Outside Gate A10 SF International Airport

Indeed you are correct Sprue. In particular I like "The Airport" as that's where Dad returned from every day for 48 years. Where abts do you live? PM if you like. I live in Tiburon.

But I think Vespa is a resident of... Belgium? and to him the International Terminal would be SFIA. Can't get used to it.

Thehannaman2 wrote:

Did you use acrylics for hte fuel stains as well?

Thanks hannaman. I did use acrylics for the fuel stains as well. I mixed up a tub of dilute wash and let it sit for a few days. When I was applying the washes I could get a stronger colour by dipping the brush lower in the water, and at the top the colour was very weak. I also added browns oranges and reds to the drips to look like different kinds of fluid leaks. Its there on the model, but doesn't come out too well in the photo

scorpr2 wrote:

Anyway, Vespa the main thing I want to know is: HOW DID YOU DO THAT???!!!!!  I want to make some tarmac sections to park my B1RD's on

Scorpr2: Here is how its done

I cast a block of plaster of paris on the base

smooth the surface with a straightedge (I use a microscope slide as a scraper)

Score expansion joints with a No 11 blade

Texture the surface with a wire brush

Use lots washes of of dilute acrylic paint to colour the surface (I use Golden artists acrylics)

Mask out the lines and paint them with acrylics. Use masking tape to lift some of the paint. Build up paint layers to simulate overpainted lines

Apply more washes to blend it all together. The great thing about artists acrylics is that they dont lift when you apply more acrylic over them, once they are touch dry.

Insert caulking in the expansion joints...I sometimes use black cardboard, and sometimes use acrylic paint from a hyperdermic syringe

Hope that helps

smeagol the vile wrote:

The reason I am so adimant about this is I have been on a few forums where people hijack posts with semi related or unrelated topics and completly IGNORE the base of the post, weither it be someone's finished work, a work in progress, or even a question.  I have been on the recieving end of those hijacks before too, and its quite tedious to go onto 'my forums'  (or the equivelant) and see the thread I started with new posts, open it, and find more argument and no answers or criticism

Think about a bunch of guys sitting around talking shop. The conversation starts about a type of truck; opinions are thrown about, and then a point about the type of stereo in the car leads to a tangent about best speaker boxes or what not. The to the town ordinance that prohibits too-loud music, so a warning about not using too much power in certain neighborhods is given, and then somebody else brings up a car that has a great stereo--and then someone says that that car has great MPG< and the conversation is onto cars again,--or off onto gas prices.

It's human nature. The conversation will come back around to the topic--just don't get yourself bent out of shape!

That is exactly what we should see, constructive criticism.  Its when threads get taken over with discussions (I have seen twice) of 'this does not belong here' because ultimatly, we have moderators on this forum, who, if need be, can move the thread themselves.  If it stays where it is, the moderators believe this is where it should stay.

The reason I am so adimant about this is I have been on a few forums where people hijack posts with semi related or unrelated topics and completly IGNORE the base of the post, weither it be someone's finished work, a work in progress, or even a question.  I have been on the recieving end of those hijacks before too, and its quite tedious to go onto 'my forums'  (or the equivelant) and see the thread I started with new posts, open it, and find more argument and no answers or criticism

I see this as a healthy discussion, and I don't see the thread as being hijacked at all. I haven't lost any sleep over it. I am not used to inciting so much comment for dios that are pretty low key! I think its important to discuss conventions. Shep Paine wrote one definition almost 30 years ago that and it is good to talk about if it can be expanded, and if not, why not.

When I post I like to hear constructive criticism. I don't want to hear value judgement (this is good, this is bad etc), rather comments on what works and suggestions on how to improve areas that are lacking. And, when you build something you can be very close to it so you don't necessarily see a flaw that is obvious to others, so forums like this are a very real way to become a better modeller.

Wirraway wrote:

Al LaFleche made a recent observation that this forum is turning into a "Sunshine Factory" where praise is the only form of feedback that is acceptable, and anything else gets attacked.  From what I've seen here, I agree with him.  Vespa wont lose any sleep over some criticism, nor should he.

As a guitar teacher, I'm faced with this conundrum every day--how to criticize while at the same time realizing that I am dealing with a hobby which is much like modeling. A solitary pursuit driven and fed by ego, for the most part. It's a fine line to walk, that of making sincere criticism without squashing someone's ego to the point of where you lose them as a student, or worse, you completely quash their commitment to, and love of, playing(modeling?)

We have a particularly grumpy old teacher here in my town; a real jerk who gets frustrated with his inability to effectively communicate his instruction to his students, and he actually calls them "stupid" and tells them that they have no talent when they can't grasp something! (I hear it from the students which I regularly steal from him all the time!) Recently, I got a new student who was in his 30's. He said he quit 10 years ago when xxxxxxx told him that he "just doesn't have any talent" but that now he wants to learn again. I wanted to march down to xxxx's studio and punch nim in the nose!

