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Well Done! Restarted 2/22/15

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  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Central CA
Posted by Division 6 on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:01 PM

i seemed to have missed your last few updates even though I usually check on mondays.

Your builds are always informative and entertaining and the highlight of the week.

 

Keep up the good work.Toast

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Montreal, Quebec
Posted by wizardz on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:05 PM

when i grow up, i wanna have mad skillz like chuck.

 

WIP: 1/48 Italeri A-10 Thunderbolt II

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Whidbey Island, Washington
Posted by chukw on Sunday, May 22, 2011 10:34 PM

Awww, you guys!  EmbarrassedBig Smile

 

Well, some days you get the bear, some days the bear over-runs your base and drives off in your favorite tank.   Wendy Wehrmacht knows the feeling- right, Wendy?  

















  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lafayette la
Posted by 40.mm on Monday, May 23, 2011 12:05 AM

i  for one dont want wendy giving me a ration of---rust----

awaiting next class..

http://www.vairhead.net/forum/dhg.jpg

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: back country of SO-CAL, at the birth place of Naval Aviation
Posted by DUSTER on Monday, May 23, 2011 12:41 AM

Chuck

Nice save!   Say, next time your in the paint removal mood give soilant -er- Simple Green a try.  I have had good results useing it on acrylics, enamels and Alclad.

  ( I must love to remove the paint from my projects, other wise I'd learn to airbrush better Dunce )

Steve

Building the perfect model---just not quite yet  Confused

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Monday, May 23, 2011 1:05 AM

Ja, you will get it right!  Loving this... nice save! Yes

Andy

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Central CA
Posted by Division 6 on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 4:10 PM

To bad about the hair spray attempt but at least it was salvageable.

Another learning experience we can all benefit from.

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: The Great North Woods, Maine
Posted by Chazzer on Tuesday, May 24, 2011 4:47 PM

    WOW!!  I had no idea what I was missing! I've been doing i bit of post surfing and I wiped-out onto your thread. What an excellent tutorial. I follow a few modelers, mostly in Armor, but this is one build I will follow as much as possible!  Now that I have a bit more "down time" I can't wait for more.

I have to say thank you for taking the time to put together this awesome build! I know that it not only takes time to do the actual built but you go above AND beyond when you take the time to photograph and illustrate the post.

Thanks again

 

IAFChazzer(Scott)







ChazzerBlack Eye

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: South Carolina
Posted by jetmodeler on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 6:30 AM

Nice save. Too bad the hairspray technique didn't work.

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
Posted by Jim Barton on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 1:23 PM

Maybe too much hairspray to begin with?

"Whaddya mean 'Who's flying the plane?!' Nobody's flying the plane!"

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Central CA
Posted by Division 6 on Wednesday, May 25, 2011 1:35 PM

I've seen many modelers mention they use Tresemme brand hair spray.


 

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Ottawa,Ontario,Canada
Posted by modeler#1 on Wednesday, June 1, 2011 4:09 PM

It looks awsome.

On the Bench: Nothing atm

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Friday, June 3, 2011 7:47 PM

Chuck,

A great little WIP--you've got a real "style" to your postings!

I've had a good deal of experience with the Hair Spray method (see my Impala in the current FSM issue) and I believe that your error in your technique was the use of Future under the spray. Next time, leave that for whatever decal work or sealing you do under non-Hair projects. It looks to me like whatever devil's brew of chemicals you got between the Hair Spray and the Vallejo thinner has reacted with the Future. In this picture...

chukw

 


http://www.chukw.com/Hobby/Well/Well_086.jpg

...there's nothing shiny there to indicate that the Future survived.I would strongly suggest using a regular spray lacquer sealer like Testor's to seal next time. You don't want a water-soluble sealer when you're going to be adding water and massaging and degrading the finish like you do in the process.

I would also strongly suggest that you use a aerosol hair spray.-- the "hold" on it is not really an issue. I use regular Aqua Net and it's a perfect product that gives predictable results.

