LHS loses another customer!

Great thread. Nice to hear from both sides.

My fave hobby shop (now long gone) became my fave hobby shop based on the owner. Each and every time I walked in, he asked me: "What have you been working on lately?"

This, of course, led to a conversation about the latest project, and allowed him to offer me tips and suggest some items I could use.

Salesmanship is an art, but common courtesy and good customer service is certainly within anyone's reach.

-Jeff 

i  have a few lhs in my area and i think that 1 in particular will nevr lose my money

i was there today  and there was an adult (late 20's) he was a special needs guy aka: mentally challenged  and the guy behind the counter still took the time to explain the difference between two car models to him

this is a cool thing

The area is losing a longtime hobby store. They've been around for ages. I remember driving maybe 45 miles to find their original location something like 30 years ago and have almost dream-like memories of this hole in the wall shop with all kinds of neat kits the more local LHS's didn't have. They moved to a more upscale town and a bright location on a street with huge foot traffic. I'd regularly make the trip 25 mile trip and always found something. They'd have a great sale twice a year and you could find great deals as well as some funky stuff you'd never seen before.

They first expanded and carried even more stuff. They started to, ah, diversify. More and more of the shelves were filled with die casts and battle barbies.

Over the last decade or so, they seemed to loose focus. Regulars weren't greeted, there was a feeling you were disturbing them if you asked to see the behind the counter stuff like decals. Their support of the local clubs was minimal. One of their employee/hangers on was a really good builder but had very little in the way of personal skills. I'd greet him as shows and he'd not acknowlege the greeting. (A lot of folks know who I am, from being on the podium at our show or taking awards, so they'll say hello to me by name. Even if I don't recognize the face or know the name, I make it a point to smile and return the greeting since I see myself as an ambassador for the club.)

Meanwhile, a few miles up the road, another almost as old hobby shop seemed to be learning form these guys' mistakes. They're located in a small strip mall about a mile and a half from the highway and there's no foot traffic there. They ARE the destination. Maybe that's why they'd make an effort to greet regulars, "Hey, Al, how's it going?" They hired model builders as staff. They made the effort to attend our show as a sponsor and vendor to get their name and product in front of the builder. The other guys grudgingly took one sponsorhip.

I learned earlier this month the first store is closing. I confess, the last time I remember being there was 2 1/2 years ago and all I got was a bottle of paint. (Okay, it was a nice top down kind of October day.) I've been through the town several times since and didn't even have the urge to stop in. It's sad to see an LHS go, but sometimes it really is a case of reaping what you sow.

sounds familiar!

On the urine odor, I now live in the deep South after living in the arid West for decades. Mold and mildew are almost unheard of there (except in really badly vented bathrooms in old apartments) but here many buildings leak like a sieve when it rains. Seems the water seeps through cracks in the walls and gets into the carpet where it grows bacteria....many many businesses here have that odor contantly.  I just hold my nose when I go in.............

Oh, and the creeepy guy......hes just part of the whole "experience"!

David

With gas prices now hitting around $2.77 it will be a long time before I run down to Tucson or up to Phoenix just to pick up a model kit or a bottle of paint, unless the wife dragged me kicking and screaming there for something she wants to do, than I will kill 2 birds with one stone/tank of gas.

Just placed an order for a bunch of decals that Squadron has on their comsale, what a bargain! The prices range from .44 to around $5.  I finally picked up the 1/32 F/A-18D Superscale decal sheet of my former squadron for .99 and bought 10 others of 1/48 USMC F-4's and A-4M's to boot for what 2-3 sheets would normally cost. I recommend anyone to check it out and maybe save a few bucks.

Scott

PatlaborUnit1 wrote:

sounds familiar! On the urine odor,

this is why if you buy there  urine and you're out fast

DURR wrote:

PatlaborUnit1 wrote: sounds familiar! On the urine odor,   this is why if you buy there  urine and you're out fast

would saying "that one's a real pisser" be language inappropriate?  

you know, when I first started reading this thread shortly after it appeared, my initial reaction was that it can't really be so bad... I mean, after all, there's a lot of talk about the slow demise of the LHS... surely they realise they have to pull out all the stops to catch and hold customers?

