UH-1C Main Rotor Head Details Additional Pics

Andy,

Thanks for showing us your UH-1C Academy Rotorhead.  I for one have saved them for when i finally break my Academy kit out.  That rotorhead of thiers has always turned me off to the kit.  You did a bangup job on it.

Regards

Steve

Hey Ray,

Yes, I flew the E operationally and the UH-1L/Th-1L and E as an instructor in HT-18. 

There may be semanics here, but the Marines got a load of UH-1B's (20) from the Army in 1966 and 67 to fill a shortfall of ordered UH-1E's.  The B was marginal for the marines due to no rotorbreak which is needed for shipboard use (I forgot to mention the rotorbreak in my above comments).  The loaners were mostly used in the states for training but some got to VN.  Thats why you'll see some of those counterwieghts on Marine birds.  They may be painted Marine green but they were your standard B underneigth.  All the surviving B's were eventually returned to the Army.

From my understanding very few UH-1L's were produced and all went to the HAL squadrons who needed the bigger engine.  There were a few airframe casualties in VN but all the rest went back to the training command to soldier on.  My "numbers" include UH-1Es, UH-1Ls and TH-1Ls.  I know of no HH-1Ks there, but then a K is nothing but an L.  That was a time that the Marines were moving to the UH-1N so they were getting rid of the E.  There was no lack of airframes for HT-18.

The Marines had several HH-1Ks as SAR birds also, but again if you need a K and only T/UH-1Ls are available..voila, you have an HH-1K.  I could be wrong about the K if it included special Electical components for MEDEVAC equipment.

Regards

Steve

Steve,

  Did you fly Echos's?  The E model was built after both the B and C model Hueys (depending on the production date) with the differences you noted above.  Mutza's Huey Gunship's Walkaround shows both versions of the Echo.  Also, are you aware of any Navy units that used the Echo in Vietnam?  As far as I know, the Echo was exclusively a Marine bird, although variants of it (UH-1L, TH-1L, and HH-1K were used by the Navy).  By the end of 1970, HAL-3 had 27 UH-1B's, 2 UH-1C's, 4 UH-1L's and 2 HH-1K's (the third HH-1K delivered to HAL-3  ditched in the Gulf of Thailand on 26th of November soon after delivery) (source:Vietnam Choppers, Simon Dunston, pp. 160-161). 

  I have 4 sources (Vietnam Choppers-Simon Dunston, Bell UH-1 Super Profile-Christpher Chant, Uh-1 Huey In Action- Wayne Mutza, and Huey-Lou Drendel) that all agree that the HH-1K was originally built as a SAR aircraft and was identical to the later UH-1E's, with the 540 rotor system, except for T53-L13 engine and improved avionics.  Three of the four sources confirm that 27 examples of the HH-1K were built.  Two sources also mention that three aircraft were sent to HAL-3 in 1970.

  Incidentally, three of the above sources agree that only 8 Uh-1L's were built, but they disagree on the number of TH-1L's.  Mutza and Drendel say 45 were built, but Chant says 90 were built.  Based on your numbers, I have to assume that Chant is correct. I'm always looking for more info, so feel free to correct or add to this data.

   Thanks,

         Ray
 

Hello Ed,

The UH-1E was a "Navalized" UH-1C.  That is with aluminum structure instead of magnesium for shipboard use, and of course different radios.  The biggest engine in this model was the Dash 11.  The E was always my preference due to fairly good gas milage. 

The UH-1L and TH-1L are nearly identical.  Same as the E except for the Dash 13 engine.  The TH-1L was minus any armament gear and had dual IFR panels.  The hard points were still there.  All the surviving UH-1Ls and the less banged up UH-1Es migrated to NAS Whiting Field to HT-18 the advanced helo trainning squadron.  Once they made thier first trips to rework (and repaint) it was hard to tell them from the TH-1Ls.  At one time HT-18 had 74 UH-TH-1Ls assigned.  Big operation!

I had always thought the HH-1Ks were just reworked TH-UH-1Ls.  If not, then it would be easy enough to just rework them as the Engine and Hoist were the same.

Regards

Steve

Ray/Mel:

 My records show 154777 thru 154780, 154943 thru 154944, 154945 thru 154969, 155337 thru 155354, and 157851 thru 157858 as being UH-1E/UH-1L. I don't know if anyone knows exaclty what a UH-1E/UH-1L is. Probably the same cabins with Navy or Marine peculiar items for either E or L depending on what it went down the line as. My guess is they are real close to being same. Something as simple as instrument lighting color or some decals could make it an E or a L.

TH-1L serial numbers this is Navy trainer. 157806 thru 157850

HH-1K serial numbers 157177 thru 157203, . I was at NAS Whiting Field in 1973 and there were some TH-1L's and I think some HH-1K's there. Try looking up HT5. It has been so long ago I am not sure of the unit number. HT-8 was the TH-57 primary helo trainer unit.

