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OOP kit prices

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  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Casa Grande, Az.
Posted by DesertRat on Friday, November 30, 2007 2:05 PM
 Rob Gronovius wrote:
 mikepowers wrote:

Dahut, right on brother.

Your comments opened my eyes a bit. Alot, actually.

 Mike

I can probably answer the "military" moves comment. I have bought many kits with great intentions as well. Sometimes I get to stay in one place for 3 years, but many times it is around the 2-2½ year mark* (with some of that time spent deployed). You do not want to build a high dollar model kit that you know will not survive a cross country (or intercontinetal) move.

Why do you buy it? Because it is a subject you really like, you see it and you have the funds available right now. Why do you sell it some time later? Because your tastes have changed, perhaps you realize you will never have the time to get to build it, or perhaps you decide that you do not have the skills or desire to do the kit justice.

I know I wouldn't want to start putting glue to plastic on a high dollar kit that I do not intend to give my best shot at building.

I've got several high dollar kits like the Trumpeter 1/32 scale A-10A, 1/16 Tamiya full RC Tiger I, 1/16 Tamiya King Tiger, 1/72 Revell U-boat and many more that I've acquired but will not build until I've retired and stopped moving. Can you imagine having those built kits transported in a moving van? No room to hand carry it in your car as you move. There's barely room for the essentials that a family needs to travel with in the family car, let alone large fragile model kits.

*When I move in May 08, I will have spent 3 years, 4 months in one place without being deployed or sent on temporary duty during the span. This will mark the longest time in my 20+ year career that I have spent at one place for a continuous amount of time. Not a lot of time to work on a project of that magnitude. I have; however, built dozens of 1/72 and 1/48 scale kits during the time period.

I can vouch for this as well. Often times you hear someone that has a really nice, OOP kit that they are saving to build when their skills get better (i have a few of those). There are also those that save an OOP kit waiting for some kind of stability to know that their rare builds look their best for longer periods of time. Of course plans/finances change. And as much as you want to do that kit, if you have to part with it, you want to make sure it gets a good home! Just my My 2 cents [2c]

Warmest regards,

Roger

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Casa Grande, Az.
Posted by DesertRat on Friday, November 30, 2007 1:57 PM

 dahut wrote:
  A turd is still a turd, friends - no matter how hard you polish it.

Boy, i'd sure hate to have that detail.....Yuck [yuck]

Seriously though, i do kinda wonder if maybe the concept of "rare" might be a relative term in some situations. And i kinda suspect that geography also changes what is and is not rare. After all, what might be common in country A may be scarce in country B for whatever reason.

Especially when it comes to the die-cast side of the house (i have a very small collection of those) i've noticed that there are some models that seem to be plentiful in Japan, but i've yet to see stateside. And with the internet serving a now global market, it seems that the grey area is that much bigger.

 

And i sure hope that those were the last 200 of that particular fridge magnet. Those things were friggin ugly!Yuck [yuck]

Warmest regards,

Roger

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Friday, November 30, 2007 1:50 PM
 mikepowers wrote:

Dahut, right on brother.

Your comments opened my eyes a bit. Alot, actually.

 Mike

I can probably answer the "military" moves comment. I have bought many kits with great intentions as well. Sometimes I get to stay in one place for 3 years, but many times it is around the 2-2½ year mark* (with some of that time spent deployed). You do not want to build a high dollar model kit that you know will not survive a cross country (or intercontinetal) move.

Why do you buy it? Because it is a subject you really like, you see it and you have the funds available right now. Why do you sell it some time later? Because your tastes have changed, perhaps you realize you will never have the time to get to build it, or perhaps you decide that you do not have the skills or desire to do the kit justice.

I know I wouldn't want to start putting glue to plastic on a high dollar kit that I do not intend to give my best shot at building.

I've got several high dollar kits like the Trumpeter 1/32 scale A-10A, 1/16 Tamiya full RC Tiger I, 1/16 Tamiya King Tiger, 1/72 Revell U-boat and many more that I've acquired but will not build until I've retired and stopped moving. Can you imagine having those built kits transported in a moving van? No room to hand carry it in your car as you move. There's barely room for the essentials that a family needs to travel with in the family car, let alone large fragile model kits.

