1/35 Academy OH-58D Kiowa Warrior

Anyway really i might not really need them cause i am thinking of making a Australian version of this helo ?????? In two frames of minds
Anyway if i dont need the weapons i will put it on this post and if ya all ever can use them i might be able to help out???
Anyway Chat Later
Cya's
Robert

I guess you've gotta be a "Thug" to get the stingers!

Interresting. I built the Black Death version, it didn't have them. I was told only differance was the decals. Guess not.

well this auction is over but it does show the stinger missile packs http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5965467292&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

Here is the weapons loading diagram

Concur with Jon,
Academy OH-58D does not come with Stinger AAMs. Weapons load includes optional layouts with 2 2-missile Hellfire racks, 2 7-shot 2.75 rockets, and 1 .50 cal gun mount.

Mike,

Nope, not in the version I have. In fact, I briefly thought about stealing the Stingers from my AH-64D kit but then decided against it. If I ever do an OH-58C conversion, I'm going to do that with the ATAS (Air to Air Stinger) system.

Jon wasn't there some Stinger missiles included in the kits the photo's on the side of the box showed there were.

Thanks Jon
I couldn't find any reviews anywhere..
Thought one of you guys would be able to help out..... i was right
Sound like a good kit and cant wait to get it.
I have to wait for it to come from Malyasia..
So thanks, to all, for all your help and i will post some pics when i get started!!!
thankls Agian
Robert

Wooty,

I'm about 80% finished with mine, so I can give you a bit of a review.

OOB, the kit builds up into an accurate early OH-58D with the proper engine cowl and skid crosstubes for a Prime Chance / Desert Storm bird. Fit is excellent, although I did use super glue gel to fill some of the main fuselage seams. Particularly pesky was the seam in the exhaust area, but some super glue and lots of sanding eventually smoothed it out.

Since I added the Cutting Edge update set so I could build a current bird, some surgery was required. I removed the kit's cowl on the panel lines above the cabin up to the first major vertical panel line. This allows the Cutting Edge resin cowl to almost drop right in. It did need some sanding and test fitting, but looks really good once installed.

Because of the new cowl, I needed to cut a 1/4" x 1/8" notch in the top of the windscreen in order to get it to fit, but other than that, it fits PERFECTLY! I was worried about the fit of the clear parts initially, but there really is no need. They practically fall into place!

The hardest part I've had with this kit has been modifying the skids to accurately represent the current upturned crosstubes and vertical skid braces. For this, I pretty much took the kit crosstubes, sanded off the mounts and glued them to the fuselage upside down. The ends of the crosstubes were sanded so they were vertical and then I stretched sprue to the proper thickness and made four vertical posts that would mate to the crosstubes and the skids themselves. I'm in the process of detailing them now.

The cockpit detail is really nice for this bird. My only comment is that the aircraft commander's collective could definitely have more detail. The control panel is beautiful and very accurate from the photos I used for reference.

Weapons included are 1) Hellfire missiles, 2) rocket pods, and 3) .50 cal MG. I'm using the kit's .50 cal and one of the Cobra Company resin 7-shot rocket pods. The pod is actually a 32nd scale Vietnam-era pod, but it looks good, and I was able to modify it to current M260 standard. I drilled out three of the tube openings to simulate full tubes with HE rockets in them, while leaving four rocket noses poking out of the remaining four tubes as M225 Flechette rockets.

Hope that's helped a bit. It really is a great kit. I'm thinking about doing another one, just for fun!

UM....... One more thing if ya all dont mind??

Is there any kit reviews for this kit???
Any info would be greatly appreciated
Thanks

Pilots sound great Gino!
As for the back doors...............Well justifyed!!!
I might do the same .
Why cover up alll the best bits hey?
Thanks Cys
Robert

QUOTE: Originally posted by wooty So Gino are the figures well detailed with seatbelts on them and so forth??? Or will i have to get or scratch build a set for them? Did the KWs ever operate with the back doors open or were they fully enclosed to protect the gear in back? Robert

Robert, Yes the pilots have seat belts molded on and they are pretty well molded. There are a few knock off pin marks in some odd places, back of pilots helmets for on, that need filling. Nothing too bad though. Add boom mikes and you will be ready to go.

As to OH-58D without back doors. I have been told by an OH-58D IP that the back doors must remain on in flight or the fusalage could warp, an apparent design shortcoming. That said, I used artistic license and left mine off so you can see all the detail and extra work I did back there. Shame to cover it up with the doors. Mine is not in flight anyways. That is how I justify it.

So Gino are the figures well detailed with seatbelts on them and so forth???
Or will i have to get or scratch build a set for them?
Did the KWs ever operate with the back doors open or were they fully enclosed to protect the gear in back?
Robert

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trigger74 I like the aircrew that comes with it, you can use them with other helicopters in the same scale. Gino used a KW crew in one of his Black Hawks and they turned out awesome. I wish I had more copies of 'em.

