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Bad news for Bell and the LUH

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  • Member since
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Bad news for Bell and the LUH
Posted by UH-1V_CE on Friday, September 9, 2005 10:31 PM
Looks like I was wrong about the Huey II being the Army's LUH. With the Bell 210 being out of the mix, Bell is sure to lose the bid. The Bell 412 will be the most expensive out of the remaining aircraft and it will be too big. Say hello to the UH-145 from Eurocopter (Disapprove [V]YUKDisapprove [V]). We will see.Sad [:(]

Company poised to drop 210 for more powerful model

Bell Helicopter may switch the aircraft it plans to offer the US Army for a $1.3 billion contract for 322 light utility helicopters (LUH). Industry sources say the company is expected to drop the 210 model and offer the twin-engined 412EP. Bell insists the 210 LUH is still the basis for its proposal, but admits the 412EP would be considered if the army indicates it wants a more powerful twin-engined aircraft. The company has marketed the 210 as the quickest solution with the lowest cost.

The army has hundreds of Bell UH-1Hs in its inventory that can be refurbished to the 210 standard, and Bell has plans to build a facility in Tennessee to perform the work. However, US Federal Aviation Administration certification for the 210 was delayed by several months before approval came in July and a source says the interruption disrupted efforts to prepare for the LUH proposal.

Most of Bell’s competitors are already basing their proposals on twin-engined aircraft. EADS North America says Eurocopter’s EC135 light twin fell short of some of the army’s performance requirements, so it offered the heavier EC145. Lockheed Martin has teamed with MD Helicopters to offer the twin-turbine MD 902 Explorer. AgustaWestland also plans to participate, but has not said if it will offer the single-engined A119 Koala or the A109 Power twin.

It is not clear how a shift to a twin-engined type will affect the army’s ability to afford an order for 322 aircraft. The Bell 210 is expected to cost about $3 million per aircraft, which easily fits with the army budget. A twin-engined aircraft costing perhaps $4-6 million each may force the army to reduce the order number or seek more funding.

The service is seeking the LUH fleet to perform basic airlift and disaster relief missions mainly in the USA. The LUH will not be exposed to battlefield conditions, but will relieve the logistics burden on the army’s Sikorsky UH-60 Black Hawk utility helicopters.
Crew Chiefs keep em up!
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:55 AM
Shame to hear that.
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  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:04 AM
Hate to hear that, especially right after the HUEY proved itself again
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Posted by UH-1V_CE on Saturday, September 10, 2005 2:08 PM
Sad to say, it appears it will be the EC145
Crew Chiefs keep em up!
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  • From: USA
Posted by RotorheadTX on Saturday, September 10, 2005 5:45 PM
A shame about the 210 indeed - but Bell still has the new scout programme, right?

With the A-109 Power already in the inventory as the MH-68, that would seem a logical alternative .......
""Expect nothing - that way you won't be surprised when it's precisely what you get.""
  • Member since
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  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Saturday, September 10, 2005 7:19 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by RotorheadTX

A shame about the 210 indeed - but Bell still has the new scout programme, right?

Further still, picking up the EC-145 is another example of typical Pentagon stupidity; the A-109 Power is already in the inventory as the MH-68!! Duuuuh Rummy!

Of course the lib-dem in me laughs out loud at Bush's Pentagon having to eat **** and buy (primarily) French-built helicopters!!!!!


Here we go with the political BS.

First the LUH hasn't been selected yet. Bell still could win the contract. I'm sure if the MH-68A/A-109 Power meets all the requirements, it will be selected. Just because it is already in the inventory, doen't mean it is the right aircraft for the job. The best helicopter to meet the needs will be chosen. No matter who makes/designed it, it will most likely be license-built by a US company anyways. I would love to see the Huey soldier on as well, but if something else can do the job better, and cheaper, then that is the helo to go with.

By the way, Rumsfeld has nothing to do with selecting the helo. The decision is made way below his level.

