~ ! Clash in Tunisia ! ~ { Final Photos on page 37 }

modelchasm

While it may be unprofessional, cheap, and sleezy, and ultimately maybe not the best choice Chris could have made ..... Honestly, I can't blame him. We've all been guilty at some point in time or another in letting someone else that's being unprofessional, cheap, and sleezy get under our skin. Whether it be out on the highway or in a forum. We've all been guilty of blowing up .... however "uneccessary" it may be.

I think Indy will be just fine in the long run. He'll keep posting on his WIP's and everything will be finished as he sees it.

 

Nice work on this dio by the way ..... AT-A-BOY, INDY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott~ I'm sure you're right...and thank you for that post. Some of that isn't the easiest to put to words, and I think you made an unquestionably honest go of it.  I appreciate it.

Schnobs

Hey Guys,

I have had misunderstandings on the forums and I have also dealt with them honestly and with maturity. In fact the Doog and I had a misunderstanding about a comment a couple months ago and the elder statesmen of the forums and cooler heads prevaailed and we were able to mend fences have a really great phone conversation and also edit our posts and move on.  Which was really important to me because of the respect I have for Karl and myself and for all the work i put into the WIP.

As everyone is aware of everyone that posted can edit their posts and shake it off which is really the best approach due to the fact that Adam has put a lot of work into this WIP and I beleive it will be a great resource and tutorial going forward.  I also believe it is very important to police ourselves.  My wife calls this men drama!  At least that is what she calls mine.  I had some yesterday at the IPMS Show!  It's no Suprise that artistic people have differences of opinions.

Anyway my heart goes out to the anyone that has had their feelings hurt and remember Peace not Pieces!

 

Edmund, what can I say to that. You're right, and my wife scoffs at the "mandrama" too. I really appreciate you're imput here, and your faith in me as an artist. I suppose this too shall pass. I've gotta get back to work

Thanks my friend!

the doog

Chris, I'm not going to try to get in between you and INDY, or comment on whatever the beef is between you two, but I will say that the posting of PRIVATE conversations is just SLEAZY and CHEAP. Te heck with "Forum decorum"--that's just crosses the line of what a decent human being would do.

That says a lot more about a person than any words that may have been exchanged, in my opinion.

INDY, in fairness, I agree that it was rude for you to tell someone to shove off because they criticized something about your post, or even the magazine. That's not smart behavior for fostering an environment where people will feel welcomed to post their comments.

EVERYONE--can we just liken the decorum to being a guest in someone's house? You wouldn't go in and start complaining about the decor, or layout of their house. Likewise, when you have "guests", you shouldn't berate them or be rude.

Let's edit out the offensive portions, guys, and let this fine thread continue, huh? Nobody is looking any "bigger" for some of the silly things being posted here.

Karl, well said. Thanks for trying to improve the situation. Words of wisdom from a veteran Forum member

Lufttiger

Jeez, what happened here?, i was really enjoying following this thread for a long time now,
and it seems to have been hijacked by personal grudges?

Might i suggest PM's for this sort of thing?, that way it won't look so rude, when Indy has
been working very hard on this project and sharing all his techniques with us.

Anyway enough of that sort of thing, i really like the way your detail painting is going
on the figs, cool to show real equipment too.
Are you giving these guys a full wash?, or just in the creases?

It was 

As far as I'm concerned.... from the start of the problem.

 I'm just trying to contribute some high quality content to this Forum, to give something to those that are interested, show how I do things and have some good conversations that are directly related to the project. I have no problem with pointers or critism from someone who  can be believed to really be trying to help and take part....but not from anyone just waiting for a chance to be critical or lecture me about what a poor job I'm doing,(about 4 people out of  [as of time of writing] - 43,695 Views between the two sites this build is posted on!!  )  I recieve enough respect from many excellent modelers that have assured my this is a great blog, that I really can't be troubled by the likes of these few. The only troubling part is that I like to produce a high quality  thread but cannot be responsible for what some members(or  X-members) try to use the space for. Thank you again to all those that appreciate my work.

The perfect figure if you don't like what you're hearing.

 Work on him went pretty quickly, using methods all conventional to those seen in this blog

 ~Lufttiger~ Thank you for saying all of that an trying to get us back on track---big time!  As for washes, that's always a good step after base coat, to define the subtle fold of clothes, ect. I try to cover one continuous surface at a time and work the wash into the right spots kinda as it dries. This is usually a starting point for shadows for me and later Ill place color very delibertly and carefully wet some areas to get the paint moving and smoothing. So short answer is --both--or either.---often I'll apply a thin line of thin paint into a shadow, and with a 2nd small round moist brush, create a local wet area, and go little by little,across a garmet? Make any sense?

