
Dang jinithith2, don't hold back.
Deep breath.
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Thursday, August 18, 2005 7:21 PM
I remember the good old days when i could buy Monogram airplanes for a tad over a $1.00 at K-Mart of all places back in the 70's.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 18, 2005 2:10 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jinithith2

well, I have a hobby shop that is about 5 minutes walk from our house and about 30 minutes car ride,

Traffic must be horrendous where you live if it takes you 6 times longer to drive someplace than to walk there. I'd leave the car in the garage.
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: returning to the FSM forum after a hiatus
Posted by jinithith2 on Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:56 AM
well, I have a hobby shop that is about 5 minutes walk from our house and about 30 minutes car ride, but their priceing is suitable only to aliens and the devil,
and the owner's a damn fudging racist (unless he sees my big bucks) and I could go on forever!!!! (please do let me vent)
when I go with oddjob007, the owner's like "OH! HOW ARE YOU? HOW MAY I HELP YOU!?!?!" and all that crap and then he looks at me and looks back at oddjob with an expression that says "why did you bring this pile of dog Censored [censored] into my store?"
I recently had to order micro set and sol throught them and it's been about 3 months since I asked. wentever I go and ask, he says "well, all the distributors are out of it at the moment, come back later." all the distributors are out my *donkey*!

so I Squadron it or go to Michaels for my threatningly decreasing supply of models.
and honestly, they think it's just some TOYS! I just want to take my Uzi (if I had one) and pump their brains out with hot leadDisapprove [V]

now, our borders quit carrying modeling books from kalmbach.Boohoo [BH]

thank you for listening to my rant

ohyeah, and you have FULL agreement on the depart.stores thinning their supply of models and WalMart carries crap
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Ohio
Posted by mikepowers on Monday, August 15, 2005 8:44 PM
It will always be cool DaveJames.
As long as there is an interest in history, modeling will survive.
Support your LHS!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 15, 2005 6:51 PM
Yeah I remember the days when my local Long's Drugs had rows and rows of model kits, and just about every big Trek kit you can think of.

I think it comes down to the same thing that's plaguing the comic book industry--kids today have too many OTHER ways to kill time. Videogames, the internet, cell phones etc. Building models and collecting comic books just isn't cool anymore.
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Ohio
Posted by mikepowers on Monday, August 15, 2005 1:00 PM
Thats right Dday, it all cuts in to my modeling wants and needs.
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Ohio
Posted by mikepowers on Monday, August 15, 2005 12:58 PM
Wayne, I would wait to go to Hobby Lobby until they have there half off sale.
There due for one within the next couple of weeks.

I'll have to check the one out in Medina.

Also, not too far from Wings in Cleveland is another LHS called Hobby castle.
Its a hole in the wall but that makes it unique, right?
He actually has alot of stuff packed in to that little place.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 15, 2005 11:19 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon U

My 2 cents [2c] What we need to remember is that the LHS has much greater overheads (relatively speaking) than on-line shops. It is not that the LHS prices are through the roof for the same kit but that their other expenses have to be met. Believe me (as a small business owner myself) the LHS owner is unlikely to be getting rich at our expense!


Ditto to that, expenses like bills and rent and stuff.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Medina, Ohio
Posted by wayne baker on Monday, August 15, 2005 11:15 AM
Mike
There is a shop out in Medina on the square I will probably check out now and the Hobby Lobby is on the edge of Medina, on 42, towards Cleveland.

 I may get so drunk, I have to crawl home. But dammit, I'll crawl like a Marine.

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Ohio
Posted by mikepowers on Monday, August 15, 2005 10:19 AM
Wayne, the owner of Whistle Stop is trying to sell but she has been trying to do that for years.
A new hobby shop opened up on Portage Trail about a mile from Whislte Stop.
If you get to Portage Trail from Rt 8, turn left (west) its about a mile on the right.
Its small but there trying to make it work.

I found a Hobby Town USA in Strongsville Sunday, its a nice hobby shop that rates up there with WIngs in Cleveland.



