I made the sewer much more dirty and I will take the poster down, I re-made the rat and I think it looks much better. I will take some pics and post them soon.

I never thought of it that way. Then again, I never seen any rats before....

 (I'll look up some photos, and I'll see how large the adverage one is. I'll admit, with rats, mice, and snakes, I don't care which type, or size, they are as long as I don't have to deal with them.)

Railfan 233

So yes, while rats of that size are not common, they sometimes do exist.

 

Well I think viewers like to look at things that they can understand and be familiar with. Where an abnormally large rat may exist, like you said, they aren't common and therefore would be rather unfamiliar in the eyes of a regular person, and would probably be seen as unrealistic or as Boyd said, comedic in a way. In each person's imagination, one can bring up the image of a rat and compare it to what they see here and if the pictures don't fit, I think that would detract from the overall appearance of the scene.

Its similar to what I did in my Pirates diorama with the fish. The wrong color makes it look a little cartoonish and ends up being distracting.

A lot of things in art and especially modeling relies on context. A tank is just a tank, but add figures and now you've created scale, dimension, story, drama, in a way that most people could relate to. If something isn't quite right about one of these aspects, it'll take away from the overall effect of the diorama.

I think he is on a good pace for making a great scene, I just think the rat should be scaled down a wee.

Railfan 233

So yes, while rats of that size are not common, they sometimes do exist.

(If you doubt me, get the book Funnyist Cop Stories Ever  and I can tell you, the story is in there)

That might well be true, but it muddles up the story of his dio.  The whole point of a dio is that the viewer should be able to 'get' the story at a glance.  Is he trying to tell a story about the huge rats in the sewer, or is the trying to tell a story about city fighting during WWII?  It is possible that he could use a really large rat, and incorporate it into the story, make it a bit of 'comic relief', but he would have to rework the layout considerably, in my opinion.  Because the RAT is not what this dio is supposed to be about.

Yes, the rat is a little on the cat-size of the realm, but I have read stories from a book about police stories in where an NYPD officer went to clear a basement, and a rat about the size of a baby ran across his foot and the room.

So yes, while rats of that size are not common, they sometimes do exist.

(If you doubt me, get the book Funnyist Cop Stories Ever  and I can tell you, the story is in there)

oddmanrush

 

As many have pointed out as well, the sewer is a dirty place, so it may be a good idea to dirty up the men a little as well as their surroundings. Trudging through a dank and nasty tunnel full of nasty substances would put a little grime on the boots and pant legs of your Germans. Just a thought.

As I went back and looked over your most recent pictures, the thing that jumps out at me is that, absent the ladder and manhole cover, your sewer does not really look like a sewer.  It looks more like a street and the Germans are on the sidewalk, maybe in a tunnel or walking under a bridge.  The poster on the wall on enhances that feeling - I know the sewers got a lot of use in the war, but I think that poster would serve you better crumpled up on the ground.

Again, I know this point has been made before, but if this is a sewer, particularly one in a wartime city, with a battle raging, it should be NASTY dirty... and like oddmanrush said, anyone in it is going to be dirty too...

Good work so far! I agree with what everyone has said about the rat, I also think it may be a little bit too large, almost cat sized.

As many have pointed out as well, the sewer is a dirty place, so it may be a good idea to dirty up the men a little as well as their surroundings. Trudging through a dank and nasty tunnel full of nasty substances would put a little grime on the boots and pant legs of your Germans. Just a thought.

Good effort on your rat.  I think his proportions are a little off - legs are too long, butt needs to be bigger, the nose is long relative to the rest of the body, and like tonka said, try using some thin wire for the tail (you could coat it with putty to bulk it up a little and taper it towards the tip).  Take a look at some pictures of rats online to get an image in your head.

One final thought - actually two: first, remember that sewers are pretty nasty places - I'd add a lot more grime and crud and junk down there.  Second, you can have a dead rat, but I'd have at least a couple that are alive as well...

Ryan,

Dio looks great,, as for the rat,,I would say maybe use wire for the tail instead of clay, that way you can get it thinner and then I would trim down the nose, head and ears,, It looks armadillo-like now,, But excellent work!! Looking forward to seeing more of your 'talent' !!

Vespa boy- your manhole cover looks great, mine is much simpler than yours.

Everyone - I added some garbage to the sewer, here are some pics. I added Testors dull cote to the figures but they still seem shiny to me. Nothing is glued down yet so if you think I should move it please tell me.

I

This is a rat that I made out of sculpy clay. Something looks wrong to me but I can't figure out what. This has not been baked yet so I can still cange it.

Hey 101, I would suggest watching The Third Man, which ends up in the sewers of Vienna. A great film and some good reference material too.

I made this Boston-based manhole cover for a project...I wonder if you were not able to make something more prototypical for the manhole cover. They are usually little works of design-art in themselves.