I also second "Simple Green" for removing acrylics. There;s simply nothing better. Works like magic.

Too bad about your efforts here but you should give it another go with the stuff I've suggested. The results will be absolutely worth it. There's no success without failure first!

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Whidbey Island, Washington
Posted by chukw on Sunday, June 5, 2011 9:34 PM

Guys, you floor me with all these great responses- many thanks!   You know- I did try simple green and got lukewarm results- do you use it full-strength?  I got me some Tresemme- see how it worked for me!

I did stop using Future as a barrier- I thin maybe once for the first layer- but the following layers are cool without it.  I shy away from solvent-based things- it incurs the wrath of the wife-thing!  ;D

 

Anywho- thanks again- and read on!

 

I did a lot of checking- and reading- and asking- and I gave it another try.  Let's go, Wendy!
























  • Member since
    April 2011
  • From: PL
Posted by KFS-miniatures on Monday, June 6, 2011 12:49 AM

I'm not the real expert with the hair spray technique but I would like to share some of my notices about that:

tamiya's acrlisc are not the best for this technique- they are not an ordinary acrylisc and due ther excellent adhsion and really hard coat ther are really hard to 'damage'.

as a finial coat simple water based acrylics, like Lifecolor or Vallejo, are much better.

if after all for a final layer were used tamiyas or gunzes, the best liquid for wetting the surface is microscale's SOL decal fluid. in fact it is strongly thinned cleaner for acrylics. it's a bit caustic for the paint surface and softing it well, but not enough to damage the base coat protected with clear warnish.

Honi soit qui mal y pense

~kamil

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Memphis TN
Posted by Heavens Eagle on Monday, June 6, 2011 1:11 AM

As I am not sure how you are going to be showing the engine off on this build, as a vintage VW expert the engine needs just a little more work.

 

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, June 6, 2011 8:00 AM

KFS-miniatures

tamiya's acrlisc are not the best for this technique- they are not an ordinary acrylisc and due ther excellent adhsion and really hard coat ther are really hard to 'damage'.

as a finial coat simple water based acrylics, like Lifecolor or Vallejo, are much better.

if after all for a final layer were used tamiyas or gunzes, the best liquid for wetting the surface is microscale's SOL decal fluid. in fact it is strongly thinned cleaner for acrylics. it's a bit caustic for the paint surface and softing it well, but not enough to damage the base coat protected with clear warnish.

With all due respect to you, KFS (and not wanting to hijack your thread, Chuck), I have to refute this assertion. In all seriousness, I don't think that you quite understand the technique? You're making the incorrect assumption that the key to the technique is about how you dissolve/attack the paint--which is not the way the technique works.

I use Tamiya acrylics exclusively for the hair spray technique, and they are an excellent choice. In fact the hair spray technique has very little to do with the actual BRAND of paint, and really has everything to do with the TYPE of paint and both the type and brand of hair spray, as well as the way you apply it.

Here's how it works. Hair Spray is water-soluble. Therefore, the technique involves the application of paint over a water-soluble coat of hair spray, which--when attacked by water--will dissolve under the paint, carrying away the paint in varying degrees depending on several factors.

First is the type of paint coat that you first put the hair spray over. The glossier the paint, the larger "chunks" of paint that will usually come off--and the harder it can be to control if you're hasty. Enamel paints are perfect for the first coat, but a coat of gloss lacquer over any acrylic will work. In fact, in THAT case, Tamiya acrylics are an excellent choice because of their relatively hardier resistance to "fogging" or degradation to a lacquer coat.