While it may be unprofessional, cheap, and sleezy, and ultimately maybe not the best choice Chris could have made ..... Honestly, I can't blame him. We've all been guilty at some point in time or another in letting someone else that's being unprofessional, cheap, and sleezy get under our skin. Whether it be out on the highway or in a forum. We've all been guilty of blowing up .... however "uneccessary" it may be.

I think Indy will be just fine in the long run. He'll keep posting on his WIP's and everything will be finished as he sees it.

Nice work on this dio by the way ..... AT-A-BOY, INDY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeez, what happened here?, i was really enjoying following this thread for a long time now,
and it seems to have been hijacked by personal grudges?

Might i suggest PM's for this sort of thing?, that way it won't look so rude, when Indy has
been working very hard on this project and sharing all his techniques with us.

Anyway enough of that sort of thing, i really like the way your detail painting is going
on the figs, cool to show real equipment too.
Are you giving these guys a full wash?, or just in the creases?

Hey Guys,

I have had misunderstandings on the forums and I have also dealt with them honestly and with maturity. In fact the Doog and I had a misunderstanding about a comment a couple months ago and the elder statesmen of the forums and cooler heads prevaailed and we were able to mend fences have a really great phone conversation and also edit our posts and move on.  Which was really important to me because of the respect I have for Karl and myself and for all the work i put into the WIP.

As everyone is aware of everyone that posted can edit their posts and shake it off which is really the best approach due to the fact that Adam has put a lot of work into this WIP and I beleive it will be a great resource and tutorial going forward.  I also believe it is very important to police ourselves.  My wife calls this men drama!  At least that is what she calls mine.  I had some yesterday at the IPMS Show!  It's no Suprise that artistic people have differences of opinions.

Anyway my heart goes out to the anyone that has had their feelings hurt and remember Peace not Pieces!

Chris, good call on editing your post.

That says a lot more about a person than any words that may have been exchanged, in my opinion.

INDY, good too, that you've seen the light on this sorry exchange that happened here.

EVERYONE--can we just liken the decorum to being a guest in someone's house? You wouldn't go in and start complaining about the decor, or layout of their house. Likewise, when you have "guests", you shouldn't berate them or be rude.

Let's edit out the offensive portions, guys, and let this fine thread continue, huh? Nobody is looking any "bigger" for some of the silly things being posted here.

Thanks for listening and problem solving on this one everyone. I'm sorry I felt it took such a rash action on my part.

No attempt to be anything other than helpful and I'm sorry it was taken a very differnt direction and turned nasty.

I'll be around keeping an eye on some builds and some friends.

I hope everyone the best in their endevors and builds.

*INDY

I'm not going to quote your little rant so you can go back and edit it

It is good netiquette to crop down responses to focus any partiular statement one comments on.

Are you accusing me of altering statements I quote and then comment on? If so, could you please point to any examples of such?

DoC 

Like I said Coffee--leave it where it was--I'm not going to quote your little rant so you can go back and edit it--it's out of place as well----go put your suggestions about the magazine in the Suggestions & Feedback Forum.(that's where your negitive feelings about FSM belong [if anywhere]) Who I am is obvious--I'm the author of this thread and I'm telling you this is no place for bashing the magazine. Continued posts along these lines are not welcome. Thanks. I came here to update my build log-so please stay out of the way

*INDY

 speaking out against the magazine in this space is not welcome, 

I don't know who you are or what role or relation you have with FSM, or why yoi pretend to speak on behalf of the publishers.

Now, in my work, feedback about what people are unhappy with, what might be the reasons why they go to my competitors, is very valuable. It allows me to judge how my potential customers value my product, and why I lose business. It allows me to change the stuff that cause people not to buy what I attempt to sell. That way I can stay in business. 

The worst feedback is the unconditional positive stuff. It tells you nothing of value.

DoC 

Dr. Coffee

On the other hand, I have more or less stopped buying FSM because the magazine contains less and less technique and seems to drift more over to discussing what details to convert, if one wants to model an obscure version of an arcane subject. Probably interesting to the afficionados of that obscure subject, but not what I am looking for. I pick up the ideas I need, like how to fill seems and gaps with putty and cleaning it with solvents, in other magazines.