I hope that the "Sunshine Factory" comment (whith which by the way, I completely disagree--I think we are really quite honest, IMO.) does not lead some critics on this site to nisguidedly throw discretion to the winds and wind up driving away "New Blood" with unnecessarily harsh critique in the name of "honest criticism". I hope that the fact of  one putiing one's work on a site such as this where one accepts the possibility of criticism hopefully will not be viewed as a license to just completely destroy any sense of accomplishment on the part of the builder.

...then the origional piece gets burried in all this crud.  If a discussion like this starts, you should move it toa topic in odds and ends, or somewhere of that nature, so you can argue over the little things forever, and let people see the person's work.

I would contend that just the opposite happens.  If you get only the standard, "Wow, thats the best...," answer,  only a few pople look at it and the post quickly moves down and off the first page.  By debating and discussing it, the topic stays at the top of the page and gets more exposure, thus more people see the post and his pieces. 

My loosely-cloaked comments to Wirraway and Gino were a major instigator for some of the ugly that went down here. Ultimately, I attempted to make peace with both through Private Messages, and I would like to publicly apologize to them, as well, for speaking out of line.

I also want to apologize to Vespa for being responsible in hijacking his thread.

Debate and discussion is great, compliments and critique are encouraged. However, I had no right to take it to apersonal level, and I am truly sorry.

That said... on with the praise and parley for Vespa's thought-provoking work. Dio or no dio, to be provacative is a enviable trait as an artist.

Steve

smeagol the vile wrote:

I know, but then the origional piece gets burried in all this crud.  If a discussion like this starts, you should move it toa topic in odds and ends, or somewhere of that nature, so you can argue over the little things forever, and let people see the person's work

Whats wrong with some intelligent discussion.  We're all adults here.  If you read back through this thread, there are just as many people smacking Gino and I for voicing an opinion, as there are people praising Vespa Boys work !  This idea that "your opinion differs from mine, so yours must be BS"  is a bit juvenile IMO.  Smeagol, your thoughts are worth as much as mine, mine are worth as much as Vespa's. Thats the great thing about the forum.  Anyone who thinks their opinion is gospel, deserves to be smacked.  Al LaFleche made a recent observation that this forum is turning into a "Sunshine Factory" where praise is the only form of feedback that is acceptable, and anything else gets attacked.  From what I've seen here, I agree with him.  Vespa wont lose any sleep over some criticism, nor should he.

I don't know what all the hub-bub is about!  It seems to me Vespa's work is great!!!  So would everybody be happier if he parked something on it?  Who's to say there's not F.O.D. on the tarmac awaiting a F.O.D. walkdown?  How many of us airdales haven't been on one?

Anyway, Vespa the main thing I want to know is: HOW DID YOU DO THAT???!!!!!  I want to make some tarmac sections to park my B1RD's on and your's look terrific!!!  Keep up the great work!

I'm going to throw my own two cents into the ring here.  I have a very, very, VERY good idea.  Heres the idea.  When someone posts a WIP or a Finished work, instead of saying 'ZOMG THIS DOESNT BELONG HERE!!' or 'OMFG THIS ISNT A DIO,' like I have seen, twice so far in my SHORT time here, how about we do this instead.  We take a good look at the work, give some constructive criticism on how it could be improved, if it can.  We say what we like, and what we dislike, and we say why.  Doing this makes this a happy place, where people dont argue and get people's amazing work, like this, burried.

How would you like it, if someone brand new joined this forum, someone destined to be the best darned modeler we have ever seen in our lifetime, a picaso, or mozart of modeling, and they saw this thread, with the arguing over semantics and said 'this isnt for me' and left the forum and got turned off from the hobby?

So, why dont we just do this "Hey vespa, that is an absolutley amazing piece, I'm envious, keep up the good work"  and let that be it?

Vespa's works remaind me of some works by photographers who take a particlar mundane image and photographs it in black and white to show how light plays upon the subject. In Vespa's works the same play of light can now be seen in a 3-D image. Consider Duchamp and his view on art and art marketing. Views in art changes with time and the critic. Duchamp thought that his art didn't have meaning while the critics saw all sorts of things in it. He was greatly frustrated by their views.

Dioramas are the closest category to fit with what Vespa does and I enjoy his works. I applaud him. 

Mike T.

Come on guys!

We are "ALL" Artists here and perhaps we should respect others for their opinion of what art is!

Just because one persons ideas doesn't fit the mold does it mean that they are lesser than you?

I think not.

The same goes for those who are spoken in their opinion!

Why bash them for their honesty?

Do I get PO'ed at the guy that who thinks my diorama is junk?

Sure I do, yes I take it personal.

But it's their right to state his opinion and ideas.

It's up to me weather or not to take offence to it.

I see it like this.

One guy see's poop smeered on the wall!

The other guy see's a masterpiece!

Your call as to what you see. 