  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Ohio
Posted by mikepowers on Monday, August 15, 2005 10:13 AM
I know I know, it just bugs me with these high prices because plastic is just a by product of used oil or something like that.
Heard that somewhere.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Medina, Ohio
Posted by wayne baker on Monday, August 15, 2005 8:37 AM
Mike
It was Miller's on Manchester Rd. They had kits, paint and R.C. stuff. And Whistle Stop on Front St. in the Falls will be going also.

 I may get so drunk, I have to crawl home. But dammit, I'll crawl like a Marine.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Monday, August 15, 2005 7:57 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mikepowers

I believe that to a degree, but I'm sure Hobby Lobby also has an overhead and they still have a 50% off sale once a month.
If they can sell kits for half off and still turn a proffit????
There getting these models at dirt cheap prices.
Its up to each individual LHS to determine how much to gouge the customer.
How much money is enough?



A large chain can afford to do loss leaders, selling at below cost to get you in the store and buy the cheapo and the full price accessories.

Certainly, everyone here should be savvy enough to know the MSRP of a kit. That should be the regular selling price and that is not gouging, it usually provides about 40% of the cost to the retailer. So a $50 model provides about $20 to the retailer, from which he has to pay his rent/mortgage, utilities, insurance, payroll, shrinkage (Read: theft and other damage) and take some money home to buy groceries.

However, a retailler selling above MSRP deserves derision and should be avoided. It's lile those guys on E-bay who set the opening bid at retail.

If there are clubs in the area, most retailers provide a % discount to members.

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Ohio
Posted by mikepowers on Monday, August 15, 2005 6:29 AM
I believe that to a degree, but I'm sure Hobby Lobby also has an overhead and they still have a 50% off sale once a month.
If they can sell kits for half off and still turn a proffit????
There getting these models at dirt cheap prices.
Its up to each individual LHS to determine how much to gouge the customer.
How much money is enough?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 15, 2005 6:12 AM
My 2 cents [2c] What we need to remember is that the LHS has much greater overheads (relatively speaking) than on-line shops. It is not that the LHS prices are through the roof for the same kit but that their other expenses have to be met. Believe me (as a small business owner myself) the LHS owner is unlikely to be getting rich at our expense!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 14, 2005 8:24 PM
I work at a LHS and from my point of view people arent as loose with their money, like someone said people dont want to spend an arm and a leg on luxury items. But inbetween Thanksgiving and Christmas The store thrives, especially in Lionel and trains.

As for online shopping I think that my boss ( the owner) as solved the problem. He allows customers to place orders through him, and since he gets it from a distributor instead of an online store it arrives faster and usually costs less.
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Ohio
Posted by mikepowers on Saturday, August 13, 2005 11:44 AM
Yes, I believe the internet has killed quite a few hobby shops.
But I will continue to support the LHS (whats left) even though there prices are through the roof.
I guess, just get what you can at the LHS then get the rest online.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 13, 2005 11:37 AM
Hey guys-I moved to Cleveland about 8 years ago-and have seen the demise of 3 hobby shops already-there are still two good ones left but their hours keep dwindling. Thank God for the 'net.

PS-you still can't beat the thrill of walking into a shop and having that kit immediately in your sweaty hands.
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Saturday, August 13, 2005 10:59 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by ajlafleche

Dealing with the internet and the cheap prices WalyCensored [censored]World and other big box stores is what is killing the LHS. Save 25% on the kit, then realize you need a specific color right now to finish your model for a show or other deadline and the nearest hobby shop is an hour away and will close in 25 minutes and an internet order wil take at least 4 days and double or triple the cost of that paint and you begin to see what we've done to ourselves.
The phrase "Penny wise and pound foolish" comes quickly to mind.


I second that emotion! I will always support my LHS, even though it will cost me some dough to do so. They're good people, we can have a conversation, and I buy enough that they are starting to give me sale prices all the time. They know I could buy online (and sometimes do) and still support them, so they are willing to support me, too. They can't afford to stock the AM pieces, nor can they carry all the various kits, so that is what I buy off the 'net. They are willing to share, and so am I!

So long folks!

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