DoC  

You know Dr Coffee... I think .that's just garbage. Yeah there's plenty of complex conversion articles, but there's  endless basic how-to articles in Finescale--PLENTY---and speaking out against the magazine in this space is not welcome,  AND  with respect to all involved, this conversation is  is the kind of thing that weakens the quality of a good WIP -. so please...lets just leave it here.

Dr. Coffee

 

the doog:

 

 

Dr. Coffee:

 The tutorial aspect is the difference between inspiring people to become better at what they do, and driving them away from the hobby.

DoC

 

Dr Coffee, with all due respect to your well-intentioned sentiments and observations here, I would suggest that you try to post a WIP thread so that you get more insight into the actual process and difficulties of what you have articulated in your suggestions. Specifically, trying to find a way to photograph your actual technique-in-motion, as it were.

 

I remember seeing something a few months ago, about how to pain figure heads. Showed a lot of images at various stages, basic coats, basic shadows, highlights, blending... I also had the pleasure of enjoying your own tutorials on how to assemble armor tracks. Stuff like that strip of tape on the table, that lets you hold the tracklink in place before you glue it at the end. So it can be done.

On the other hand, I have more or less stopped buying FSM because the magazine contains less and less technique and seems to drift more over to discussing what details to convert, if one wants to model an obscure version of an arcane subject. Probably interesting to the afficionados of that obscure subject, but not what I am looking for. I pick up the ideas I need, like how to fill seems and gaps with putty and cleaning it with solvents, in other magazines.

A lot of people here have a lot to teach. The lurkers, like me, have a lot to learn. The question is how to have all these interests come together.

DoC  

All I was trying to say was, it's a different horse to ride when you can just get on it and gallop, then when you have to board, feed, brush, and shoe the horse!

I'm supposed to have an article being published soon, I think. On weathering and using filters over a German halftrack. Hopefully, it will be of use to you and others enough to buy the issue!

the doog

Dr. Coffee:

 The tutorial aspect is the difference between inspiring people to become better at what they do, and driving them away from the hobby.

DoC

 

Dr Coffee, with all due respect to your well-intentioned sentiments and observations here, I would suggest that you try to post a WIP thread so that you get more insight into the actual process and difficulties of what you have articulated in your suggestions. Specifically, trying to find a way to photograph your actual technique-in-motion, as it were.

I remember seeing something a few months ago, about how to pain figure heads. Showed a lot of images at various stages, basic coats, basic shadows, highlights, blending... I also had the pleasure of enjoying your own tutorials on how to assemble armor tracks. Stuff like that strip of tape on the table, that lets you hold the tracklink in place before you glue it at the end. So it can be done.

On the other hand, I have more or less stopped buying FSM because the magazine contains less and less technique and seems to drift more over to discussing what details to convert, if one wants to model an obscure version of an arcane subject. Probably interesting to the afficionados of that obscure subject, but not what I am looking for. I pick up the ideas I need, like how to fill seems and gaps with putty and cleaning it with solvents, in other magazines.

A lot of people here have a lot to teach. The lurkers, like me, have a lot to learn. The question is how to have all these interests come together.

DoC  

Thanks to you Doog for articulating all that. I'm not sure if my thread really suits a "casual stroller-by" , there is alot to stop and check out......like I said I think it's worth it  ....but it is" novice friendly"

I've posted in Autos..     my 

                        ----You won't see the "big picture" until it's complete

                       ----If there's any specific questions--please ask them....regarding technique or whatever else you think is missing ...as Doog said..it's a ton of work already---you are saying I need to do an even more involved detailed explaination and I haven't heard you ask anything. My thread doesn't asume this is the 1st WIP someones ever read, but does include tons of basic technique, and more. I don't stop to explain the jargon commonly used, as that really gets tiresome for most people to read- and I realize alot of details can hide behind any one simple word, such as wash, blend, and darken-  but if there's some actual questions..please ask.

Dr. Coffee

 

the doog:

 

 

So carry on, and the reward will be a long WIP that serves as an inspiration and tutorial for others. I always find that to be good enough in itself!