Many of the pictures never downloaded on this thread so I can't see what you are talking about completely.

Mel, I only have Army TM's not Navy or Marine going back that far. Try doing a search using NA01-H1, thats NA zero one,dash H one. and see what you come up with. Those old manuals are not in the current Navy manual inventory. Maybe somebody has put then on pdf format.

Ed

Mel,

  Glad you like the pic.  As I said the Navy HAL-3 ships used the Army M-156 mounts.

I 'm not sure if you can tell this HAL-3 bird has the M-156 mount, but you can clearly see the standard Army arrangement of guns outboard and rockets inboard.  Note by the way that this is a B model with a C model tail repacement.

   Ray
 

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Ray,

Thanks for the excellent picture of the TK-2 mount.  I had never noticed the M-60's mounted inboard on them before.  Would be a great scratch build for the Marine and Navy birds.  I'm fairly certain all the "models" except the D and H had the same electrical and hydaulic attachment points.  I'll ask Ed in an E-mail since he hasn't commented on this thread yet.  He has access to all the manuals I believe.

Mel,

  As far as I know only Marine birds had the TK-2 (Temporary Kit 2) mounting system, but it was very different from the M-156 mount (see below).  The connections may very well have been the same.  I'll take your word for it since you actually flew on the aircraft.  HAL-3 used Army Hueys (B's and C's for gunships) and also used the standard M-156 mouning system.  The exception being the three HH-1K's mentioned above.  My sources indicate that the TK-2 system allowed the Marines to use Air Force rocket pods.  At any rate, the only way I know to tell Echos from Bravos or Charlies externally is the rescue hoist housing on the starboard roof and none of our pics show the roof of the bird in question.  It's all semantics, anyway, since the model isn't relevent to the purpose of your pics (nice closeups, by the way).  I just thought you might like to know about the aircraft.

     Ray
 

Here's the TK-2 mounting system:

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Ray,

The type of mounting system may have been different with the Marine and Navy birds but the connection points for the armament systems would have been the same.  That's the reason I posted the pictures.  I haven't found any good pictures of these in any books so far.  Especially since the right and left electical connection points were not in the same location for the rocket pods. 

  Mel,

   That may be a Echo Model in your pics, but, as far as I know, the Marines used the TK-2 mounting system.  Here is a photo from Aviation Enthusiast Corner which shows what I believe is the same bird.  The site claims it is a HH-1K serial number 157188, but there are other mistakes there so this may be one as well.  However, the seriel number jives with another ref I have listing serial numbers for the individual variants.  I also see NAVY on the tail boom and what looks to be a Seawolves emblem on the nose.  This bird looks more ready for SEARCH and DESTROY than SEARCH and RESCUE, though!  Also, my resources indicate that 3 HH-1K's were sent to Vietnam to serve with the Seawolves.  If it is HH-1K then it is basically just a modified Echo as per your info.

      Ray
 

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Well since we are digressing from the topic, here sre some more shots of UH-1C 65-09430 from Pima Air and Space Museum.

Here's the M-156 universal mount from the side

and from a 3\4 rear view

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Here is the skid step on the left side

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Here are some shots of the tail

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How about a closeup of the filler cap on the left side

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John,

Good shot of the basic mount for the rocket pods and mini-guns.  Here are a few of the "belly" I shot of "presumably" a UH-1E hanging from the ceiling at the Pensacola Naval Air Musuem. 

Right rocket pod electrical connection.

Right mini-gun electrical and two hydralic line connections.

Left rocket pod electrical connection.

Left mini-gun electrical and two hydraulic line connetions

Thought I'd throw in a photo of one one the gun mounts for those interested

Those are great pics. Here are the ones I took of 65-09430's rotor in 2005.  I have basically a complete walk around of this ship and the D/H model beside it if anyone is interested.  Enjoy and I hope they are useful to someone.

   Ray
 

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Melgyver wrote:

John, I believe that is a picture of 65-09430 at the PIMA Musuem.  Did you know that was one of the 174th's original Shark gunships?  You can find it listed in our Unit "Tail Number List" on the Web page.  Also shown here.   www.174ahc.org/174display.htm.

Here it is again Mel, you got it from me when I posted it after my trip there.

Andy,

No sweat buddy!  Great job you did on your UH-1C!  Benchmark for all the rest of us.  I see you are at it again with the Chinook!  Unbelievable work! 

  Mel, great idea posting the correction guide!

I also would like to add couple of pics from my expirience with Academy kit. All corrections I made according to info I received from Mel about 6-7 months ago.

Thank you, Mel

 Andy

John,

I believe that is a picture of 65-09430 at the PIMA Musuem.  Did you know that was one of the 174th's original Shark gunships?  You can find it listed in our Unit "Tail Number List" on the Web page.  Also shown here.   www.174ahc.org/174display.htm.

Added this photo I have to help