*When I move in May 08, I will have spent 3 years, 4 months in one place without being deployed or sent on temporary duty during the span. This will mark the longest time in my 20+ year career that I have spent at one place for a continuous amount of time. Not a lot of time to work on a project of that magnitude. I have; however, built dozens of 1/72 and 1/48 scale kits during the time period.

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Glue and paint smeared bench, in La La Land
Posted by dahut on Friday, November 30, 2007 1:39 PM

Just like to mention that on a whim, i decided to run a search of everything listed as "rare" on Ebay, was it was surprising! I saw it but still don't believe some of the stuff that was listed as rare! For example, i had seen a certain refridgerator magnet listed with that word in the headline. But somehow i had to scoff when i saw well over 200 more of the exact same one right after it! Weird.....

And you folks thought I was full of my usual hot air! Some very few things ARE indeed rare and deserve the title. That's where it's important for you to actually know. Most things on the other hand...well, are not. A turd is still a turd, friends - no matter how hard you polish it.

Cheers, David
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Friday, November 30, 2007 1:00 PM

 DesertRat wrote:
For example, i had seen a certain refridgerator magnet listed with that word in the headline. But somehow i had to scoff when i saw well over 200 more of the exact same one right after it! Weird.....

Maybe those are the last 200 in existence! Big Smile [:D]

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Casa Grande, Az.
Posted by DesertRat on Friday, November 30, 2007 12:15 PM
Just like to mention that on a whim, i decided to run a search of everything listed as "rare" on Ebay, was it was surprising! I saw it but still don't believe some of the stuff that was listed as rare! For example, i had seen a certain refridgerator magnet listed with that word in the headline. But somehow i had to scoff when i saw well over 200 more of the exact same one right after it! Weird.....

Warmest regards,

Roger

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Ohio
Posted by mikepowers on Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:00 AM

Dahut, right on brother.

Your comments opened my eyes a bit. Alot, actually.

 Mike

  • Member since
    January 2007
  • From: Glue and paint smeared bench, in La La Land
Posted by dahut on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 6:36 PM

Anytime you mention ebay, the discussion degrades into a gripe session. Few really understand what an auction is and how to make it work, on both sides, so there ends up a lot of foolishness and complaining. This is not the time to rectify all that, so let's look at some notable things about that particular listing:

"This is an extremely rare 1/32nd Scale Kit of the Grumman F-14A Tomcat Fighter made by Tamiya (Kit 60301).  The kit is no longer in production and extremely hard to find even on the secondary market."

Yeah, right. This is not a some esoteric vacform, made in a guys garage. This thing was made by a major industrial player in the injection molded hobby kit business. Do you think they tooled up to make only five of these? That said, how many do you think they made? Thousands? Tens of thousands? More?

The use of "rare" as a selling point is one of the most abused concepts on ebay. For proof, go to eBay and search just that word, "rare." The things people are trying to shove off on unsuspecting buyers as "rare" will astound you.  I actually had an ebay seller respond once that it doesn't really matter if something is rare or not - as long as there is someone dumb enought to believe what the seller is telling him.

So, is this kit rare? Honestly, I don't really know, ** but enough here seem to think NOT. That tells you something. However, this bloke seems to think it is, God Bless him. The goal of every seller is to max out his profit, after all. Dont ever forget that.

By the same token, many don't really know how to do so and this guy is one of those types. I think he is sincere, based on the clues he leaves, so I'll give him that. But I'd bet my next kit that his 'Cat won't sell from this listing.

NOTE: To set the record straight, this isnt even an auction. It's a fixed sale, the price being set by the seller. He could've taken out a free classified for that. As it stands now, he has beaucoup fees to pay - whether it sells or not.

"The kit is in new condition with all parts and decals as they come originally from Tamiya." 

It better be all that, for his way-beyond-market asking price.**

"I purchased the kit from a hobby store years ago with many great intentions.  Obviously the military has kept me on the move to much to do justice to this kit." 

Big deal, buyers dont care about that stuff. His first mistake was buying it at retail. Why a mistake? Because first, this means it was hardly rare. I mean, if it appeared on retail shelves to start with, how rare was it? Second, now he wants you to think it IS rare and is trying to turn that retail cost over to YOU, the buyer. Why would you follow him down that path?