But, after last building models as a kid, I decided to get back into the hobby as more time became available to me. This meant, of course, a few trips to the hobby stores in the city. Now I can see what all the ranting is about and quite frankly their demise is no great loss to me (BEEEEEG GENERALISATION I know, but trying to illustrate my point). I visited 7 different stores looking for particular kits I was interested in building. I found a few of them but the ones I couldn't get hold of immediately were noted in ALL of their message books with the promise of getting back to me, even if just to tell me they were not able to source them. How many actually bothered to get back to me? Out of 7 stores only 1 bothered - only to quote a price nearly 100% more expensive than the identical kit available online. That kind of disinterest makes me disinterested too. I will not be inconveniencing them again.

On that note - what is your online store of choice? I've never shopped online before but this hobby has convinced me to give it a try.

It's not just the LHS that has "lost" the customer focus. The move to big box stores is driving the small business person out of business. They see customers flocking to Wal-Mart to save a buck, and I mean that literally. I heard a person complaining (loudly and obnoxiously) in a store the other day that Wal-Mart was $0.85 cheaper on an item and left the store. They had to drive across town (gas = money) and stand in line to buy their item (time = money) over $0.85! But I digress!

That small business owner is now expected to give greater customer service than the big stores or online merchants. Customer service now meaning carrying an even larger inventory at even lower prices. The small stores can't compete as they don't have the selection, buying power and volume. I haven't seen better customer service at the big box stores, in fact it's much worse IMHO. Your results may very.

Some here say "too bad, so sad" but they don't realize that the profits don't stay in their city like the local stores do. And that can mean a disaster for your community. Maybe not now, but eventually it comes to affect your community. Your taxes go up to compensate, so you end up paying more anyway.

I'm lucky in that I have a decent LHS, one who greets me as I enter the store, one that supports me when I'm buying kits and supplies to send to the troops. Sure, he costs a bit more than I can get from Great Models, or Squadron, but does he really?

Let's examine a recent purchase I did online as an experiment. I bought six kits which were an average of $10 less than I could get at the LHS. Great, I've saved $60! Except that didn't include shipping ($28) or duty (I live in Canada so I was dinged $32 at the door). So it cost me $60 to save $60. Not a very good deal. It took almost two weeks to fill the order, and another three weeks to arrive through the mail (I didn't want to pay even more on shipping), so a total of 5 weeks and I didn't save a dime. Not one red cent was retained in my community. I could have bought the same kits, for the save overall price, and had them in my hands in under an hour. Even if he didn't have all the kits in his possession, he gladly orders them in, and they've never taken more than a couple of weeks. And I don't get dinged "extra" for the shipping. 

And the online stores are now subject to the same megers and acquistions that the local stores are suffering. The "little" guys are being bought up and merged with the "big" guys (see the Squadron out of stock thread), when you can't get what you want online, then what?

I'm worried about the future of the LHS, like I'm worried about the local hardware store. I don't want to have to battle traffic and crowds to buy $2 worth of nails, or a bottle of paint. And I don't want to have to wait weeks for an online order, either.  I'll continue to pay "too" much at the LHS and save me some time in doing so!

Don't know about everyone else but IMHO I don't consider Wal-Mart as replacement for the LHS, they have a very poor selection of kits, the one's I been in would have maybe 1-3 Monogram plane kits if that and some autos and that's it.

I'm now living between Tucson and Phoenix and have yet found a really good shop in either cities, the one's I seen is pushing more of the RC stuff than plastic and so I been doing more on-line shopping but I have no complaints with them with the exception of Great Models who usually have to first order what you're looking for from their distributors before sending it on and that can take several weeks. Squadron on the hand have been excellent for me, I can order something on Sunday and have it in my hands by Thursday if not Wednesday. Their shipping is now $7.50 which is a lot less than a drive into Tucson and back. The other day I bought about 10 decal sheets from Squadron that were on sale for what I would pay for 2 sheets elsewhere. LHS though good as some are don't always have what I'm looking for such as a particular kit, decal sheets or detail sets and the mail order shops can come though in that case. To each his/her own.

