LHS loses another customer!

No idea about the airfield itself, but i know that part of the post is now a community college, and it looks like a few office complexes and strip malls are there now. What a shame.....

Hi Roger...

Brookhurst hobbies has a fine line of aircraft,ships, figures ect. and carries a large selection of decals and detail sets. I was never disappointed when I shopped there, and when I was station on Okinawa or working in Saudi, I would do mail order business with them. El Toro did had a great airshow program, are the civillians using it as an airport now?

Scott

Archangel Shooter wrote:

I don't like plugging a store but one shop I can highly recommend dropping in on is Brookhurst Hobbies in Garden Grove Ca if you're ever out that way, a true modeler LHS. Use to go there when I was station at MCAS El Toro. The staff is friendly and the selection of kits outstanding, just wish they were around the corner from me but I have done mail order with them over the years and was never dissatified.

Hey Scott! Consequently i live here in Stanton (next to Garden Grove) and i've heard the place a few times, but for some reason i have a hard time finding the place. I live right around the corner though from Prestige Hobbies on Beach Blvd. Good place and i like the staff, but they seem to be more geared towards cars. Not a bad thing, but some paints and supplies are often not carried or out of stock. But i think i'm gonna have to try that out! Do they cater more to aircraft, ya think? Or no?

By the way, i'm stationed outta Los Alamitos AAF, But i've been to El Toro a few times before they closed. What a shame! Really good airshows!

RemcoGrob wrote:

Model Grandpa wrote: It pretty amazing that you can't walk into your LHS and find good service nowadays.  After all we the customers are always friendly, courteous and cheerful and never have a bad day.  We never cause our own problems. (...) Needless to say I never went back to that shop.   Well thanks for letting me vent about the rotten LHS's in my area.    I think/hope you are just beeing sarcastic (and doing a wonderfull job at it)

Model Grandpa wrote:

It pretty amazing that you can't walk into your LHS and find good service nowadays.  After all we the customers are always friendly, courteous and cheerful and never have a bad day.  We never cause our own problems. (...) Needless to say I never went back to that shop.   Well thanks for letting me vent about the rotten LHS's in my area.

I think/hope you are just beeing sarcastic (and doing a wonderfull job at it)

M G

Let's see, a 12% discount on a kit that they probably only make a 24% margin on, a $.51 handling charge on an item that needed to be special ordered (which they probably need to meet a minimum order level even to order it. Their time is worth something...isn't yours?) and lastly a canopy taken from a kit makes the kit unsellable. They would have probably ended up eating the whole cost of the kit to give you that canopy. Whereas you as a consumer probably would have stood a better chance of getting one directly from the manufacturer or their distributor for little if anything.  The store employees could have politely explained all of this, but the bear was in a bad mood that day...even they know its not nice to mess with a bear in a bad mood.

Gone are the days of 'gimme'. Hell your lucky to get a full tank of gas when you purchase a new car! They now charge you for air in the tires...nitrogen filled tires are extra.

Give them the chance to meet you as a person, spend time developing a relationship and don't walk in to their store as the moody bear you described. Us older farts failed to pass on the skills of conversation to our siblings. We don't teach the same things we were taught, just ask a high school kid about geography, history or civics, they probably don't have a clue. If you had a bad experience, I'm sorry to hear that, but we tend to think that the retail world is all skittles and beer, it isn't. Their workdays are the same as yours or were if you are retired, some days are exceptional and others just plain suck. Give them the benefit of the doubt, or they'll be gone when you need them the most. JMHO.

 

It pretty amazing that you can't walk into your LHS and find good service nowadays.  After all we the customers are always friendly, courteous and cheerful and never have a bad day.  We never cause our own problems.  Like the time I screwed up the paint on the canopy to the kit I was building, I was in a bad mood anyway and they didn't have an after market in stock, nor would they open a new kit from the shelf and give that one to me, after all they can just call the manufacturer and get a new one for the kit.  Then they had the gall to tell me it would take a week to order an after market canopy and it would cost $5.00!  You can get it from Squadron for $4.49!  Needless to say I never went back to that shop.

 

Another shop I went to the clown behind the counter didn't know how good the resin parts included in a new, yet to be released multi-media kit was.  In my opinion it's his job to find out details like this, wouldn't you agree?  He also had the gall to tell me that the kits sometime hit the magazines a month or two before they're released!  He also made me wait while he finished helping the two customers that were there before me.  He said something like "hello, how's it going, I be with you in just a minute" when I walked in.  Man did that ever make my blood boil.  It's hard to believe the owner of the store would pay a guy like that for what he does, after all he makes about 50¢ over minimum wage.  Needless to say I never went back to that shop.