Yup. Great figs for modern helo crews. I used them in my MH-6J MELB Littlebird as well. You can see them both at my Showcase III link below.

I like the aircrew that comes with it, you can use them with other helicopters in the same scale. Gino used a KW crew in one of his Black Hawks and they turned out awesome. I wish I had more copies of 'em.

I have built this kit, but it was one of my first and I am not knowledgable about the copter itself. It did build up nice, but I do have one comment, if you want to add the figures, be aware they are a tight fit in the cockpit.

I remember reading an article in either Time or Newsweek a few years after Prime Chance and one of the pilots was interviewed. He said of the altitude they flew at, "The lead helicopter was called the 'splashguard;' we figured if he gets wet, then we're too low."

Beleive Helo Drab is the correct color

They were Helo Drab. I'm not sure if I have the "Black Death" or "Thugs" version of the kit. I got it from my LHS at 50-75% off that day. I think its BD but I'm not sure. Do you want me to check and post any relevant info from that instruction sheet?

Wooty,

The other version of this kit, the "Black Death" includes specific PRIME CHANCE information and markings. I'm not sure how accurate they are, but then again I've chosen to go with a current issue Kiowa Warrior. Had one of my furrballs not used the box and instructions (but thankfully none of the kit parts!) as his personal litterbox, I'd post all of the pertinent info here. Oh well...

Man you can always have as much free time as you want on this topic!!!!
Thanks for the very great post Grant!!!
One more ? though
What where the OH-58s paint color whilst in the Gulf?
I was gona paint it in a overall MM US Army Helo Drab but something more interesting would be ideal. ( Not Saying that the MM US Drab is boreing. Just the fact that if they were a certain color in the Gulf, well i would i would like mine to be that color aswell!!!
Thanks Again fellas for all the info....
Robert

No prob John. I had to look up TF158 myself actually. It sounded familiar but I couldn't quite place it until I hit the 160ths website and brushed up on their history some.

And yes, I had WAY too much free time this morning.

Thanks Trigger, that's what I thought but didn't have the details in front of me

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandadjohn TF158 used them in the Persian gulf during thr Iran/Iraq war in the 80's

TF158 was actually the lead-in unit to the 160th SOAR that was formed shortly after Operation Eagle Claw (Iran, 1980)

More specifically (or more famously), KWs were used during Operation Prime Chance circa 1987-89.

Task Force 118 was officially formed and designated on the 24th of November 1987 at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. The planning order was issued in September of 1987 at which time organization and planning began. Task Force was specifically organized for night overwater reconnaissance, surveillance, and aerial attack. Army Aviation AH-58D's (same thing as OH-58D, just the mission changed)and crews were selected due to specific mission equipment requirements and enhanced night vision capabilities. These capabilities did not exist within U.S. Naval and U.S. Marine Corps aviation assets. Task Force 118 deployed its first fully trained detachment of two aircraft and associated personnel on 18 February 1988 to the Persian Gulf. The mission was to occupy a Mobile Sea Base (MSB) afloat in the Northern Persian Gulf. and conduct small boat surveillance and anti-mining operations on a sustained basis. During the next three months Task Force 118 deployed three additional detachments to the Persian Gulf. One detachment occupied another MSB while the other detachments were deployed to Guided Missile Frigate's (FFG). MSB's were stationed in the Northern Persian Gulf to influence Iranian attack vessels and mining operations often staged from Farsi Island or related oil fields within that region. FFG's were primarily assigned to escort duty with civil shipping transiting the Persian Gulf. No defensive capabilities existed on civil shipping which made them easy prey for Iranian gunboats staging numerous attacks from the Straits of Hormuz or Iranian islands and oil fields throughout the Gulf.

Due to the sensitivity of the mission, initial classification for all TF 118 operations was SECRET (special category). All personnel were briefed and signed disclosure statements. Aircraft configurations and operations have since been declassified. Initial selection of personnel began at a mission planning cell located at Fort Rucker, Alabama. Key personnel were selected based on aircraft experience, NVG experience and other special qualifications. Personnel were assigned from numerous Army installations. Additional assignments of pilots were made from the existing organization designated to receive the OH-58D Target Acquisition element at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

Training began at Fort Rucker, Alabama in October of 1987. The training was phased for arriving personnel and varying levels of experience. Initial unit training and special mission/equipment training began for OH-58D qualified instructor pilots and pilots. Two OH-58D standardization instructor pilots were assigned from the U.S. Army Aviation Directorate of Evaluation and Standardization to assist in training and development of tactics. Subject Matter Expert's with actual overwater NVG mission experience were available to advise, assist, and train. This factor assured that lessons learned in other such special situations were applied during trainup and implemented into unit operations. The OH-58D had not been previously armed and this development required weapons training of assigned personnel. The AH-58D had not been fully developed yet. Initial training was conducted in OH-58D aircraft or partially modified AH-58's.

