help needed-AH-64 canopy framework painting

It is best to paint the interior of the frame black.  If you only do the exterior, the interior will look glossy and you will see the depth of the glass.  Not sure on the best method for the line.  In 1/48th, would it really be visible anyways?  If so, probably the best way to do it would be with a small brush and a steady hand.

Good luck. 

The grey line is the sealant used to make the glass waterproof. Cut thin lines of light to medium grey decal to work at the length you need.  This line is THIN on the real thing, so you may want to omit it.   Here is a good reference pic for you. I would do this with thin decal strip, my masking would probably leave it ragged....

David

Guys,

That is NOT sealant.  Its Det Cord.  The Apache has a canopy removal system and the four side panels of the canopy are lined with Det Cord to blow the windows out if we crash.  It varies in shade from Light Gull Gray to almost a yellowish.  I tend to mask my canopies, paint the inner ring of gray first and then paint the Helo Drab over it.  I also paint the interior of the canopy flat black, just like the real deal!

HTH,

Jon
 

Cobrahistorian wrote:

Guys, That is NOT sealant.  Its Det Cord.  The Apache has a canopy removal system and the four side panels of the canopy are lined with Det Cord to blow the windows out if we crash.  It varies in shade from Light Gull Gray to almost a yellowish.  I tend to mask my canopies, paint the inner ring of gray first and then paint the Helo Drab over it.  I also paint the interior of the canopy flat black, just like the real deal! HTH, Jon

If there are any Apache mechs out there, they can set me straight but let me throw this out there.  If you are seeing gray around the edges of the wind screen (front), this is likely sealant.  I know that this is true on the -60 and the width of it depends on the care and skill applied when installing the wind screen.  I haven't noticed this so much on the -64 but it may use a different method to seal the glass.  I believe the egress (side) windows on the Apache are replaced as an assembly so the edges are normally neat and clean.

Mac

Here's a good shot showing the difference.  The sealant is on the outer edge around the rivets and is exposed to the elements.  The det cord is on the interior edge and is inside the cockpit.

Not sure what's done about the armored glass windscreens.  They seem pretty clean to me.

Jon

Cobrahistorian wrote:

....Not sure what's done about the armored glass windscreens.  They seem pretty clean to me. Jon

The armored glass may be sealed another way.  On a -60, the panel with frame is set in place, secured with screws, sealed and the WSPS frames (center panel) are installed.  If there is not enough time to paint over the sealant after it has cured, there will be a gray line around the wind screen.  This gray line can be anywhere from aircraft gray to almost black depending on how the sealant was mixed.

If you look closely at Army helicopters, the sealant will be noticeable in a number of places against the green paint.  It can be a fairly easy way to add some seemingly intricate detail to an OOB kit.

Mac

Hey all! Apache Mech here. Worked as both a Crew Chief and a phase Team leader through most of my activie duty time.

I concur with Cobrahistorian. That grey line is indeed the det cord (god knows i've ripped my hair out over having to replace it). However there is also a thin bead of a rubberlike protective sealant (aka Proseal) around the canopy windows on all sides. However those are normally painted over in the usual CARC olive drab- unless it was scraped off and replaced for maintenance reasons that is. The det cord is indeed that light grey. And while i'm not that good with color matching yet, i think you should be just fine with a light gull grey.

 One suggestion i might venture- if i may. You might want to consider adding a small thin med. grey line around the forward part of each of the forward avionics bays towards the nose. Reason being that during each Phase inspection (due every 250 flight hours) those must be removed for inspection/repair. They require that bead of Proseal i mentioned above and often times it tends stand out a bit depending on who applies the stuff. Good luck to ya, and if you have anymore questions on the apache, feel free to send me a message!

You have to love this forum.  Here I ask for help on a very basic painting technique and I get a dissertation from some very obvious experts in the field who are working on 1 to 1 scale helicopters.

I asked for it and I got it.  Thanks for all the good info.  Keep those rotor blades turning.