Second, the type and depth of the hair spray coat is important. I go for Aqua Net hair spray precisely because it's a cheap, nasty hair spray. (I know it because I used it for my own "Tower of Power" teased-up big hair in the 80's; think Axl Rose in the "Welcome to the Jungle" but 10x higher! lol) Aqua Net is easy to work with and "cheap" means a high water content without a lot of other chemicals designed to conditioner your hair at the same time, blah, blah--which translates into "harder to work with". The heavier the coat you put down, the more it will react to the water and more easily it will be to remove. Now, don't "drown: the model in it--Aqua Net sprays pretty heavy, so one good, covering coat suffices for me.

How long you wait after you spray both the hair spray AND the paint down is a factor too. Obviously, the sooner you start the removal process, the easier it is to remove the hair spray coat, and the easier it will be to remove the paint if the paint itself is not dried completely. I know I know--I said that attacking the paint is not the key, but in this case, the barely-dried paint will let more water through to dissolve the hair spray and in that case lead to greater dissolution of the hair spray, ergo, more overcoat of paint will come off as well. I give the hair spray about an hour to dry, and I start in on the paint coat after about 10-15 minutes after I spray it. Longer (maybe an hour?) if I want a more restrained look; i.e., less paint removal.

You should also have planned in advance to have a few "bare areas" where you mask small chips of masking tape that you can remove to use as "entry points" for the next step--the application of water. If you cover the entire model with paint, it's going to be harder to get water UNDER the paint without some sort of breach of that coat.

Next is the way you remove it. You should use warm water--NOT a decal solution! You'll just be wasting expensive decal solution for nothing and risking attacking the paint itself--which is NOT the point of the technique. Wet the area, let it sit for 5-10 minutes, and then go to town. Use anything you want to scrape away--stiff brushes, toothpicks, metal implements, sanding sticks. I've used all the above for different effects and depth of removal.

Lastly, check out my Impala article in the new Finescale. It details the whole technique there.

Have fun and good luck!

  • Member since
    April 2011
  • From: PL
Posted by KFS-miniatures on Monday, June 6, 2011 10:02 AM

the doog

I don't think that you quite understand the technique? You're making the incorrect assumption that the key to the technique is about how you dissolve/attack the paint--which is not the way the technique works.

 

don't worry, i understand hairspray technique well, and also have some practice with it.

since i'm using mr. color thinner for tamiyas, their coat and adhesion make them almost impossible to remove even they are applied on a thick coat of hair spray.

Honi soit qui mal y pense

~kamil

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Monday, June 6, 2011 12:52 PM

KFS-miniatures

 

 the doog:

 

I don't think that you quite understand the technique? You're making the incorrect assumption that the key to the technique is about how you dissolve/attack the paint--which is not the way the technique works.

 

 

 

don't worry, i understand hairspray technique well, and also have some practice with it.

since i'm using mr. color thinner for tamiyas, their coat and adhesion make them almost impossible to remove even they are applied on a thick coat of hair spray.

Well in that case I'd recommend you to stop using another manufacturer's thinner for Tamiya paints. They work quite well with Tamiya thinners and are well-suited for the technique--as my experience with them and the results have shown. I've never had a problem degrading them--only once when the base coat wasn't sealed and it came off under heavy scrubbing.

You might also be leaving the paint to dry too long. You really should attack the finish very soon after spraying it on, Before it has a chance to "cure". I've found this to be the easiest way to work the finish.

You might also want to try another hair spray?

  • Member since
    April 2011
  • From: PL
Posted by KFS-miniatures on Monday, June 6, 2011 2:32 PM

Am I said that i have a problem with hair spray technique? I don't need to change anything. Especially the thinner, because I'm using Mr. Color thinner for Tamiyas to get the best available paint for modelers

Honi soit qui mal y pense

~kamil

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Whidbey Island, Washington
Posted by chukw on Monday, June 6, 2011 4:22 PM

Hey guys- thanks for all the pointers! 

Heaven's Eagle, I've only begun to paint that engine- your pics are most welcome!  Now, is that an exact restoration of a WWII engine?  I've found many pics of new and post-war engines in replica - but knowing what's what and what rusted and so on is so helpful- thanks!