 

Don't even get me started on the one LHS that the owner of offered to sell me a $40 kit for $35.  A whole whopping $5 off MSRP...wow what good stinking deal...NOT!  He was friendly enough but then he had the gall to tell me with a smile on his face that he had to make a little money to pay the rent!  I told him to take the money out of his paycheck!  Then he had the gall to tell me he didn't draw a paycheck from the store last month.  I told him to be a better businessman and that wouldn't be a problem. I told him to sell his stuff for less and he said if he did he would be selling at a loss after expenses! Needless to say I never went back to that shop.

 

Well thanks for letting me vent about the rotten LHS's in my area.   

We lost one of our area HTU, the two in the area were owned by the same person, he closed the one that wasn't self supporting. He intends to sell his current building and relocate to a smaller facility in a higher traffic location. It's a shame, the store has three race tracks indoors (slot, flat and dirt) there is enough space to fly electrics indoors too. But again even the RC business does support the costs of all of square footage. He's offered to sell me the business, but right now my hands are full and my pockets are not deep enough.

I have a LHS within 2 miles, but I refuse to do business with them because they have not stock any new plastic models, but their concentration has shifted to RC products.  I now drive over 10 miles to go to another shop that appreciates my business and is worth the drive.  Like what Rob G said, they have some older stuff at great price and even price of newer kits are not all that more expensive than internet based shops.  Besides, he gives 20% discount for AMPS member.

Funny you should mention Hobbytown, I just made a 20 mile drive to one, and they were gone. Another LHS bites the dust.

The Hobby Town shop in Tucson I previously mentioned had closed their store the other month, sign said they were relocating to Speedway Blvd but there's already a Hobby Town on that street??? Guess the next time I'm down that way I will see if they did set up at another site or simply merged with the other store? I believe a customer should always feel welcome whether he/she is buying a high price kit, a bottle of paint/glue, or merely browsing which I for one, does all three. If a store owner has an open distain for the shopping habbits of modelers, than good business sense says he should keep it to himself.   

I too would hate to see the end of the LHS, for me finding a new hobby shop is exciting and if it's well stocked than I get that 'I died and gone to Heaven' feeling, the same as when I was 10 and going to my LHS in Houston. I don't like plugging a store but one shop I can highly recommend dropping in on is Brookhurst Hobbies in Garden Grove Ca if you're ever out that way, a true modeler LHS. Use to go there when I was station at MCAS El Toro. The staff is friendly and the selection of kits outstanding, just wish they were around the corner from me but I have done mail order with them over the years and was never dissatified. Last month I found Royal Hobbies in Chandler AZ, one clerk as told to me, was given the okay to set up a one wall, plastic model section among all the RC stuff. I'd say the ratio was 95% RC stock to 5% models if that but he's trying to increase it. I went in looking for a new sprue cutter which they didn't have but they did have a 1/350th Tamiya Bismark which I grab along with a new air compressor and we talked about plastic modeling for nearly an hour. Will I go back there? You bet! I like shopping on-line but nothing feels good such as being in a hobby shop and holding that special kit you been looking for in one's hand and taking it home.

Scott

I haven't been into a hobby shop that has kits that can be opended in a long long time. I know the shop that I shop at would open a kit for someone to preview then reshrink wrap it after you were done. Many store owners also shrink wrap their magazines so dirty sticky fingers don't ruin it for the guy who wants to purchase a fresh magazine . As I had mentioned previously, store owners should make available reference material and catalogs, we're such visual creatures. Displaying a magazine that has an article or preview of something that everyone is inquiring about makes good sense. Showing a customer what the model could look like when done versus the cover art can make the difference weather or not someone shells out the bucks for the kit.  If someone comes into your house in this case store and is clumsy and breaks things, then you should ask them for payment unless it was an accident. If a store is in a status of disorray and items are not securely situated then the owner needs to walk around and make his store conducive to clumsy oufs like you would your home for little children. Prevention saves!

Now from the backside of the counter...owners face several issues which were not as great of a problem say thirty years ago. The retail prices are higher, but the margins the retailer makes are much lower. The costs to do business are increasing annually. Rent, heat, lights, insurance, advertising and even travel. You see fewer mom & pops at expos like iHobby. It is just too expensive to attend and the 'show only' discounts vendors/distributors offer are not as good as they once were. Many stores cannot afford to close their doors for even a day to attend such events competition and customer demands are so tough.

It is harder to be in business these days regardless if it is a LHS or a car dealership. Each has it unique issues in the marketplace. We are becoming a warehouse shopping society, the box store concept is spreading to other markets besides Home Depot and Sams. We are a more savy group of consumers these days. We research more our purchases in advance especially big ticket items.

