Nighthawk & Firefly, Vietnam.

richgb wrote:

Kris, I'm using the seats from a C as well, although not bothering to change the armour plating.Info on the seats can be found in one of the Huey threads pinned at the top of the page. Take a day off work and read through them. As for guns, obviously you get minis from the D, the H-34 has a great pistol grip M-60 with the butt removed, the Italeri/Revell uh-60 desert hawk has 2 great M-60D's with spade grips, hh-53 also has miniguns as well. Aeroclub from the UK has great .50 in 1/72. It's ahame Italeri doesn't produce a box of weapons in 1/72 as they supply some excellent ones in the kits, but you can always use more can't you.   Rich

I'm not changing the armor on the seats. I'm leaving the seats with their armor, but adding the sliding plates that are attached to the soundproofing panels behind the seats. I figure, if I get enough cluter in the cabin, I can hide the inaccuracies. I got some weapons set aside, but I'll wait until I get the aircraft issues sorted out. I got enough Evergreen round stock and strips to make mounts for the lights and weapons.

Kris?

Are you building this "D" in 1/72 or 1/48? If it is in 1/48, let me check. I have promised some weapons to another but, I may have enough to go around. Minis, M-60Ds and M2s. It may take a couple of days as I am inventorying kits for the other member for a possible sale/trade.

Have patience. 

Kris,

I'm using the seats from a C as well, although not bothering to change the armour plating.Info on the seats can be found in one of the Huey threads pinned at the top of the page. Take a day off work and read through them. As for guns, obviously you get minis from the D, the H-34 has a great pistol grip M-60 with the butt removed, the Italeri/Revell uh-60 desert hawk has 2 great M-60D's with spade grips, hh-53 also has miniguns as well. Aeroclub from the UK has great .50 in 1/72. It's ahame Italeri doesn't produce a box of weapons in 1/72 as they supply some excellent ones in the kits, but you can always use more can't you.

Rich

UPDATE:

cabin floor problem- trying out .015" evergreen strips to raise the floor. to be followed by slight sanding down on the door openings, filling in floor gaps. Need to figure out the cockpit floor without showing the addition through the chin bubbles.

Pilot seats- remaking the seat frames with thinner rods and swapping the kit seats with UH-1C seats and scratch build sliding armor plates.

Any thoughts?

Here are the shots for my dilema with the cabin floor. the cabin i used for the pictures are from another ESCI model that didn't make it through a move from Miami to Tampa and back. I'll make the next one with customized parts.

red is where I already removed plastic. light blue is what i would need to shave off.

the yellow is where that "plate" was molded to go along the door opening.

this is just the 1/4 door cut off.

the following are shots from above. dont know if you can tell the difference between parts with these.

Rich,

 i cant remember how to quote, but in answer to your question.. 

"are moustaches standard issue for Cav pilots? Nearly every pic I've seen of a Cav pilot he has a tash!!"

Without doubt the Moustache was essential uniform for the Cav guys, the more "Errol Flynn" the better! Especially amoungst the 1/9th recon guys. Talking of good ol Errol Flynn, a little bit of Vietnam trivia...

Errol Flynn's son, Sean Flynn, was a photojournalist in Vietnam. On the 6th April 1970 while freelancing for Time Magazine, he disappeared with CBS reporter Dana Stone. They were covering the fighting in Cambodia and it is presumed that they were executed by their captors. Sean Flynn was 28 years old. No place in a modeling forum but interesting non the less!

Andy   

Ray,

Erm...let me think.. you know me mate, i live for them, now stop teasing and post

Andy,

  if I hadn't been up to my eyeballs in teaching, i woulda done it sooner!

    Ray

PS:  you ready for my info on US plans for UH-1D gunships?
 

Ray,

See if you had just posted that picture earlier, i wouldnt of had to write those "thousand words"

Andy

P.S i thought that Blanket detail might come in handy for any members of the Velcro generation like me, living outside the US and without access to the Rucker Hueys  

Andy,

  Good stuff, but I think that in this case a picture is worth a thousand words at elast as far as how the blankets snapped in place:

[img]http://[

This is the ever posted NUH-1B from Ft. Rucker.  I think it is pretty self explanatory!