Scott

I wasn't referring to Wal-Mart as a replacement for the LHS, but as an example of what happens when a "super" store takes the lion's share of the business. Sorry if I misled you!

The LHS is losing to Squadron and Great Models, both of whom are now beginning to get a reputation of being out of stock and missed deliveries. You may have good luck now, but what about next year, or the year after that? When you run out of Flat Black, and can only get it online, and have to wait weeks for delivery, what will you think then?

People say that the local business doesn't value their customers. My point is that many of us don't value our local businesses. Commerce is a two way street, and it isn't always, nor should it be, solely about the money. I buy from Jim at the LHS, he buys groceries from Ted at the local market and Ted buys printing from me so he can advertise his wares, and I spend it at the LHS, and so on. We all pay local taxes, which means our streets get cleared in the winter and we can swim at the public beach in the summer, and we have a police force and firefighters and a hospital. Kind of like our own little "Circle of Life". If I only buy from Loic at Great Models, and he buys from Tamiya, how much of that trickles back to me? Answer is none. I exchange my money for a kit and ALL of that money goes bye-bye from my community. Maybe I'm greedy? I don't want to pay the full tab for the street clearing!

I would give them one more chance as mentioned above.

 We had an excellent LHS back in the 90's. The lady that ran it worked 50 to 60 hours a weekend and made a whopping $16,000 a year. Some unethical models stole kits from her etc. At one point product shrinkage averaged about $6,000 a year. Her one employee would read when she wasn't around and pretty much left the store wide open. She fought the good fight for about six years and loved having her own business etc but there just wasn't much $ in a plastic based LHS. This was before the internet and mail order really caught on in our area. She always supported our local club etc. With that in mind it's easy to see how an owner might have a bad day.

 We had another hobby shop Action Hobbies that pretty much could write the book on how to do business. The owner built models, knew the market, aftermarket inside out etc and once he knew you and you were a regular customer he'd pick up stuff just for you based on your niche. Action rocked with the best customer service you'd fine for a long time until the orginal owner retired and sold the business. I know once the owner had a bad day when a customer brought a ton of old kits in and demanded to be allowed to trade them in on a hot new release. The customer haggled and haggled etc. Finally the owner said he'd agree to the trade but only if he tacked on a "$5 nusance fee" the modeler got upset. However, having heard most of the discussion etc given the about of time involved, the fact the owner was doing the modeler a big favor etc I found the comment pretty funny and well deserved. My friend didn't think it was but hey he was being a nusance.

Bgrigg wrote:

It's not just the LHS that has "lost" the customer focus. The move to big box stores is driving the small business person out of business. They see customers flocking to Wal-Mart to save a buck, and I mean that literally. I heard a person complaining (loudly and obnoxiously) in a store the other day that Wal-Mart was $0.85 cheaper on an item and left the store. They had to drive across town (gas = money) and stand in line to buy their item (time = money) over $0.85! But I digress! That small business owner is now expected to give greater customer service than the big stores or online merchants.

It is my position that it is at the local hobby store that you, the individual customer has shown consistant loyalty to over the years should be given "better then average" (Wal-Mart level) customer service. Otherwise, why develop a personal rapport with the local guy in the first place? In my point of view, the smaller guy should have more time to individually "work with you" then the less personal "big guy".

That was the way it was with the "little guys" I dealt with when I was a kid in high school.

Here is a guy I supported before he "made it big" and now he feels he "has it made" he feels comfortible "blowing off" an older loyal customer.

I do not agree with the jerks that walk in and say idoitic stuff like "I can get it cheaper at so-and-so's" and walks out. That kind of person you don't want for a customer anyway, and in fact since he has bought nothing so far, then the owner in fact has lost nothing, and also being disruptive in a place of business is not only rude, but can have you escorted out by a local cop, if the owner chooses to call one.

In my case, I felt a had  a personal rapport with the owner's son, and I felt that his offer to give me an "exclusive look" at a collection was more then warrented, since I literally have spent hundreds there  over the years.

Rather then go off and "bad mouth" him, I feel obliged to take a moment and discuss the issue with him, and see how he feels about it.