 

 

 

Hmm... I have enjoyed this thread to some extent, but have a couple of comments on how to improve it, for people like me, the casual stroller-by novice:

1. This thread has offspring in a couple of fora, which is confusing at best; all out annoying at worst. Keep it in one place, and instead cross-post, if that's possible within the constraints of this forum server.
2. It would be nice to have one post to get to (the first), to see the whole picture. It will become a big post in time, but when things have grown into dozens of pages and hundreds (or thousands) of posts, it is impossible to see the big picture by browsing every individual post.
3. What I personally would like to see more of in this thread, is technique. The posts I have seen over the past couple of weeks show a lot of results of what you have done; not how you achieved them. As a matter of fact, without learning the techniques, I - the novice modeler - is left dumbstruck: "I will never be able to do that... better find something else to spend time with." The tutorial aspect is the difference between inspiring people to become better at what they do, and driving them away from the hobby.

DoC

You'll also see how the progression of commentary goes, and the sometimes daunting task of having to acknowledge every comment for fear of offending someone by omission. The threads grow long in part due to human nature; ie, the sense of community that fosters dialogue, and what can seem like "chatter". But it's all a part of the dynamics of the site. Honestly, you should try to do a WIP yourself to see what's involved.

I think INDY is doing a fine job of walking us through the steps here. It's hard to photograph a technique when you're holding the paintbrush or modeling knife in one hand...

the doog

So carry on, and the reward will be a long WIP that serves as an inspiration and tutorial for others. I always find that to be good enough in itself!

Hmm... I have enjoyed this thread to some extent, but have a couple of comments on how to improve it, for people like me, the casual stroller-by novice:

1. This thread has offspring in a couple of fora, which is confusing at best; all out annoying at worst. Keep it in one place, and instead cross-post, if that's possible within the constraints of this forum server.
2. It would be nice to have one post to get to (the first), to see the whole picture. It will become a big post in time, but when things have grown into dozens of pages and hundreds (or thousands) of posts, it is impossible to see the big picture by browsing every individual post.
3. What I personally would like to see more of in this thread, is technique. The posts I have seen over the past couple of weeks show a lot of results of what you have done; not how you achieved them. As a matter of fact, without learning the techniques, I - the novice modeler - is left dumbstruck: "I will never be able to do that... better find something else to spend time with." The tutorial aspect is the difference between inspiring people to become better at what they do, and driving them away from the hobby.

DoC

*INDY

~Bob ~ Right on Man ~ I appreciate that--Don't worry I know what's up...tons of pics it will be!

~Andy~ Thanks Buddy~Trying to produce something of high quality takes alot of time and hard work and sometimes doesn't seem appreciated or  worth it......some of those lurkers are saboteurs..some just want you to need alot of help and ask questions......some are just waiting to pounce on you for the tiniest error.....probably I should try to get people more involved.....generally I just do my own research as I go and then demonstrate what I want to do here, not try to get the whole forums hands in it.  Thanks to you for loving it for what it's worth!.

Indy,

Just wanted to chime in about the whole post count/views/comments thing. As you know, I've done many. many WIPs here, and like you, I'm often puzzled by the ration of "hits" to comments left.Sometimes it does seem as if your efforts are not appreciated. 

However, the somewhat-altruistic impulse to give back to the hobby, to educate, to inspire, and to be recognized as one who will take the time and effort to actually share his skill and ideas is what drives me--and in the end, the result is that you get the net rewards of increasing your reputation and notability through those efforts alone.

You have the disadvantage that you ARE in a forum that is undoubtedly less-traveled than others. I really never go into the "Figures" forums unless prompted. So you may have people who have already commented just coming back to have a looksee, but thinking that they already commented so...

You want tough? Try posting in "Auto's"--lol! Man, it's tough to get almost anything happening over there at all. And other forums are even more like a desert island where you're almost like, building for yourself. Basically, what we do is a spectator sport for others in a big way, and let's face it too--figures are pretty much self-contained builds, where there's not necessarily a lot of need for corrections or input, especially when you seem to know what you're doing, and have a method that is producing fine results.

So carry on, and the reward will be a long WIP that serves as an inspiration and tutorial for others. I always find that to be good enough in itself!

~Bob ~ Right on Man ~ I appreciate that--Don't worry I know what's up...tons of pics it will be!

~Andy~ Thanks Buddy~Trying to produce something of high quality takes alot of time and hard work and sometimes doesn't seem appreciated or  worth it......some of those lurkers are saboteurs..some just want you to need alot of help and ask questions......some are just waiting to pounce on you for the tiniest error.....probably I should try to get people more involved.....generally I just do my own research as I go and then demonstrate what I want to do here, not try to get the whole forums hands in it.  Thanks to you for loving it for what it's worth!.