The first two months of training concentrated primarily on basic NVG skills and water survival. NVG training focused on formation flying skills over land. Crews learned to fly as teams with very few radio calls, techniques were polished so that these tasks became routine and they were later performed without conscious thought. These first essential steps in the building block served to highlight the difficulty and danger of the task at hand. During this same period aircrews were conducting Helicopter Dunker and Helicopter Emergency Egress Device training at Pensacola Florida. Water Survival and Search and Rescue training were performed at Homestead Air Force Base, Florida. Pilots were extracted and conducted extractions as aircrewman using equipment temporarily mounted to OH-58D aircraft (all mission aircraft were later equipped with SAR devices).

All Persian Gulf operations are staged from U.S. Naval vessels or Mobile Sea Base platforms. Subsequently all aircrews were Deck Landing Qualified (DLQ) aboard the Helicopter Landing Trainer (HLT 514) and aboard naval ships. Initial DLQ was conducted at Pensacola, Florida. Aviators were required to perform day, night, NVG field deck landing practice and day, night, NVG landings to the single spot deck. Aircrewman and maintainence personnel later participated in additional water survival training (Deep Water Survival) at Pensacola. Upon conclusion of this training the first armed aircraft were delivered. Academic Gunnery training began in December of 1987 with live firing in January of 1988. Weapons training included, day and NVG qualification over land and overwater. Crews qualified in .50 caliber machine gun and 2.75 FFAR with flechette, HE, and submunition warheads mated to Mark 66 Mod 2 motors. All weapons training included academics with the assistance of military instructors and manufacturers technical representatives. After completing captive flight devices aviators gualified with live missiles in both singer and hellfire systems. Aircraft were special eqiupped with:

1. Loran C navigation device.
2. AN/APR 44 Radar warning device.
3. AN/ALQ 144 IR Jamming device.
4. SAR caving ladder, extraction rope.
5. TACAN navigation set.
6. Audio/Visual Tape Recorder.
7. Software integration for overwater applications.

These additional systems and devices required academic training and because some systems were off the shelf modifications training by trial and error became necessary. As aircraft integration neared completion aircrews were finishing individual skill training.

Personnel were joined into teams of five aviators. Team training started in January of 1988. Subject matter experts with actual mission experience were instrumental in guiding team tactical development. Aircrews performed simulated missions from actual naval vessels in the Atlantic Ocean off the coasts of Virginia. Threat assessment classes were taught and special warfare craft were used to increase realism. Army Aviators learned to operate their aircraft in a maritime environment and to integrate with U.S. Naval forces. This period also served as a trials for AH-58D multi-aircraft operations from single spot naval decks. AH-58D teams flew in coordination with shipboard Combat Information Center (CIC) and under Naval aircraft Light Airborne Multi-purpose Systems (LAMPS). LAMPS or CIC served as radar coverage agencies and were used to acquire contacts of interest and vector AH-58D's. AH-58D's provided additional acquisition capability but were primarily used to identify and report important information under night time conditions. AH-58D's became extensions of the platforms they were deployed aboard and complimented organic weapon systems. Certification or teams was conducted upon completion of training. Directorate of Evaluation and Standardization in cooperation with Subject Matter Experts completed initial certifications. Each team trained in this manner and completed a certification prior to deployment.