And to add insult to injury, after telling me come back on a certain day, he tried to claim he never made me such an offer.

As it also turns out, both of the "rare kits" he sold me from their "previously owned kit display" at a somewhat high price were not in fact rare, but both are available as new kits, and for anywhere from five to ten dollers cheaper then his inflated prices, as a normal list price, not just some internet special.

Tom

I'm from a larger city with a large choice in LHSs. I can think of probably 20, 2 of which I would visit, porbably once a week each. After moving to smaller city that only has appx 3-4 stores, I thought I would be faced with the problem of only having limited options that have all the problems listed above.

To my pleasant surprise, the current store I visit has a unique problem. I cannot make a quick trip there, I'll get talking to the owners for 2 hours without really realizing it. 2 hours of talking about every type of modelling, the recent shows, releases etc etc. He's the same way with all the customers, simply knows how to keep us coming. Knows every interest, aircraft, excellent armor builder, RR name it, he knows how to work on it. New releases fast as possible and the best aftermarket case in town.

Definitely one that shows not all LHS are on the downturn.

After moving around and being in cities with no LHS at all, it's hard for me to even IMAGINE having three to four LHS's to choose from, much less 20!

Man, I thought having two to choose from in Fresno was the biggest kick of all ( I lived 68 miles away at the time and visited both regularly).  One has since closed and the other is thriving due to its diversity and overall customer base.

David 

jhande wrote:

Some shops (such as mine) are to small to hire employee's so it is just me, my wife and two children that helpout. We run our shop as a part-time business - open in the evenings after we get home from our daily lives (work, school & college).

An interesting idea. There's a place about a 5-minute walk around the corner from me which basically has two 'store-fronts' and two apartment units, and it's not going for much more than the cost of my house. With the wife about to pass the bar, we've been half-joking about the concept of buying the place, she sets up a law office in the smaller front, and I take over the larger one as a hobby shop, and we rent out the two apartments for income assistance. The problem is as follows:

I'm in San Jose. Silicon Valley. Accomodation prices are stupidly high, and a $50 kit with a reasonable markup is still going to be a $50 kit with a reasonable markup regardless of if the shop's mortgage is $1000 a month in the country or $4000 a month (or whatever) where I am. I can't see any feasible way of keeping up the payments on my place if I were to make it a full-time deal.

A part-time deal hadn't really occured to me. I guess the question is 'how much business comes in after business hours?' and 'what do you do on the weekends?' (i.e. Open both Sat and Sun?). I presume it could work out that I keep my regular job to pay the bills, and still eat my cake and have it.

NTM

Manic Moran wrote:

With the wife about to pass the bar,

there are'nt many of us that could pass a bar

Pass it?  I can't see how anyone could even swallow it to begin with!

sorry

Manic Moran wrote:

jhande wrote: Some shops (such as mine) are to small to hire employee's so it is just me, my wife and two children that helpout. We run our shop as a part-time business - open in the evenings after we get home from our daily lives (work, school & college). An interesting idea. There's a place about a 5-minute walk around the corner from me which basically has two 'store-fronts' and two apartment units, and it's not going for much more than the cost of my house. With the wife about to pass the bar, we've been half-joking about the concept of buying the place, she sets up a law office in the smaller front, and I take over the larger one as a hobby shop, and we rent out the two apartments for income assistance. The problem is as follows: I'm in San Jose. Silicon Valley. Accomodation prices are stupidly high, and a $50 kit with a reasonable markup is still going to be a $50 kit with a reasonable markup regardless of if the shop's mortgage is $1000 a month in the country or $4000 a month (or whatever) where I am. I can't see any feasible way of keeping up the payments on my place if I were to make it a full-time deal. A part-time deal hadn't really occured to me. I guess the question is 'how much business comes in after business hours?' and 'what do you do on the weekends?' (i.e. Open both Sat and Sun?). I presume it could work out that I keep my regular job to pay the bills, and still eat my cake and have it. NTM