He says it's obvious that military commitments have kept him too busy to build the Tomcat, but we take his word on that, don't we? Where is that expressly obvious in his listing?

He also says he had good intentions of building it. Now I ask you; who here hasn't had those same good intentions?!

I am being nit-picky here, I know. But this is a sales pitch, plain and simple. His whole pitch is based on rarity, but he in no way assures you with facts that it IS rare. Meanwhile, he insists you begin paying him at $250... and he's generously made it possible for you to pay more, if you want, by using the BIN tactic (and using it wrongly, I might add.) 

But, does any of this make his offering rare and worth his price? Nope. This is what is called the 'personal angle' or what I would call a 'sob story'. IT's sole aim is to rationalize and justify his super-sized price.

** Okay, here's the meat - the Real Deal:

The SURE WAY to know if something is rare and really worth $$250(!!!) is to research it yourself. I did that, as part of my response on this. It only takes a short time to do when you know how and the results are enlightening:

- One of these same kits sold, 11/14/07, for $182 and that included an OOP "Verlinden Way, Vol III," which has a section devoted to just this model.

- Another of the same vintage went for $91 on 11/17/07.

- I found another seller that had 15 of the same kit, NEW with well-employed BIN pricing, for half this dude's opener, and NO ONE made a purchase. Not one soul.

Obviously there is some interest, more than I have, that's for sure. But I say that with reservation; there also seems to be a limited buyer group and THOSE aren't beating the door down to get one of these klits. Is there enough interest to warrant $250 as a starting bid, with a $350 BIN price? Again... not that I can see. This guys delusional and has lost his grip.

Just like blogging gives people the illusion of being a "published author," Ebay offers each of us the chance to be a big-dollar, Christies Inc., auctioneer. In so doing, Ebay has tapped into an "un-reality wavelength" that some people naturally tune right into once they log on. It's called avarice... suddenly, everyone is the "Donald Trump of Ebay." Such folks lose all sense of fact and forget the basic tenets of market economics. Their most fervent hope is that you will join them in their delusions and overlook their mistakes. 

To be fair, not everyone offering merchandsie on eBay has lost their minds. Some know what they are doing and aren't out to rip anyone off. They've learned the "secrets" of eBay. Once you do the same and how to research these things for yourself, you will open up some REAL value on eBay. If more people did just that, much of the silliness and blatant huckstering on eBay would stop. Unfortunately, enough people haven't done their due diligence, so the whole experience is cheapened and can seem like just another hustle.

As someone already hinted at, it's your choice. Is it worth it to you? If so, pay it. If it's not, then laugh with the rest of us and go look at something else. You've lost nothing... Caveat Emptor.

Cheers, David
  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Casa Grande, Az.
Posted by DesertRat on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:23 PM

Actually never considered the possibility of refunding if a kit was actually imcomplete or what not. Guess i had been pretty lucky thus far.

   Of course on the flip side, i have actually gotten some really good deals from Ebay, so i have to say that perhaps the good outweighs the bad. Considering that i am very "customer service demanding", I will overlook alot and still give positive feedback as long as communication is good and the seller is understanding and willing to work with me. Besides, i like my 100% positive feedback score, and would rather work to keep it as such

Warmest regards,

Roger

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 6:55 AM

It's all relative. Many folks would do a double take to see the MSRP of model kits on the shelf. Guys who last built a Monogram Patton kit for $5 in the 70s would have a hard time swallowing $40 for the latest Tamiya or Dragon superkit.

I dislike the eBay sellers who try to minimize the eBay fee by inflating the shipping charge (i.e. $5 for kit, $20 for shipping). Remember, if you have a problem with the kit/item, the seller is only required to refund the item price, not total price. You buy a $25 kit that ends up missing a few parts, the buyer may refund just the $5. Heck, it will cost you more than that to return the kit with postage. And keep in mind you are dealing with someone who is openly trying to cheat eBay from their stated fee.

There is a feature in eBay that allows you to report a seller for inflated shipping charges. There are several examples of inflated charges.