   Ray
 

Rich

The breeze created by the open doors would play havoc with the blankets and any blanket that had faulty or worn snap fasters would flap about, make noise and could cause damage to the transmission island panels and structural bulkhead and would damage the blanket, the skin was only .008 inches thick!

The major reason behind missing or lost soundproof blankets was that although they were coded as "Unit-repairable" in the parts manual, neither the (TM 55-1520-210-20) or the general aircraft maintenance manual (TM-55-1500-204-25/1) informed the guys on how to go about repairing them. So if they came loose it was easier to just remove them.

(Boring bit for us detail lovers )..

Replacing a soundproof blanket (NSN -5640-00-269-1048) was costly, a large blanket was over $100. Buying in bulk, a square yard would cost $5.90.

Incase you have ever wondered, this is how the blankets were attached inside the huey.     The transmission and bulkhead was covered in screws known to the maintenance guys as "Studs". On the outside of the blanket was a snap fastener cap, which would be attached to a snap fastener socket on the inside of the blanket. The snap fastener socket on the inside of the blanket would then clip onto the "Studs" on the transmission and bulkhead to hold the blankets in place.

Weight was an issue, raised density altitude caused by the heat, was a big problem in Vietnam and not just for the fully laiden gunships that had to bounce down flightlines to get into the air. Many a slick was lost in an LZ desperatly trying to maintain a hover.

Which brings me back to the Nighthawks. The Nighthawk was the most heavily armed slick in any unit in Vietnam and although (due to its name) it was perceived by most,as nothing more than a nightime perimeter guard or a spotter for gunships (The Fireflys job) It had a far spicier role in Vietnam. Its size and armament didnt go unnoticed by special forces and due to the fact that it could carry a few troops and had a fare amount of fire power, The Nighthawk was used to insert Ranger/SOG/Seal units into places that a slick and gunship escort would bring to much attention. Dak To was a favorite forward base for SOG recon missions, They would use a single Nighthawk to drop them over the border into Laos to gather intel on the Ho Chi Minh Trail. The Nighthawk had the firepower to help out if things went pear shaped and would often be sent back to pick the guys up at the end of the mission.

With the armament and amount of ammo that needed to be carried on a Nighthawk and with the prospect of carrying a team of guys behind enemy lines without a wingman or escort, it makes sense that any Nighthawk CE would choose to reduce as much weight as possible. If the doors are open, they may aswell be off! With the doors off, who needs the added agro of flapping soundproof padding! Plus it may just save on a little weight!

(Phew)!! i hope that helps explain things a little.

Andy

Kris,

  The Oh-13 kit I have is Italeri No. 085. It definitely has M60A's with forearms, but there are also two small mounting pegs on the bottom of the gun that make it look strange.  take those two little pegs off and you got yourself a pretty gun doorgun for your Huey, but you'll have to add the carrying handle that the bungee cord is attached to.

   I haven't built a UH-1D yet, so i'm not qualified to comment on the fit problem with your floor.  Shaving down the edges sounds good to me, though.

    Ray
 

Yes, everyone would be pissed. Specially since that was one of the first parts in the crew/ passenger briefs the pilots made us give. Never understood this, No smoking within 50 feet of the aircraft, but the aircraft is administratively Red X'ed if the ash trays were not installed in the pilot doors. Go figure!

I have a bunch of OH-13 kits but the weapons just didn't look right when I was laying out what I could use. As for the Eduard kit, I'll see if I can find one and then if anyone wants to share the rest that I don't need.

You got any ideas as far as my D cabin floor dilema? I guess since all the doors are going to be off it wouldn't matter if I shave down the openings.

Kris,

  i never served in the military, so I'm not the final word on this, but my experience from talking to Vietnam vets and reading about combat missions is that lot's of things become "optional" in a combat zone.  Dad said some barrels came with bipods and others didn't.  To show you what I mean,  here's a pic of dad with his M60:

 [img]http://[

Not only does his 60 not have a bipod, he's holding the crew cheif's cigarette!  I bet your XO would of fragged you for that!