Mike

Great to see another -64 guy on the forum!  There are a couple of us who lurk here from time to time.  Good tip on the EFAB sealant, I hadn't even thought of that.  The birds out at Hanchey always have that stuff sprayed over immediately.  The new spray paint tends to fade at a muc different rate than the original CARC, so it fades rather differently! 

I'm currently building a model of the first Longbow I ever flew.  Should be entering it at the Anniston, AL show in May.

Take care!

Jon
 

Yeah, and i actualy thought that i was the only one! Who knew?

 I guess depending on how nitpicky one wants to get, there's plenty of proseal and that yellow primer on both the main rotor and tail rotor heads (god knows that i've ruined many a uniform because of that stuff). And with weathering and all, it seems that there were always hydraulic fluid residue on the right side of the fuselage just behind the engine nacelle. Ya get some spillage from the lines when disconnecting the AGPU from the GSE panels. Just food for thought...

   But like i said, i'll get some pictures up tonight if at all possible

Ok, i wanted to get the images directly on the thread here, but somehow i can't seem to get it to work for me. I dunno why! But at least i can post the links taking you to em off of my onfinite account. There's 6 pictures here: i still have a bunch more that need to be scanned. But it shows you a few parts of the aircraft that many don't often get to see- in a condition that is usually not all that common to the public. Some of these pictures weren't taken under the best of conditions, but there are some details that might be useful. Let me know if there are certain parts of the aircraft you need to see. I'll see if i got em. I hope these will help ya out!

This one here kinda gives you a better picture of some of the smaller details of the tail rotor head with the access panels removed:

http://onfinite.com/libraries/1115355/4ff.jpg

This one gives you a full view of the right side to include the armament, pilot/CPG stations, Main rotor head (minus blades), and main landing gear:

http://onfinite.com/libraries/1115357/583.jpg

A little more close up view to the weapon racks, and the wing as seen from the left side:

http://onfinite.com/libraries/1115358/e5b.jpg

A view of the #1 engine as it sits in the left nacelle and the main rotor head with blades but no Air Data Sensor (ADS):

http://onfinite.com/libraries/1115359/11f.jpg

And this last one is of the tail landing gear and the stabilator while disconnected from actuator (that lighter green boxy looking piston with the rag sitting on top) and the cover panel off. note the blue hydraulic lines that come up from underneath. Also note the stains on top of the airfoil. One of the most common stains on the aircraft due to grease and hydraulic fluid coming from the tail rotor assembly:

http://onfinite.com/libraries/1115360/6d9.jpg

Yeah, and the mustache wasn't my idea either, but i digress....

Anyways, i hope that helps you some. Like i said, i need to scan some more here really soon. I'd post a few more that i have, but it seems that you can only post so many at a time on Onfinite when you have a free membership. Let me know if you need anything else!

Ok, i wanted to get the images directly on the thread here, but somehow i can't seem to get it to work for me. I dunno why!

To get your pictures to show, all you have to do is place them between the image tags, like such:  [ img ] place url here [/ im g ]  only without the spaces.

 Like this:  [ img ] http://onfinite.com/libraries/1115355/4ff.jpg [ / img]

Without the spaces, you get this:

You can also use the button that looks like a tree on the post page to insert the image tags, then place your url between them.

Nice pics.

Roger,

I've been a friend of the Apache community for a few years, but have been flying them here at Rucker since August.  Just started flying goggles tonight and will be starting gunnery on Monday. Finally get to blow some stuff up!

I got fairly well known in the Apache community three years ago when I was researching my book on the -64 in Afghanistan and Iraq.  It came out in July 2005 and has gotten a lot of positive commentary.  The feedback I've gotten from the community has been great.  Of course, they love to rub my nose in it too, but that's ok! 

Once I'm done here at Rucker I've gotta head out to WAATS for the A model course and then I'll be back up in PA.

Jon
 

well whaddya know....

Ok, i know we are probably getting off topic here, but i'm really curious now. I came back from Afghanistan back in may 05. Some of those pictures posted were from Kandahar. Were you familiar with any of the guys running phase maintenance and out on the line there?