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 6:47 AM
 DesertRat wrote:

Well i had noticed alot of people will ask a small fortune for some kits just because it has been out of production for a few years. I do think that some auctions are just a little too unrealistic. After all, it is just plastic styrene you are bidding on.

   Another problem i had seen is that often times you'll bid on what looks like a really good deal (at $1.00, for example) but the shipping is where they really gouge you. I've seen the shipping costs for kits as high as $50 for a given kit, for example. It's a common loophole i've noticed with sellers. Ebay will take their cut of the sale price of the kit, but not for the shipping. So the cost of the kit is extremely low (thereby attracting more bidders) and the seller makes their money by pocketing the difference on the shipping costs. Pretty dishonest, i think

All too common on e-bay, IMO.  When I was selling models, I quoted exactly what the postage cost was. Cost of packing materials was an expense I'm happy to absorb.  Sellers forget that we can check the USPS website easily, and find out what postage REALLY is worth.  Ask some sellers for the dimensions and weight of the box, so you can do your own checking, and they start to get evasive.   Seems like a sneaky way to make up what you didnt get on your sale price.   There are a few Asian sellers though, that are very reasonable with postage.

"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional"

" A hobby should pass the time - not fill it"  -Norman Bates

 

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  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Casa Grande, Az.
Posted by DesertRat on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 3:35 AM

 Daywalker wrote:
I picked up an orange rubber ball with "The Beatles" printed on it it white at an antique store for $12, thinking I could probably sell it on Ebay for maybe $50.  I started the bidding at $19.99, and nothing for the first 6 days.  On the last day, a few guys went crazy bidding and it sold for $986.00.  I couldn't believe it!  Figured I'd never see a check from the guy, but it arrived two days later in a Priority Mail envelope with a note thanking me for such a wonderful item at a great price!  Said the orange ones are the hardest to find.

For an orange rubber ball?!?!?!?

That's extraordinary!!!! Granted i know next to nothing about Rock & Roll Memorabilia, but wow!!!

   I thought it was a little on the insane side paying about $80 for a concert poster i wanted thoughBlush [:I]

Warmest regards,

Roger

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: South Central Wisconsin
Posted by Daywalker on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 12:07 AM
I picked up an orange rubber ball with "The Beatles" printed on it it white at an antique store for $12, thinking I could probably sell it on Ebay for maybe $50.  I started the bidding at $19.99, and nothing for the first 6 days.  On the last day, a few guys went crazy bidding and it sold for $986.00.  I couldn't believe it!  Figured I'd never see a check from the guy, but it arrived two days later in a Priority Mail envelope with a note thanking me for such a wonderful item at a great price!  Said the orange ones are the hardest to find.

Frank 

 

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Casa Grande, Az.
Posted by DesertRat on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 11:18 PM
 ajlafleche wrote:
 DesertRat wrote:

So the cost of the kit is extremely low (thereby attracting more bidders) and the seller makes their money by pocketing the difference on the shipping costs. Pretty dishonest, i think

If the seller is telling you up front what the shipping is gooing to be, how is that dishonest?

Whenever I order anything on-line or from a catalog, I make sure I check the shipping costs. That will be a factor in making my decision to buy or not. I would never bid on an item that didn't clearly indicate what the cost of shipping is going to be. If someone is fool  enough to bid without checking that first, he deserves whatever happens to him.

Well that's usually the catch... when they don't tell you up front. I had kinda been referencing some of those bids where it doesn't list the shipping costs. My B-17F kit in 1/48 was like that.

Sorry, i guess i miss that point in the last postBlush [:I]

Warmest regards,

Roger

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:37 PM
 DesertRat wrote:

So the cost of the kit is extremely low (thereby attracting more bidders) and the seller makes their money by pocketing the difference on the shipping costs. Pretty dishonest, i think

If the seller is telling you up front what the shipping is gooing to be, how is that dishonest?

Whenever I order anything on-line or from a catalog, I make sure I check the shipping costs. That will be a factor in making my decision to buy or not. I would never bid on an item that didn't clearly indicate what the cost of shipping is going to be. If someone is fool  enough to bid without checking that first, he deserves whatever happens to him.