Why don't we keep misguided personal politics out of it and focus on the helos and models of them.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
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Posted by UH-1V_CE on Saturday, September 10, 2005 8:44 PM
I think what started out as a good idea is turning out to be yet another expensive mistake by the Army. The Army wanted something cost effective, off the shelf and in a reasonable amount of time. Bell offered that with the 210. The other aircraft would cost in the range of 4 to six mil (412 being at the 6 mil mark). It would cost about 2.5 mil for each aircraft and, I think about 6 months to convert one. It is no frills of course, but thats what you need in the Army. Not to mention the cost of training crews to fix these new aircraft. I was told by someone in the mix that the mechanics for these new birds will have to be A&P trained, which is nuts. How are reservists going to get time off for that. Most of us have already been away from our jobs for 2 years worth of deployments. I weekend drill school would take 2 years to get through that. The Bell 210 would require a light trasition compared to all that other bull! Another thing is that it is going to meet the needs of medevac and raid?????? Two very different missions. I just can't see how one airframe will be good at both. A modified ARH should be used for raid. I just dont see how going from and a four crew, 10 passenger and 3 litter configuration to a 6 passenger, 2 litter configeration (and room for one crew member in the back ONLY) is a good thing.
Crew Chiefs keep em up!
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  • From: USA
Posted by RotorheadTX on Saturday, September 10, 2005 11:03 PM
QUOTE: Here we go with the political BS.

Why don't we keep misguided personal politics out of it and focus on the helos and models of them.


You're right, it was stupid, cheap, and gratuitous. I apologize to all and will edit the posting.

But there is one angle that I failed to look at it from - the old evil of inter-service rivalry. Why isn't the Army looking at the UH-1Y?? The Marines are bearing the load for getting this bird fielded, and it would seem to make sense that if the Army needs a Huey replacement they should look at the evolved Huey!
""Expect nothing - that way you won't be surprised when it's precisely what you get.""
  • Member since
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  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Sunday, September 11, 2005 9:46 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by RotorheadTX

QUOTE: Here we go with the political BS.

Why don't we keep misguided personal politics out of it and focus on the helos and models of them.


You're right, it was stupid, cheap, and gratuitous. I apologize to all and will edit the posting.

But there is one angle that I failed to look at it from - the old evil of inter-service rivalry. Why isn't the Army looking at the UH-1Y?? The Marines are bearing the load for getting this bird fielded, and it would seem to make sense that if the Army needs a Huey replacement they should look at the evolved Huey!


No problem, just keeping it focused.

As to the UH-1Y, I think it is cost. I don't know the exact figure, but I am sure the Y model is way more expensive than what the Army is looking for. The Y is quite the advanced system and quite costly. Also, the USMC are the ones who wanted and developed the Y model as well, it fits their needs better than the UH-60.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
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  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, September 11, 2005 5:14 PM
With all those old D/H models sitting there, it would be nice to see them go back in service with new life(also it would be nice to go to an airshow and see one of my old birds)
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 14, 2005 3:35 PM
QUOTE: just trying to keep the site relevant to modeling. Plenty of chat boards and forums out there for pilots and helos as well. Since it is a modeling site, lets stick to modeling relevant issues.
  • Member since
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  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, October 15, 2005 9:30 AM
We're always discussing these type of things in the helo forum
  • Member since
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Posted by UH-1V_CE on Saturday, October 15, 2005 10:48 AM
Bell's submission is the 412EP, which seems to be alittle pricey. Here are the helicopters up for the LUH:
Bell 412 EP (too old and expensive)
MD 902 (Army dosnt want NOTAR)
AB 139 (too big and army dosnt want retractable landing gear)
UH 145 (ugly as hell)

My bet is that the EC 145 (uh-145) will be the winner. I am not a happy camper
Crew Chiefs keep em up!
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  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, October 15, 2005 11:02 AM
When is the Army going to announce the winner
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  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Saturday, October 15, 2005 11:33 AM
Wow, so our choices are:

Pretty, but too expensive and has skids,
Ugly, no tail rotor and has skids,
Pretty, but too big and has retractable gear
or Hideously ugly, and has skids.

WHO CAME UP WITH THIS FRIGGIN COMPETITION????
"1-6 is in hot"
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Posted by UH-1V_CE on Saturday, October 15, 2005 1:09 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Cobrahistorian

Wow, so our choices are:

Pretty, but too expensive and has skids,
Ugly, no tail rotor and has skids,
Pretty, but too big and has retractable gear
or Hideously ugly, and has skids.

WHO CAME UP WITH THIS FRIGGIN COMPETITION????



Leave it to the Army to mess it up. The Bell 210 would have been fine, but they really want to get away from the huey and anything like it. The y think it makes them look old and out of date. I hope they go with the 412, but I doubt it, being I know how they army works.Approve [^]
Crew Chiefs keep em up!
  • Member since
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  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Saturday, October 15, 2005 1:38 PM
Yes. leave it to the Army to mess it up
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, October 15, 2005 5:35 PM
This kind of thing isnt new or just limited to the Army .
CFR
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