"To each, their own" is one of the beauties of art. I have never been a fan of avant-garde, but I won't deny it's validity. I tolerated Yoko's music to get to John's songs. I don't like her music, but it is music nonetheless. I can certainly see why serious art collectors are spending multi-millions on Warhol originals. To own a master from a master? Don't forget, there's people spending several thousand dollars on original pieces by Francois Verlinden on eBay. 

SteveM, looks like you like to keep stirring the pot.  Let it go, the rest of us have.

One last thing, if this was meant for me...

...take flak from people who won't put their own dios on the same slab. A lot more than it takes to knock it.

...you are wrong again.  I have posted many a dio and individual pieces on this site.  My last tank from a week or so ago, an M60A3 TTS, can be found in the Armor forum.  If you would like to take a whack at it, be my guest.  I haven't had a lot of time for dios since I have been in Iraq though.

Doog,

Just goes to show that there are lots of people out there with way too much money and nothing to spend it on.  Yup, it surprises and disgusts me every time one of these pieces of "art" sells for ungodly amounts of money.  Maybe I can mold a ball of Iraqi camel dung into an abstract sculpture and sell it for millions too.  Have to get right on that with all my artistic training and all. 

SteveM wrote:

Back to Vepsa's diorama... I applaud you for your efforts, and welcome your work in the Diorama forum. In my book it belongs, despite what Shep's says. Sure, it's sad to read when people have a hard time wrapping their black and white mentality around Vespa's conceptual, "grey area" diorama work and, instead of moving on, they recite IMPS guidelines in attempts to invalidate (without posting dios of their own creation on here). I think it takes a lot of guts for Vespa to post his work here and take flak from people who won't put their own dios on the same slab. A lot more than it takes to knock it. Or beckon, and then hide behind, someone who will. No more flamin', I swear. Steve

Thank goodness......

Steve, I dont know who this is aimed at, but I could swear that I just saw a moderator asking people to cool it....and then you post this.  It seems like this is raising the old chestnut of "if you dont post  your own work here you cant criticise anyone elses work"  As for the rest of your post, well its just downright insulting.

the doog wrote:

Yup, That's right. S-E-V-E-N-T-Y O-N-E M-I-L-L-I-O-N- D-O-L-L-A-R-S. Something to think about?.......

Doog, Andy has always been interested in money (I also remember seeing him print some dollar bill wallpaper.) so I'm not surprised that his pictures are going for such a premium.

(Andy Warhol, c. 1965, Pencil and ink on paper, 25 1/2 x 39 1/2 inches, Collection of Dorothy Lichtenstein)

It is amazing that some things we don't value ourselves are worth so much to others. But you also have to remember tht the poeple spending $71M on a picture have a LOT of money and that it doesn't hurt the quality of their life on bit. Its a small percentage of their income. I don't care for Warhol's stuff myself, but I do appreciate his importance. Sometimes the hardest thing is to get beyond our emotional response to something and them apply an intellectual rigour to the situation and relearn our response to fit a new definition.

I like RussianFists point...if you take a painting and put it on the floor it isn't a diorama. A dio is a dio if its on the floor or wall. If its on the wall its like looking at google maps on your computer screen!

Steve you have a very good point about the diorama definition. Thanks for looking beyond the current convention. I know I'll never enter one of these in an IPMS competition...not enough plastic!

Back to Vepsa's diorama... I applaud you for your efforts, and welcome your work in the Diorama forum. In my book it belongs, despite what Shep's says.

Sure, it's sad to read when people have a hard time wrapping their black and white mentality around Vespa's conceptual, "grey area" diorama work and, instead of moving on, they recite IMPS guidelines in attempts to invalidate (without posting dios of their own creation on here).

I think it takes a lot of guts for Vespa to post his work here and take flak from people who won't put their own dios on the same slab. A lot more than it takes to knock it. Or beckon, and then hide behind, someone who will.

No more flamin', I swear.

Steve

I could not, can not stand the "paintings" of Andy Warhol!

"What a complete fraud!" I would say every time I saw his simplistic, color-tinted, reproduced photographs hung up somewhere and called "Art". !!

"Who the heck would ever hang that in their bathroom?" I would muse...

Recently, a cropped, duplicated, color-tinted mess called "Green Car Crash" sold at an auction sale for Artwork. It sold for $71,000,000.00.

Yup, That's right. S-E-V-E-N-T-Y O-N-E M-I-L-L-I-O-N- D-O-L-L-A-R-S.

His "Lemon Marilyn"--a garish, yellow-tinted photo of Marilyn Monroe sold at the same auction for $28,000,000. Twenty. Eight. Million.

I'll bet Andy is laughing hysterically in his grave.

What the hell do I know?

Something to think about?.......

Wow, I was going to post some my thoughts here but I see the topic is getting a little heated.

I guess the only thing I have to ask is, If you take a diorama with a sherman and 5 figures and hang it on the wall does it suddenly become a painting?

Guys,

You're more than welcome to argue/discuss the definitions and merit of various art forms. Please, though, refrain from personal attacks.

Kelly, FSM