   ANd i take it you're doing WOC flight training, huh? Best of luck! All of the pilots i ever crewed for were certainly prima donnas, but they swore up and down that only gunship pilots were true pilots. Good luck Sir!

I'm liking the photo of the 'heavy hog' configuration. Good stuff.

Andy

Heh... Go Guns Or Go Home! 

I'm actually a commissioned guy, but my class is just about a 40/60 mix of 2LTs and WO1s.   Unfortunately I don't know many maintenance guys outside of Hanchey.  Although infrequent visitors, there are two other guys on here who fly Longbows and a friend of mine who's a maintainer out at Hanchey.  

 Jon

Jon,

   I can't say that i've ever crewed for many commisioned officers, since most pilots are usually WOs. But either way if you haven't run into anybody that i knoew, then i'm for certain that you will eventually. Who knows? Maybe some of these other guys that were in the line of fire in these pics.

   Ya mentioned that you'll be headed to Pennsylvania. I'm assuming EAATS? I'm on the wait list, but i'm likely gonna be there for april/may of this year. 15T transition course. I woulda preferred to stay a 15R, but with the MTOE reset i didn't have much choice. Who know? I may run into ya there! I'd like to see your book. Where can i find it? Any bookstores here?

DesertRat wrote:

Jon,    I can't say that i've ever crewed for many commisioned officers, since most pilots are usually WOs. But either way if you haven't run into anybody that i knoew, then i'm for certain that you will eventually. Who knows? Maybe some of these other guys that were in the line of fire in these pics.    Ya mentioned that you'll be headed to Pennsylvania. I'm assuming EAATS? I'm on the wait list, but i'm likely gonna be there for april/may of this year. 15T transition course. I woulda preferred to stay a 15R, but with the MTOE reset i didn't have much choice. Who know? I may run into ya there! I'd like to see your book. Where can i find it? Any bookstores here?

Hey Roger,

I may get up to EAATS before you leave, trying to get a shortfall for BNCOC.  My date is in Sep but I am trying to get it done ASAP.

BTW (stand by for a shameless jab at the Apache community)  Welcome to the world of flying helicopters.

Mac

And to think I used to make parachute jumps out of your perfectly good aircraft!  Of course they were Hueys but they provided a reasonably stable platform.  Good luck on exiting an Apache!

Mike McShea

Right on, Mac! If i don't get into the april class, then i'll probably be there about september time frame (i think that's the next scheduled class). I'm outta Los Alamitos, BTW. Think maybe ya guys might've heard of it. But all airframe preference aside, in my heart i'll always be a 13F!

   Sorry to hijack your thread Mass Tac. Not my intent. But as you can see the army aviation pool of knowledge seems to run pretty deep. I don't know if those pictures helped out much, but if there is anything i can do to get you some references here, or even to pick my brain, then i'll be glad to help ya out! How about you? Got any pictures of the project a-brewin there? Would love to see how it's going with the gunship!

All the way!  My last jump was at Bragg with the Divarty target acquisiton battery in 83.  I was an FO with the 101, while it was still all airborne, at Campbell.  I once thought I would like to wear your aviator wings but after making a few hot lz landings in Nam and seeing some comrads go down in flames, I came to my senses.  You guys that fly rotary wing aircraft really have my respect.

Mike

Yep, I'll be flying out of Muir AAF once I'm done.  Should be up there September-ish, so if you guys are around, definitely drop me a line! 

As for my books, I did two for the Osprey Combat Aircraft series, Vol 42 on the Cobra in Vietnam and Vol 57 on the Apache in Iraq.  They're both available at Amazon and most major bookstores.

Later!

Jon 

Will do, Jon! Who knows? The army aviation community is pretty small. If we don't meet up there, it's bound to happen sooner or later.

 I think i just might have seen those books! Yeah, gimme a reason to run to the bookstore! I dare ya!

Who knows, maybe we will all end up there at the same time and go to the Wagon Wheel for some fine dinning.

Mac