Green Hornet Hueys

Grandad,

  It is in SEA camouflage (as evidenced by the light color under the door) so almost certainly isn't Army or Navy.  The nose is round so it isn't a UH-1N.  The Marines never mounted a blade antenna so it can't be an early Echo (which were green all over in any case).  Regarding Hueys, the Air Force only flew the UH-1F/P and UH-1N in Vietnam to my knowledge.  Therefore, I say it is almost certainly an F/P.  I suppose I could be wrong though.  Wouldn't be the first time!

     Ray

DiscoStu wrote:

I have noticed one glaring thing with the miniguns, the kit offers no solution to the spent casings.  I can't imagine that they'd let the cabin fill up with rolling brass.  I'm assuming there was some form of tube, bag, something that either collected the casings or dumped them over the side?

 I believe the XM-93 system was used in the N as well as the UH-1P in Vietnam.  here's a photo of the system on a VNAF UH-1H.  You can see the flex chute extending below the gun to direct spent brass below the helicopter.

   Ray

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You're welcome. Remember that that isn't a USAF bird though, but the interior should be pretty close.  The Green Hornets book will help a lot!  Many good mini gun pics.  Please post pics of your build so we can follow your progress.

     Ray

Here's another pic of the XM-93 system. This pic shows two chutes-one for brass and one for links

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Ray, I could be wrong to, I just don't think the photo shows enough detail to make an accurate ID has to which model it is.

Brass and links from the mini-guns where usually dumped overboard, either directly or though a chute

Okay all, the parts spent a good night soaking in a soap solution and thoroughly scrubbed.  It was then I noticed I'm out of primer.  So I'll take a jaunt to the hobby shop tomorrow and should be good to go with starting the kit.

 Still trying to think of a (easy) way to simulate the links/brass tubes. Nothing in that scale with that accordian texture comes to mind (Was thinking the bend-y parts of crazy straws but that's just not quite right...).  Any ideas?

The easiest is to take a solid piece of wire, rod, or tubing and wrap/glue a smaller piece of wire around, coiling up and around, to simulate the ribs.  Drill out the bottom end and you are good. 

I used ribbed tubing off of an old 1/9 Star Wars Speeder Bike for the discharge chutes on my 1/35 MH-60L DAP and HH-60G SAR helos. 

Good luck.

grandadjohn wrote:

Ray, I could be wrong to, I just don't think the photo shows enough detail to make an accurate ID has to which model it is.

It is either a D, H or N model, judging by the long cabin. 

Jon

Cobrahistorian wrote:

grandadjohn wrote: Ray, I could be wrong to, I just don't think the photo shows enough detail to make an accurate ID has to which model it is.   It is either a D, H or N model, judging by the long cabin.    Jon

Jon, they are talking about this pic.

What do you think it is?  I vote USAF F or P based on the paint scheme and regular nose myself.

oops... ok, I'm a dumb@$$, sorry Granddad!

Looking at the paint scheme, my bet would be an F or P, since its a "round nose" Huey. 

This is just my 2 cents as I'm no Air Force Huey expert.  I assume you want to build an armed bird, correct?  Page 42 has photos of two different setups. the top bird is a slick for inserting troops and has an M60D doorgun on an M23 mount it looks like.  The bottom photo shows a UH-1N gunship with 7 shot rocket pods and, I believe, M134 miniguns on the XM93 system in the cabin.  Which are you building?  As for the interior, this was pre-NVG so the inside should be grey like every other Huey of the time period as far as I know.  The seats would be the same as typical armored Huey seats found on Army birds.  The major difference up front would be the instruments which are much busier on a twin engine bird than on a single engine one like the UH-1H.  If you are building the slick, seating arrangement in the Uh-1N is basically identical to a H model.  Which is to say that seats can be arranged MANY different ways depending on the mission. My GUESS, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong, is that the gunship only had the 2 seats in back gunners position for the gunner and crew chief with teh guns mounted as they are on the VNAF bird I posted earlier. What I don't know is how they were arranged.  Without some real evidence, you are just gonna have to guess based on the UH-1P pics I think.  My guess is that there aren't many good pics of the interior or Mutza would have found them.  Lacking all other resources, I would use the VNAF bird I posted above as a guide for the interior as the cabin is essentially the same.  Good luck!  if I find anything better, I'll post em for you.

      Ray
 

PS: Not sure if it will help much, but here is a walkaround I did a while back of a current N model fresh from the Gulf. At least you can get a peek inside an N model.

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I agree w/Ray above.  The interior was pretty much the same on all hueys at that time, still today too.  Medium gray metal pieces, and a slightly darker grey for the fabric sound proofing on the walls and ceiling.  Probably just gunner's seats, but the rear-facing troop seat could be installed too.  Fabric on the seats was a medium green by then.  The layout in the instructions should be accurate.  Grey instrument panel with black instruments.   The prepainted PE istrument panel looks good, but is an H panel, not an N panel.  The N panel has almost twice the guages since it has two engines to monitor. 

Here are a couple walk arounds of Current USMC Ns to get a feel for the interiors.  The cockpits are blacked out to use NVGs with, but th erest is pretty much the same.