Remember the day when you went to your local hobby shop to see what was new? You'd hear about the latest releases from the owner who had just returned from a buying trip at the trade expo. They were the first to see the new kits. They would tell you all about them and everyone across the counter from him/her would be locked into every word. Now the owner has to ask the customer. We know about a kit even before the manufacturer has it out of the mold. The excitement and the need to visit the LHS is waining, I find this sadning. I looked forward to meeting other modelers each week at the local shop. Our busy schedules keep us away. One of the IPMS Chapters I am a memeber of meets at a local hobby shop. We begin our meeting by taking time to check the shelves and purchase a few things we need. Sometime it isn't much but it counts for something. The owner is always willing to do what ever he can to support us and order things we need. So it comes around, we help staff their local contests. I've heard it said that 99% of the mom & pop hobby shops is what is holding back our hobby. What do you think?

This is a good conversation gang! Let's keep it going!

Gerald 

 

 

 

Archangel Shooter wrote:

There was a Hobby Town shop in Tucson which lost my business when one day I was there I was searching for a kit and paints, and overheard the owner talking to a friend of his that the best customer he likes are one that comes in, qucikly buy something than get the hell out of his store. Not customer friendly! So now I buy all my kits and paints on-line and save on the gas. Scott

I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't a lot more lhs owner/operators who have that attitude.  My question is, Did he show this attitude to you personally (was he usually friendly, polite and helpful to you? Or was he just the opposite?) Or was it because you heard his comment to his friend that made you decide he was "not customer friendly"?  If it were the latter and he was running a successful shop, then he was a good business man.

My question of you is, which would you rather have if your were running a hobby shop - someone who comes in, spends a little time then buys 20 to 60 dollars on kits and supplies and then departs (and does this every week or two) or someone (or a group of someones) who comes into your shop, hangs around for several hrs, opening kits and poking around in them, never putting them back in the proper place on the shelves, reading the model mags from cover to cover, knocking the occasional paint/liquid glue bottle off the shelves to break on the floor, asking about prices and availability of kits (and never ordering one) then buying one bottle of paint and departing (or nothing at all usually).  And repeating the performance 2 or 3 times a week?  Remembering that you have to pay rent/mortgage, taxes, utilities and insurance on the store and then have to pay rent/mortgage, taxes, car payments, insurance, food, clothing and education for the yourself, the wife and the kids and hopefully lay a little aside for your retirement after you get home.  And be polite and helpful to everyone who steps thru the door. 

HawkeyeHobbies

I am in 100% agreement with you! You nailed it with the shop interest vs. knowledgable staff issues. I used to frequent a GREAT LHS ( it was a chain, but great) with good selection, stock and knowledge, local club support (which is a two way street yanno!) promotions, you name it.

Now I live in a different city where indifference is the name of the game. The one old established LHS that has been open many many years does not "push" plastic at all. They provide a fairly large selection, I can usually walk in and find the kit Im looking for (at fullretail, sometimes just above MSRP), with a fair selection of paint (no Gunze, oh well) fair book and magazine selection, etc etc.  Anyway, there is just no plastic INTEREST there. They sell the product and some of them are fairly knowledgable but they simply will not guide any of the patrons to our local club gatherings do much to promote the return of the patron to the store. I havent been in in several months following a conversation where it just became plain as day that the LHS staff simply didn't have any interest.  RC is the name of the game in that particular shop, its where the bigger bucks are for them, and thier support for RC products are keeping in with thier own interest.

I love local hobby shops. I dont like buying off the net or at Hobby Lobby, but I do, because when Iwalk into a shop and meet face to face with the owner or staff, I want my visit to leave me feeling as if my sale was valued by the staff behind the counter. If you ever get down to Pensacola, drop into Bobe's  on North W. They know thier stuff, love the hobby, and have just about every product you can imagine!

David

 

Archangel Shooter wrote:

There was a Hobby Town shop in Tucson which lost my business when one day I was there I was searching for a kit and paints, and overheard the owner talking to a friend of his that the best customer he likes are one that comes in, qucikly buy something than get the hell out of his store. Not customer friendly! So now I buy all my kits and paints on-line and save on the gas. Scott

That's pathetic! Seriously, how can you care about the LHS after seeing/hearing that? I'm just not emotional/mushy like so many members about their LHS. Sure it's sad about the decline, but it's a fact. Get over it. 

Used to support my LHS, but I've given up, never could get new releases from them even when I special ordered them, now I can't even buy basic colors of paint(like flat black) because they are out of stock. And I used to be be an asst manager for them. I knew what was available in kit and tried to keep them in stock and if a customer asked and I had it, I would go get it for them.