Well, my situation is a bit unique. I live in a very rural area on a main route. So I get traffic going by twice a day, to and from work. I don't pay a mortgage on the store front. In my town there is no zoning laws. So I am converting an enclosed old farmers market stand (size of a two-car garage) into the hobby shop. Either my wife or I are sitting in the shop by 4pm and close up between 8 and 8:30pm. Weekends I am in there from 9am till 9pm. I'm not officially open for business yet as I'm still doing construction work on the building, but... if someone happens to walk in they are a friend of mine and are welcome if you know what I mean hehe. I am slowly purchasing stock for the shelves and have many, many catalogs from which a customer can order from. I can find out with a few mouse clicks and/or a phone call if my distributors have an item in question. If they do I can order it by 2pm and have it the next day. There isn't much profit in plastic kits or accessories, heck, there isn't much profit period. Give Revell a call 1-800-833-3570 and ask them for some distributors near you. Most won't dicuss the perticulars with you until after you send them a copy of your business license and tax ID. Knowing what to stock on your shelves is tricky. Some distributors can help by letting you know what has been "hot sellers" for the past week or month. Right now I'm stocking what I like, kind of a giant stash hehe. Come summer time I already made arrangements with my wife and kids. I get to go fishing in my canoe early in the morning and evenings while they run the store. I'll run it at other times. Or then again the lake is 2 minutes down the road, I could hang a sign in the window - "Gone Fish'in" with an arrow pointing down the mountain.

When I was in CT I worked a lot in the construction trades and had a few friends wheeling and dealing in rentals. I think in your situation it would be best if... the two apartment rentals could cover the mortgage, your wifes office (income) could support your family, pay for the taxes and insurance on the building, heat, electric, etc... and your hobby shop can be extra income. Any startup business takes time before it turns a profit. Especially one that involves lots of inventory. I have a few other businesses that are service related and they took a few years before showing any substaintial profit. I'm not really looking at this hobby shop as a big money maker. I'm looking at it as more of a place to hangout, do my modeling, and get my supplies at a discount price. If the business is still around in 15 to 20 years when I retire, hopefully it will be bringing in some extra cash. 

Manic Moran wrote:

The problem is as follows: I'm in San Jose. Silicon Valley. Accomodation prices are stupidly high, and a $50 kit with a reasonable markup is still going to be a $50 kit with a reasonable markup regardless of if the shop's mortgage is $1000 a month in the country or $4000 a month (or whatever) where I am. I can't see any feasible way of keeping up the payments on my place if I were to make it a full-time deal. A part-time deal hadn't really occured to me. I guess the question is 'how much business comes in after business hours?' and 'what do you do on the weekends?' (i.e. Open both Sat and Sun?). I presume it could work out that I keep my regular job to pay the bills, and still eat my cake and have it. NTM

The crank that owns the LHS here openly admits he hates dealing in plastic kits.

He sees his "bread-and-butter" as the typical aftermarket parts and supplies related to radio control aircraft and cars.

He actually appearantly has made his best money in developing and selling busines property, when he made a killing when he decided to combine his two shops into one. Now that he has gotten used to a better cash flow, he is putting pressure on his people to "keep it coming" so he can continue to take either one of his new cars (which he paid for outright with the property sale money) for another driving vacation which he want to do a lot more of now.

Meanwhile, since their new location is clearly visable off a major elevated highway intersection, intersection that I frequent here, I have observed his customer parking lot is normally empty, while typically as many as three vehicles usually are parked off to the employee's side lot which is out of the main view.

If I owned his store, I would park at least one car in front of the business to at least make it look like they're really open for business, you know, like a "starter egg" for a laying hen. I always notice that business usually picks up almost immediately once I park in front of his store.

But as Volatire once said:

"None are so blind as those who can see but will not see"

Tom

T_Terriic wrote:

"their new location is clearly visable off a major elevated highway intersection, intersection that I frequent here, I have observed his customer parking lot is normally empty"

Agreed I have seen that many times myself going down the road. You hit the top of the elevation Northbound on a Saturday and it's empty but go down on Sunday afternoon and it is full! Most of the people in there hover at the RC counter or front counter, asking about RC!

sigh.......oh, and to HAVE small mixing cups in stock? Nah......I bought them out and they have not since resupplied thier stock....

David