USMC UH-1N 1, armed USMC UH-1N 2, unarmed

Good luck and show us some pics when you get started on it.

Excellent.  I appreciate the info.  I've accepted that there will be some innaccuracies (like the IP), but I really want to put the effort into making it as close to the real thing as possible.  The Walkarounds helped a ton and I should be able to get going.  Plus this build has gotten out into the family circles and it looks like everyone on her side of the family is eagerly waiting to see.  Her entire Mother's side of the family is either active or ex-Air Force.  So no pressure, right?  Can't tell you all enough how much I appreciate your help. 

 -My Marine Grandfather would skin me alive if he were around to see me working so hard for "Wing-Wipers."

If anyone has lost faith in the kindness of strangers check this out. Another regular/kind soul at my Hobby Shop overheard me talking to my "dealer" behind the counter as I was picking up various bits for scratch building, has a Cobra Company X-93 set that he is not planning on using and is sending it to me.  He refused payment.  What a guy!  On the plus side, he said it comes with the casings chute, on the negative I was actually looking forward to scratch building. I think in looking at the pictures online I'll need to build the gun barrels, which may actually work out since the Dragon kit's has a can on the end which I can only assume is a flash suppressor, whereas all my reference photos show nothing on the muzzles. 

 Photos on the way... Promise! 

You are correct about the minigun barrels.  the newer Dillon Aero M134 has a different flash supressor than that used in Vietnam.  However, most units never used flash supressors on their minis in the first place.  One exception was HA(L)-3 where almost all the miniguns I have seen have flash supressors.  Here are a few examples:

HA(L)-3 Detachment 2  This is not the XM-93 system and was fabricated in country.  

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 20th SOS minigun.  This is the XM-93 system. Note no flash supressors.  The Huey Gunship and Huey Frog MRC/Academy boxings have this type of minigun in them, but the Heavy Hog boxing does not.

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Finally, a good old US Army gunship sporting the M21 system.  You can see that the minigun also lacks the flash supressor and is identical to the 20th SOS minis. This is my dad's photo of the system from above.

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I hope that helps.

    Ray
 

Well, I promised photos and here's one.  Don't get too attached to it.  Only after deciding to brazenly go ahead with the build while I waited for Squadron's Walkaround, did I prime, pre-shade, paint, seal and wash did I finally get the book and find out I used the wrong Gray.  Let this be a lesson to anyone painting based off of Dragon's instructions.  Light gull gray is NOT the correct color, rather dark gull gray (Which I should have known based on pictures. *sigh*).  So I'll re-paint and re submit photos.

Ah. Of course the sides of the consoles are gray .  Well I repainted, re-washed, and dry brushed a bulk of the cabin's main pieces. But I followed the instructions and left the console black.  I'm starting to think I should just toss the instructions. Well since I've already put in the seat frames it looks like I'm stuck with it. Argh.  Good thing I'm keeping the doors closed.

 A couple of build notes so far.  I think if I were to do this again I would look for either a resin instrument panel and consoles or cannibalize them from the Academy kit.  Several posts ago, I voiced my disdain for PE parts like instrument panels as I felt it's a cop-out.  Well going against my own advice I chose to use the kit's PE parts and while I knew the grays were off a shade or two, it was only after I attached the instrument panel, top and bottom consoles that the differences really stand out.  Not happy with the results there.  Again, glad this will be done with the doors closed.  I'll rely on the back of the cabin, the little "danglees" I'll put into the ceiling and the minis to draw the eye away.

Tonight begins the scratch-built additions.

Yup, its hard to match the PE color, Dark Gull Gray is close though.  The best instrument panel is in teh Cobra Company N set, the only true N panel.  The old Revell 1/32 H model or the Academy C model panels work well too.  You can also take the inner B piller parts from the Academy Cs too, plus lots of other better interior parts.

Good luck and keep us posted.

You know I could be wrong about this, but isn't the IP on the Italeri 1/48 and Panda 1/35 UH-1D/H actually a N panel?  It sure looks like there are two sets of guages for both engines and it doesn't look like the proper IP for a real D/H.  I have never seen the UH-1N kit, but I figure the IP is the same.  Is that right Gino?  By the way, I'm not talking about the PE, but the original plastic part.

    Ray
 

Gino,

  I went back and looked at both the 1/48th Italeri and the 1/35 Dragon/Panda kit which was scaled up from it and you're right about the 1/35 kit.  Here's what the IP looks like in the 1/48 Italeri D/H and, I assume, the 1/48 N model:

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That definitely looks like a N panel to me and the shape is the same as the 1/35 kit. A shame they didn't carry the detail over to the 1/35 version.

     Ray
 

Gino,

  Your probably right, but if you had the raised instruments and some good instrument decals, it might look OK.  I still like the PE stuff myself, but I guess I'm lazy.  Of course if the PE isn't accurate that is frustrating.

      Ray

Well all, tonight's update reflects a bit of the work I've done on the cabin.  Now that I have the correct gray down I went to work busy-ing up the bare cabin.  I added some ribbing and coiled wire based on some of the pictures I have.  Not shown yet is the floor as I'm still working on some additional details.  The picture included really exemplifies what I was referring to about the Grays being dramatically different.