The first team deployed to a Mobile Sea Base (MSB) on 18 February 1988. Two MSB's were in existence at that time. There was significant difference in size of platforms though operations were largely similar. Both platforms were manned primarily by Navy and Marine personnel and commanded by a Naval commander. All operations by Army aircraft were in conjunction with MSB support assets. Mission planning was conducted by the flight leader. This included interface with MSB assets. Briefings were conducted in the presence of the MSB commander, special boat units, medical corpmen, aircrews, maintenance team leader, and intelligence personnel. Briefings were thorough and covered all aspects of the mission to be performed. during the hours of darkness aircrews, aircraft and maintenance personnel were on constant alert. Typical periods of operations included a full fuel load flight before and after midnight in the MSB's sector of operation. Sometimes multiple sorties were flown as situation dictated. Aircraft were kept loaded but not armed prior to missions. Aircraft were always hangared by day and kept on deck at night when situation permitted (Often on FFG's or DDG's the deck must be cleared immediately after recovery to allow landing and hangaring of LAMPS aircraft). Aircrews could launch aircraft fully loaded in as little as 3-4 minutes when aircraft were on the deck. Two hangared aircraft aboard an FFG could be pushed out, blades unfolded, armed, cranked and launched in as little as 8-10 minutes. Pilots and enlisted flight teams worked together to accomplish these drills. Cross training between crewmembers and maintenance flight teams was necessary and normal operation. Enlisted flight team personnel could perform many functions normally only done by one man with appropriate MOS. Both aircraft were staged from the MSB's and FFG's alike. Only one platform had a multi-spot deck and it became necessary to stage both aircraft from single spot decks in the interest of operational parameters. During conditions of high sea states or high winds only one aircraft would be staged. Once aircraft were airborne they would perform NVG linkup. Tow aircraft were always flown. The lead aircraft would normally perform reconnaissance, surveillance and suppressive fire when necessary, except when performing deliberate attacks. Formation would normally be right or left echelon in a traveling overwatch type technique. Separation between aircraft depended on flight conditions and threat assessment. Crews could perform formation flight at 3-5 rotor disks separation if the situation dictated. Maintaining flight integrity was imperative and mutual security depended highly on this factor. Teams operated in a similar manner to typical aeroscouts principals with the advantages of armament and thermal image sensing. AH-58D teams were expected to perform attack roles. Procedures were developed for varying threats, situations and weapons. Procedures were dictated by actual or perceived threats which motivated keen interest by aircrew members. Many control measures existed for teams operating in the Persian Gulf. Military and civil ships transited areas of operations. Many countries had territorial waters close to transit areas. A declared war zone "Exclusion Zone, The Line of Death" existed and split the Gulf from North to South. Rules of Engagement were detailed and specific.

Navigation was primarily accomplished by radar vectoring. Teams were capable of point to point navigation by Loran C. This capability was used primarily in the Northern Persian Gulf where good signal reception existed. FFG crews were forced to home to the mother ship by Tacan signal. This feature was not reliable because ships turned off Tacan (Father) in vulnerable areas (Silkworm envelopes). AH-58D's were equipped with inertial nav systems but were subject to accuracy error from false Doppler return in overwater applications. Contacts were always approached as hostile. Each contact was recorded through a VCR linked to the thermal image. Voice reporting was conducted via CIC or LAMPS which was data linked to CIC. Contacts were numbered, marked on radar and specific information provided. AH-58D's provided defense, screening and attack capability to their assigned vessel or convoy. Recovery to the MSB's were multi-ship landings. To FFG's and DDG's multi-ship landings were conducted when situation permitted. All recoveries were with NVG's. This required a high degree of aviator proficiency especially during frequent periods of poor visibility, low illumination and high sea states. Rearm and refuel procedures could be conducted hot or cold. Maintenance personnel staged additional ammunition for contingencies. Thorough debriefings were conducted to critique flight procedures, commander's were informed of all pertinent data.

During Persian Gulf deployments Task Force 118 personnel have endured high stress, long separations, harsh flight conditions, cramped living quarters and real threats. They have performed beyond expectations. Tactics have been validated from real use. The importance placed on trainup and individual task proficiency could not have understated because our lives depend on it. The level of startup experience in related airframes proved essential to success. As with all aviation operations lessons learned and passed on and self improvement are perpetually necessary. A constructive atmosphere of self-criticism refines operations. All of Army Aviation may benefit from the experiences gained as a result of Operation Prime Chance II. Many further applications may be derived from airframe developments. The potential of Task Force 118 and the AH-58D has yet to be realized. The organization in its present confiquration is capable of ARMED RECONNAISSANCE TODAY.

Michael P. Fyfe
CW2, RA
AH-58D SIP

Note:
This article was written by CW2 Fyfe and placed in the Unit History book as one of the few unclassified documents that details the initial formation and train-up of Task Force 118.

Nightstalkers were involved with Prime Chance too with gray-painted MH-60A Velcro Hawks (aka "Grayhawks") and AH/MH-6 Little Birds as well as Operation Earnest Will (Armed escort of re-flagged tankers)

Thanks for taking tiome out from your g/f just to reply to this.
Sounds like a great kit and with a little extra care i should be able to pull this one off.
Will have a look at your pics and when i get started i shall show some of mine to.
Thanks
Robert

Wooty,

Gotta make this one quick, since I've still got one more day of spring break!
The Kiowa kit is GREAT! Good detail, pretty good fit, and cool armament options. If you're up for a little surgery, the Cutting Edge update set is well worth the additional expense and will bring your KW up to post 1998 standard with the larger cowl, GPS antennas and other detail bits. I'm about 70% finished with mine now (see pics on the Attack Helo GB forum) and I'm looking forward to getting home tomorrow night and getting back to work on it.

Will post more once I get back to Lubbock. In the meantime, having a great time in Dallas with the g/f and her family!

Ok Thanks for the info there guys hopefully when the historian comes back he can gt on it for me????
Thanks Again
Robert

TF158 used them in the Persian gulf during thr Iran/Iraq war in the 80's