Adam, just keep going... Figures and Diomara don't get much attention like other forums but plenty of lurkers.  I see that your forum has been visited more than 13,500 times!  A good sign that people kept coming back again and again.  I have been following your work for a long time... I don't see many great toots on figure painting since many of us fear painting figures.  Trust me I'd buy you plenty of if we ever run into each other at national model show.

Hey Boydd,

Man thanks for throwin in a good answer to that accordian question--sorry to try and shut down that convo,,I was just amazed to see 3 posts about that 2 months later from people that had nothing at all to say about what was really going on on the thread....Like I said..at least I know you are viewing it, and you've already told me you like what I'm doing so--that's cool--you're always cool Buddy--thanx!

Adam - I want more man, this is just awsome.  Your attention to detail and history is absolutly spot on brother.  More pics man....more pics.

Bob

~Edmund~ A great thanks ! Great words from a great modeler!

I've been making good use of the Daler Rowney Inks for some effects also. Here I've used different amounts of Sepia (sometimes darkened with black) , thinned with just a little water it gets to be very easily manipulated from opaque to semi-transparent.  I've used the ink over a white primer coat followed by a wash of yellow-khaki Vallejo mix.

Nice Detail Painting Adam!  Your attention to detail is a beacon of Excellence!

~My DAK security man is just about there.......

I used the inks, grey and black,  atop off-wite and cream-colored Vallejo, to get this dirty looking bandage on his hand settled. It's a difficult feature to make look right...I tried a fw things and  it looks quite good now --- in person at least.---(I think the goggles look very nice in the above shot)

I wanted to try to go beyond a bit, really I think he's on par with the state of my figure painting, no better or worse,....I'd like to take a little more care even,...but there's a point I feel like I've fiddled enough...and in the interests of completing the Dio finally, I'd say  yes he's    done. (That's nothing needing editing there, it's his entrenching tool, I swear it!)

 

I shall return with more ! Thanks for your interest guys....................

Hi Chris-- Thanks for the suggestions--I think some of those are good one's, though I'm not likely to go back and change the 1st post, but  I've updated it's title all along as to what's going on on the current page--just the best way for this thread to work for me.( I supose if it said"Figure work on current page it would be more clear for them I have planned to create a table of contents when it's finished, to place at the end...and now that you  mention it maybe at the start too. You know...Bike started/bike finished/kubel started/ kubel finished, ect. that sort of thing.  I

 People still have dial-up? Wow,really? sorry for them, they may not care for any of my threads. I like alot of pictures, although making the thread this complete has added one of those months to the build! It was supposed to be a 4 month project......

 ..But I don't care to direct people to any one page or show the end result on the 1st---if somone's interested they will read it through--it's all quite good stuff .

Nice looking figures, very intense detail work you have going on looks like it's getting close to the end now

so nice to get those on topic compliments.

Other guys~ Asked and answered regarding the Verlinden accordian, a chunk of resin unused in this build.

{at least I know you're reading this long long blog!}

Not surprising after 6 months, 28 pages and countless pictures, you'll always have people stumble across a thread who don't feel like clicking through for an hour or so, and throw dial-up into the mix?? No chance.

If you don't want to continue reiterating yourself, one idea is when you update again, maybe throw in some of the past page numbers and pictures to go along so someone new to the thread can say "oh alright- on page ___ he's painted the groundwork" or whatever without having to click back and find it. Then you can go ahead and continue updating it.

Even the title is misleading as it simply says "Pak 40 Complete" or "figure work" but theres no page number showing where things start and finish.

What I do if I anticipate a long WIP thread is on the very first page I will keep the most current picture- or if it's stages- I'll keep the most current picture of the groundwork, the figures, the vehicles all right there.

As your first page has pictures of all the kits you're using you could go back and edit it to include current pictures of all those kits if you so desired.

Just some suggestions as I've noticed you've complained about off topic comments in at least two threads

Anyway keep up the good work!

the doog

WOW, Indy--these figures are really coming together. There's a nice depth to the painting, and good shading and tone all around!

Thank you Karl-! -All those obervations are great to hear. I know I'm going into alot of build and paint detail with this blog and it's gotten long  long  long. ---->so nice to get those on topic compliments.

Other guys~ Asked and answered regarding the Verlinden accordian, a chunk of resin unused in this build.

{at least I know you're reading this long long blog!}