I do understand them not stocking resin and decals though, just to much of an investment anymore with the amount of AM stuff out there now.

Some store owners don't understand the concept of the lifetime value of a customer. A regular customer who frequents a store and tells other what they purchased or seen carries a great deal of value. A one time only customer, who rushes in to buy a Xacto knive to complete a project they were in town to do is even worth the net profit of the knife itself. Those customers are not worth as much as customers who regularly patronize a store even if they only buy the same Xacto. It is the word of mouth advertising they provide..."Oh yeah they have that model Xacto blade. Stop in So and So Hobbies, the blade you looking for are in the third row to the right as you enter the store." The whole goal is to get patrons on your property...then it is up to the store owner to make the sale. Why do you think you get asked if you need help when you visit a electronics box store like Best Buy or Circuit City? They want to make a sale.  Even when you walk into your favorite LHS, a good store owner will point out something new...have you seen the new line of acrylic NMF paint from Hawkeye's? They'd look good on that F-104 (sorry it is the only example that came to mind) you picked up. It is the little add-on and impulse items that they make the best margins. They should also promote the local clubs and organizations related to the hobby or item the customer is looking at/purchasing.  Maybe I should write a "How to Manage a Hobby Shop for Dummies".

There was a Hobby Town shop in Tucson which lost my business when one day while I was there searching for a kit and some paints, I overheard the owner talking to a friend of his that the best customer he likes are one that comes in, quickly buy something than get the hell out of his store. Not very customer friendly! So now I buy all my kits and paints on-line and save on the gas.

Scott

snarlyq -

I know exactly how you felt, believe me.  I can have an extremely short fuse, and if the wrong thing sets it off, forget it.  I likely would have done the same thing as you, but whenever I act in haste it always comes back to bite me in the butt.

I agree with Hawkeye - go back one more time, and if you're treated the same way make sure they know that you're not coming back any more - and especially why!  I can't believe that in this day and age any LHS is willing to alienate even one regular, or even semi-regular, customer.  But if they don't seem to care, so be it.  If they don't realize how they're treating customers, they won't change unless they're told.  After that, it's up to them.  If they don't change, then I can't imagine they will stay in business for much longer.

Be civil about it, though - take the high road.  That way there can't be any doubt in anyone's mind who the bad guy is.  Something along the lines of "Excuse me.  I've been coming here for several years now, and I can't believe you would treat a regular customer the way you have today.  If you don't have the time to help me look for a kit, at least say so, instead of just telling me to look for myself.  And if you really think I would replace your pricetags with one of my own just to rip you off, tell me so and I'll stop shopping here, since obviously you don't want me as a customer."   Basically, give them the opportunity to apologize or make it right.  If they don't feel it's worth their while, then good riddance.  Who knows - maybe the owner just got some bad news, and maybe that salesperson is new or just plain stupid.  Have you been satisfied with their customer service up until this point, or is there a history of dissatisfaction with the way they deal with you?  That's important too - if it was just this one time, and they caught you on a bad day, then maybe they do deserve a second chance.  But it's a very hollow victory for you if they never even know that they drove you away with poor customer service.

Great to hear that you are willing to take the risk of being in business. It is definitely hard work, and can be exciting too. Your best sources of information regarding models is your customers. If they walk in the door asking for something, probably they have read or heard about it. Your job is to follow through to see if it is something you can assist them with. If you can do it without too much risk, do so, if not tell them you cannot. You have to start in small steps, over stepping your abilities could lead to a fatal fall.

I was born in Kittery, ME; I haven't been back to see the White Mountains since 1975, we are planning on a trip east though. Email me your address and I will add it to our 'must see list'.

Regardless of what you build basic modeling techniques are the same. There are nuances to particular each of the subjects but the basics are the basics. Modelers like to see pictures, so be sure to have catalogs available for them to look at or access to a computer with the manufacturers websites accessable with a simple click (keep it under your control) and have some tools and scrap plastic handy to demonstrate techniques. You'll be amazed at how much liquid cement and Touch-n-Flows you can sell by showing just how they work. Teach the parent to teach the kids...you'll develop multi-generational  customers! Oh yeah, don't make the business a burden to your kids keep it fun; you'll need their help once you grow into a BIG LHS!

 

Snarlyq give him one more chance, be bright, be blunt, be gone if he isn't willing to listen. 

 

 

Thanks for the input fellow modelers. I literally drove over 100 miles yesterday looking for an airbrush and kit, and I felt that I held up my end of the deal by showing some local (and not so local) support for the dying LHS. I too, needed to vent a little and appreciate everyone's viewpoint on this. That being said, I do believe that there are still some reputable LHS still out there but they will no longer recieve my hard earned cash and time. It is a real shame that the good old days are gone, at least where I'm from.