101stAirborne

Everyone- I am going to add some trash to it, some old newspapers, bottles,  maybe a propaganda poster.

...and some rats??

Everyone- I am going to add some trash to it, some old newspapers, bottles,  maybe a propaganda poster.

Hey, 101st, if Al is offering to help you out, you can be certain he is going to help you out.  Al is definately on the up and up.

Rats would be a PERFECT addition to your sewer.  I'd take Al up on his offer in a heartbeat, if I were you!!

101st, I had posted about the rats early on...if you'd like a couple, send your ground address to ajlafleche@comcast.net and I'll put a couple in an envelope to you. There are more in the  set than I'll need. If you feel you need a reference to make sure I'm on the up and up, check my bio and contact Rob Grovonius who posts here and bbrowniii and dupes who've both been to my house.

Lookin' sharp, Ryan.  I'll echo the comments - that sewer is too clean - put some trash and stuff down there, fill it up with... crap... figuratively speaking of course...

Yep I just added dullecote to it.

As you can see from this picture the figures are still shiny.

How about some Dullcote buddy? Nothing more important to add than that.

{Good job replacing the photos--now we can see it--thanx!}

I must say, 101st airborne, it seems that your dioramas look better and better, each time I see them. With the sewer diorama, I do suggest adding trash and other stuff. Mabe some wine bottles (both broken and in-tact) as well as newspapers and posters both in the walkway next to the water in the sewer, as well as accually in the water, as in floating in the flow of water.

I also looked at the photos of the diorama with the T-34, and I'm very intreagued and interested. Please post a thred on it here,too. I can't wait to learn more about it.

no I don't edit my pictures, I just upload strait from the camera.

There are better pics at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/47988165@N08/4714408692/

~~Hey Buddy--DO want help? Are you uploading straight from your camera? OR Do you upload to your PC to a photo editor? If you 1st upload to a simple program like Picasa   (free from Google) then you can filter, crop, tint,ect each photo and then EXPORT them in groups of a given size (really easy)  Use the full-size file from your camera, and then Export each picture at around 600-900 pixels

I am using the largest size on my camera, but for some reason when I make it bigger it stays the same size when I post it. I will try my best to get better pics of the finished diorama.

~101st~ Hey Buddy-you think maybe after you get that dullcote on you can post some decent size photo? Can

can't tell what it looks like at all in your 240x130 pixel images----Personally I'm using 1024x599 on my largest pictures---that does take longer to load--they dont need to be that big--but in the 600--800 range.

Hey wow, looking good so far. Maybe add a little trash but other than that a little matte varnish and you're done. Really like the idea and it came together so well.

Here is the almost finished diorama. I still need to spray the figures with dull cote and add a figure, but he is not finished yet. Hope you enjoy. All comments are welcome.

 I mixed Enviro-tex with some green and a little brown paint to make the sewer water.

  As you can see from this picture the figures are still shiny.

This is the top of the diorama

I Like what you're going to do with this Dio. Keep it up.

The split level is interesting, like capturing the feel of day and night. Definitely will look good in a box Dio, then controling lighting in the sewer will be much easier. You can also do it minus the box if you prefer with careful painting...darker shades underground as suggested by a fellow modeler. That will be a nice contrast.

Rats are optional. Either you have many or none as they would have disappeared with all the commosion thats going on.

Honest comment on figure...well the picture is small plus the strong light is casting shadows over areas like the eyes that I can't see so from what I can tell, overall it's not bad. Add pin washes to bring out detail on the battle dress also at the end to get rid of the shine with a layer of dull cote. If you can post a better picture I can help further with comments.

Cheers,

Richard

Yes they are great suggestions Indy, and I would like to have a rat in the sewer but I don't know where I would put it, and I don't want to buy a set of rats if I only need one.

Great suggestions from great modelers you got 101st!

That sewer set is OOP & pictured in Shep Paine's book

Al ~ good idea with the rats--Mike Mclaughlin of Mil Mod Mag just posted that set yesterday(painted far better than the boxart I might add)

To give the impression of part of the scene being underground, as opposed to an arch, I'd paint the lower sections much darker. Do the same withthe figures. If the guy climbing out acn be seen from below, paint those parts that can be seen a much darker version of the part above the street. You can find these rats for the dio here under Plus Models.

For depictions of sewers, I would suggest finding the Polish film "Kanal". It can be found easily on Amazon, but only with subtitles and B&W. Its about the General Uprising in Warsaw of Aug- Sept. 1944. The sewers were used alot in the battles as means of communication and manuever for the Polish Home Army. The film depicts a Home Army unit making its way through the sewers. In Polish kanal can mean canal, ditch, channel as well as sewer hence the film title. This film is very powerful and won a Cannes Award. It was also banned during the Soviet period becuase of the final scene. Notes to others, the film shows PIATs being used as well as Goliaths.

Mike T.