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Casa Grande, Az.
Posted by DesertRat on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:18 PM

Well i had noticed alot of people will ask a small fortune for some kits just because it has been out of production for a few years. I do think that some auctions are just a little too unrealistic. After all, it is just plastic styrene you are bidding on.

   Another problem i had seen is that often times you'll bid on what looks like a really good deal (at $1.00, for example) but the shipping is where they really gouge you. I've seen the shipping costs for kits as high as $50 for a given kit, for example. It's a common loophole i've noticed with sellers. Ebay will take their cut of the sale price of the kit, but not for the shipping. So the cost of the kit is extremely low (thereby attracting more bidders) and the seller makes their money by pocketing the difference on the shipping costs. Pretty dishonest, i think

Warmest regards,

Roger

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Tucson, AZ
Posted by Archangel Shooter on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 10:05 AM

I built this kit years ago when I picked it up for around $75, it's certaily not worth the asking price on E-Bay but there's always some Clown [:o)] that will pay those prices.

Scott

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 On the bench: So many hanger queens.

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 8:42 AM

eBay gets a bad rap, but it is a great place for sellers and buyers to meet. You get more money than you thought your old kit was worth and some collector finds that great piece to round out his collection.

I will admit that because of the urge to win, some novice eBayers will drive up the price beyond what the item can be bought new. eBay has also been congested with all sorts of power sellers and online stores. It is hard to find the bargin priced kit some modeler is trying to sell when there are dozens on eBay store sellers who are selling the same kit at MSRP.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • From: Casa Grande, Az.
Posted by DesertRat on Monday, November 26, 2007 6:54 PM
 ajlafleche wrote:

Two words: auction and collectable.

Watch the Barretts/Jackson auto auctions on Speed when they come around. Cars that sold for $2500 new in the mid-sixties now routinely break the $100,000 mark.

I check the Barrett/Jackson frequently and that sure is an understatement! I guess compared to all the money that changes hands there, Ebay doesn't seem to bad after all...

Warmest regards,

Roger

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Monday, November 26, 2007 7:37 AM

Two words: auction and collectable.

Watch the Barretts/Jackson auto auctions on Speed when they come around. Cars that sold for $2500 new in the mid-sixties now routinely break the $100,000 mark.

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: OKC
Posted by stretchie on Sunday, November 25, 2007 2:44 PM

I suppose..................ebay is a strange place. Confused [%-)]  I've watched prices go higher than what I can get it for brand new.

 

guess i need to see if i have any stuff to put on ebay. Wink [;)] 

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Neenah, WI
Posted by HawkeyeHobbies on Sunday, November 25, 2007 10:09 AM
One mans trash is another mans treasure. If they've got the money, why not give them what they want and profit handsomely from it.

Gerald "Hawkeye" Voigt

http://hawkeyes-squawkbox.com/

 

 

"Its not the workbench that makes the model, it is the modeler at the workbench."

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, November 25, 2007 7:40 AM
I sold several 1/50th scale Tamiya and LS tanks for hundreds of dollars a piece back in Feburary. These were kits that were 40 years old and maybe cost me $5-10 a piece many years ago. I think I made about $1000 selling about a half dozen of these collector kits, most of which went to Japanese eBayers.
  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Sunday, November 25, 2007 5:43 AM

As far as I know, there's nothing particularly special about this kit, except for it being the original release version. In its time, it wasn't particularly rare or difficult to get.

I think the only special value it holds would be for someone who is dedicated to collecting the entire Tamiya collection and is willing to pay the asking price. (starting price $250/buy now $350)

The kit is still available as a current release, though updated with different markings and additional weapons. I think, as a builder, I would rather the later release, unless I specifically wanted the marking options included in the original kit, at $100 less than the starting price listed.

Still, if he gets the price he wants, good luck to him. (I wouldn't buy it, I have a 20-something year old one in the stash Laugh [(-D])

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: OKC
OOP kit prices
Posted by stretchie on Sunday, November 25, 2007 1:09 AM

I just ran across this:

This Tomcat

(wish I could figure out how to make a link......correctly....the first time.... Sad [:(] )

anyway.....is this for real????? are those kits actually worth that or are there drugs out that I don't know about???? if he gets it, it makes me wish i would have kept some of my older kits way back when....... 

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