Nice input Hawkeye!

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience at your LHS recenty snarlyq.

As someone who has just started a small mom & pop hobby shop I'd like to add my

Some shops (such as mine) are to small to hire employee's so it is just me, my wife and two children that helpout. We run our shop as a part-time business - open in the evenings after we get home from our daily lives (work, school & college). The only one of us that really knows anything regarding plastic kits is me. I don't know everything and focus my interest on car models. Do I know every available aftermarket kit for each car kit? No. Am I willing to find out for my customers? Yes. Do I carry just car models? No, I am expanding my stock to include Armor, planes, etc... Why? Because they are popular modeling subjects which will help bring in revenue. Do I stock anything and everything related to modeling? No, I am not rich. Do I feel bad when someone ask me for a certain kit or tool and I do not stock it? Yes, but I can place an order by 3pm and receive it the next day from my distributor. So if the customer places a special order say on Monday night 7pm, I send out an order email and I have it in hand come Wednesday.

As far as high markup prices are concerned... I keep my pricing below M.S.R.P. but unfortunately I can not compete with online pricing. Most online shops with really low prices are actually distributors. Depending on the items or kits, my cost varies from 10% to 40% off M.S.R.P. plus shipping and handling. The larger my order to the distributor the better my savings. But what do I order along with the customers $30.00 kit to boost my order to $200 or $300 for the better discount?

Yes there are times that my family and I have a bad day. Do we take it out on our customers that evening in our store? We try not too and hopefully we don't. Some of my freinds that stop by can sometimes tell that something is wrong. But I certainly try to hide it and be courteous and helpful to my patrons.

LHS are a dieing breed. The store owners know it is just a matter of time before the online businesses run them under. Why did I recently open a shop if I realize the fate? I was tired of my purchasing choices at Wal*Mart or having to search online for what I wanted for my son and I. I only hope that our little mom & pop shop can hang in there for the next 20 years until I retire. That way I will have a killer stash, a place to hangout and build my kits, and maybe, just maybe make a few dollars.

As with any business, it is only as good as the people who work there. In my career working in or around retail people make the difference. I've experience exactly what you did more than once. Store owners who are not organized or keenly aware of their inventory communicate both verbally and nonverbally that they are indifferent to the customers that they depend on to survive. I'm willing to bet if this is a standard practice at this store, their future is in doubt.

Reflecting back, I've seen customers who don't mind paying a little more than the competitors if they receive respect and quality service from the employees of the establishment they are patronizing. A good store owner/manager must either be knowledgable or hire personnel who have that knowledge and train them in good customer service. Treat your customer as if they are a guest in your home, afterall they are the means to which provides them that home.

You can see the trend of success in your LHS based on the people that work there. A LHS who covers several categories may have one that is particularly strong...say RC cars. Dimes to donuts, there is an employee or the owner is active in that category personally. Catagories that don't do as well say plastics usually means there is no one there who can answer questions, provide how-to tips, look at a kit and know what accessories are needed to complete the kit, and the big one...actually builds them. These categories change in popularity as the staff changes. One month they are selling, then the next they are not because the knowledge base left with Joe the sales clerk who left to go to college or got a better paying job at Applebees.

As with any business, self promotion is another key to success, as we have seen locally, the employess just showed up to collect a check, including the manager. With no interest to promote their business on a personal level (such as attend science fairs, hobby clubs, school craft & hobby events etc.) but only rely on the owners advertising in the local paper/yellowpages/radio&TV to bring in business it is a short lived venture. Participating in these types of events touches new customers and shows interest in those customers and the activities they pursue. This is a sound foundation for success. Your experience may have been just a bad day for the guy or he's not in tune with his surroundings and business, just slowly fading away.

Sorry for the rant. 

 

Sometimes hobby shops get new stock with new MSRP prices sent to them but they still have older stock with a cheaper price tag on it.

I also know a LHS that puts lower prices on a few of the  boxes of the same model kits. They do this because they have a slight overstock and hope to push a few out the door quickly and cheaply as a way to control inventory.

That took some getting used to. As I became a regular customer, the clerks would inform me that some of the kits they had were overstocked and marked down.

It's not that I don't like the workers and such, but the prices are laughable. Talk about a markup. The only money they really get from me is for paint and an occassional book or magazine. You're right, it's way easier to click away an order rather then waste time and gas hunting something down. Though it's nice to view the box, it's not a big deal to have hands on shopping to get a thrill.