 Here's another M60A on a Sagami mount and you can see that it has a bipod.   However, short of the bird going down and the gunner needing to fire on the ground it's not necessary.  Check the Vietnam Huey thread (Page 9) for an in depth discussion of M60's in Hueys.

As for the Eduard set, it is EXV 72016 (West Block Modern Fire Arms).  The set comes with 1 M60A, 2 M-16's, 2 Uzi's, 2 German MG-3's 2 German G-3's, and 2 FN-FAL's.  I'm not sure who would need this assortment of weapons, but that's what is there.  The kit also includes bipods for the MG-3 and M60.  I bought 2 sets because I knew I would need two guns, but i can't rememeber where I got them or how much they cost.  Hopefully that will help, though.  By the way, you can get two M60A's in the 1/72 Italeri OH-13S kit as well as a pair of 30 cal Brownings.  There are also two M60D's in the 1/72 italeri Desert Hawk kit, but they are not entirely accurate since they have moulded forearms and M60D's lacked forearms.

   Ray
 

So what you're saying is, bipods were optional!?! Man, we used to get hounded by our XO because 1 or 2 of our M60Ds had a problem, usually a bent or messed up bipod.

How many weapons come in that Eduard set? is it recent or do I have to hunt it down?

Kris,

  You don't need a bipod on your M60 for the doorgun.  Especially if you are using the M60D with the spade grips.  If you want an M60A with the standard pistol grips, get the Eduard 1/72 set (don't have the number handy right now) to get bipods, but you will have to get two since each set only has a single M60.  Basically, the bipod was either left on or removed depending on the time the amament guys had with the gun. My father always removed the bipods from his guns, but he said it wasn't uncommon at all to leave them on the barrels if the guns were needed in a hurry.

    Ray

OOOps. I tried to add some writing in but there was no room left. What I meant to point out was that this ship has all the soundproofing ripped out, even on the ceiling. What was the purpose of this, to save on weight maybe? or had it just fallen out?? It looks like just the bare essentials.

Just going back to the pic of the Cav ship above, were those moustaches standard issue for Cav pilots? Nearly every pic I've seen of a Cav pilot he has a tash!!

Rich

I'll see if tonight i can sit down and mark what I'd need to shave off and post it to you guys. Then you can let me know what you think. I was planning on doing one with ALL the doors off like most of the ones I've seen. I'll need to make the armor plates for the pilot seats for starters. Any ideas on what to use and the shape? did they slide forward like the ones on the UH-60? I need more info on what else I put in to detail the cockpit. I know I should put in fire extinguishers, but WHERE? I've seen a picture of one attached to the floor to the right of the pilot seat. an extinguisher should be easy to replicate. round stock and shaped aluminum foil. I have many sizes of copper wire than can be used for cables and stuff through out the cockpit.

I like that one in the picture you put up last (richgb) with the cabin walls stripped from sound proffing. that would just take sanding down the walls to get rid of the criss cross patterns and scribing a few lines in. is that bare metal or is it gray as well? and I would get to put on the toilet bowl I made. question is, markings, can I get them?

Maybe you could sand it down slightly, although in  this scale its not that obvious unless your looking out for it. Now you've noticed it though, it'll be really prominant to your eyes and stand out a mile, but to everyone else, I doubt they'd pick up on it.

Rich

Great stuff Guys!

  Andy,

  Here's a couple of pics of the top portion of the blackout curtain you wereasking about. This is an NUH-1B.  You can see the top f the curtain through the windshield:

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H ere's another pic of the overhead panel where you can see the curtain in teh upper part of the photo:

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I know I have a better one in my photo set, but I'll have to post it later.  

    Ray
 

Jon,

Thanks for ID on D/17 Nighthawk. Could You possibly check if 57th AHC flew an UH-1H with last three serial number digits ''061'' (should be in 1972/73 period). Thanks :)

Marko 

Andy,

Great images and research on the ''Super Slick''. Your eyes aren't playing tricks on You-that is a blackout curtain on the Super Slick. In fact all Hueys could be fitted with this curtain UH-1D/H/B/C/M. It was a two piece rig: a short black curtain with zipper at the bottom was attached to the roof between door posts and the backout curtain itself was then ''zipped'' to it. I guess 336th used this curtain to reduce the negative effect of the searchlight on pilots night vision.