 

The doog and KFS- one thing I've found is that there are MANY ways of doing just about anything, let alone Hairspray Paint Mangling!  Wink  I'm taking all your tips to heart and giving everything a try.  The last paint on the well applied this way will be patches of bright green moss- big chips will be very useful here.  Kamil is right about Mr. Color Thinner- it is very useful for Tamiya paints, which are a form of lacquer, to the best of my understanding.  Doog, you idea of a masked "sally port" for the water makes perfect sense.  

 

Again- many thanks- and cheers!

chuk

  • Member since
    August 2007
  • From: back country of SO-CAL, at the birth place of Naval Aviation
Posted by DUSTER on Monday, June 6, 2011 4:53 PM
chukw wrote the following post on Sunday, June 05, 2011
Guys, you floor me with all these great responses- many thanks!   You know- I did try simple green and got lukewarm results- do you use it full-strength?
in a word Yes.    I usually put the model in an container (i.e. plastic shoe type box -with snap on lid) fill in as much Simple Green as needed - say 1/2 way on the model- put the model in, snap on the lid, let set for over night.   The next day try to scrub off the paint.     Results will determine on reemersion or not- after which the other half can be soaked.
The age and thus "dryness" of the paint will have an effect on the timeing. 
HTH        

Steve

Building the perfect model---just not quite yet  Confused

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Whidbey Island, Washington
Posted by chukw on Sunday, June 26, 2011 9:05 PM

Thanks, Steve- that's good intel and will be added to the armory!

Well, work intruded on the weekend a wee bit, bit I've got a little progress to show.  Take over, Wendy!















  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: East Bay, CA
Posted by Lundergaard on Monday, June 27, 2011 10:41 AM

chuk it all looks great!  that fountain is really starting to pay off and i think the solder exhaust headers were blessing in disguise.  they look much better than the plastic ones.  i owned a 1977 BMW R100s so you'll need to get those headers chromed up and put some bluing on the pipes near the cylinder head.  Wink

what is the reasoning for doing washes over gloss instead of matte?  i do them over gloss on aircraft but over matte for land-based vehicles.  curious to hear your opinion on it.

thanks

andy

  • Member since
    July 2011
Posted by jwaj2006 on Saturday, July 2, 2011 3:30 PM

just so you know the exhaust on that bike should NOT be chromed, they should be rusted, the military didn't chrome anything on either side of the war, anything that didn't have to be, you didn't want a shiny part on a vehicle that hinted to your enemy your location

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Whidbey Island, Washington
Posted by chukw on Friday, July 8, 2011 10:44 AM

Thanks, guys!  That bike will be a war-weary old ride, having spent a lot of time chugging around the French coast delivering fresh baguettes to the bunkers!   I've gotten some more assembly done on it- it's a right finicky little b@stard!  I shot a flat coat on the kubel while working on the Ju388 as well.   More this weekend!

 

Cheers!

chuk

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lafayette la
Posted by 40.mm on Friday, July 8, 2011 11:57 AM

Goody Goody cant wait!

 

 

                                                       The Original MOJO Outcast !

http://www.vairhead.net/forum/dhg.jpg

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Friday, July 8, 2011 12:17 PM

Ditto  Missing your cartoon girl too... Embarrassed

Andy

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Boston MA
Posted by vespa boy on Friday, July 8, 2011 5:24 PM

Chuck, Thanks for sharing this build in every detail and from several narrative perspectives. The amount of research and detail is impressive. Its also great that you are sharing failures as well as successes...it helps all of us learn.

http://public.fotki.com/nkhandekar

This ain't no Mudd Club, or C.B.G.B.,
I ain't got time for that now

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Memphis TN
Posted by Heavens Eagle on Friday, July 8, 2011 7:53 PM

I just picked up that motorcycle kit last weekend.  It is a sweet "little" kit. Your photos are so well done that they make the subjects look a lot larger than they really are.  (even with Pfennig hanging around) Clown

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