And here are a couple of pics of another UH-1H Nighthawk with Anti-Strela modifications. D troop 17th Cavalry at Danang in late 1972; unfortunately I can only make out part of the serial number-it appears to be 68-1557X or 68-1551X:

Note the unusual minigun ammo box and black AirCav crossed sabres insignia aft of the cabin door: 

Nose art on one of D/17 Nighthawks (not the one in the pics above-if You look closely at the first D/17 Nighthawk image You will see that it sported different nose art) 

I posted these two images in the unusual vietnam hueys thread, but they certainly belong here; they were taken from 191st AHC 1969/70 yearbook and show a UH-1H Nighthawk in service with the 191st AHC at the time. This was certainly one of the most heavily armed Nighthawks I've seen, I just wish I could find some more detailed images of this monster of a Huey. It sported a XM213 .50 cal MG and mk19 mod 0 40mm automatic grenade launcher on the right side and probably minigun (You can clearly see the ammo chute in the picture) and searchlight/starlight scope on the left:

Marko 

leadfooterm535i

I sure would like to see the picture of the "sunken" floor on a D model Huey.  I can't see how that would be possible.  Maybe it's just a picture with some of the floor panels removed for maintenance. 

leadfooterm535i wrote:

I'm actually surpised it worked. I found a pieace of plastic at work and drilled it out and the started heating, bending and stretching it to to some measurements I figured out from some pictures. When I got home it almost fit so I messed with it some more and finally got right. I tried before cutting shapes on foil and rolling it but only got close and ugly. I want to figure how I can make molds for it and remake a few. I have a few aircraft in 1/72 that need it, especially that AH-1G "#1 Du Me Mi". If I can get making some, I'll be glad to help you. I'll be going to the art supply store this weekend to see about some modeling clay.

Thanks, I'll be watching this space closely.

Rich

Here are some more unit Nighthawks...

229th AHB

(C/CO 229th Huey Decals Available from From Fireball Modelworks in most scales)

http://webpages.charter.net/osborn82/

UH-1H (67-19525) was a Nighthawk with C/229th from January 1969 until 13 September 1969, when it was apparently shot down during a "Sniffer" mission West of LZ Jamie. 

UH-1H (68-16082) The "Judge" was a Nighthawk/Dayhawk with C/229 based at Tay Ninh from September 1969 until June 1972. Not only was this bird used as a Nighthawk, she also adopted the role of a Gunship to help suppress fire for slick units on daytime combat assaults. More info on #082 "Judge" here..

http://www.229thavbn.com/Photos/index.html

Photo of the "Judge" by C/229 Doorgunner "Roy Bridges"..

"Judge" Minigun..

334th AHC

UH-1D (65-09945) 50 Cal armed slick from 334th "Gangbusters" 1967-68

335th AHC

UH-1H "Seasons Greetings" from the 335th "Cowboys" 1970 (note the black minigun mount)

336th AHC

UH-1H "Warrior 21" AKA "Super Slick" 336th AHC "Warriors" 1969-1970.This Nighthawk experimented with a few armament configurations in her day, she had the 50 Cal setup first then the minigun, light and scope and also tried out both the single and twin M60s on the other side. We just need someone to come up with the nose art decals for her (HINT HINT!)

(Ive used some of this birds pics already, so i will post here to keep things in unit order)

The mount for the twin M60s used on this bird are unlike any other twin 60 mounts i have seen! they even have their own spot lights!

The 50 Cal setup..

The minigun, Xenon search light and starlight scope..

It could be my eyes playing tricks, but that looks like some kind of blackout curtain between the pilot and crew section!!

Lastly, "Warrior 21" Preparing for a seal mission ..(gota love this Nighthawk)

Stay tuned.. More to come.

Andy