Very Large Street Dio WIP

major nuisance wrote:

the doog wrote:  PS--as an avid contest participant here in the USA, I can't think of one that I've attended which hasn't used a version of the IPMS rules?  The Doog, rather interested in this as here in dear old NZ even IPMS as a national less body cannot agree on rules etc. etc.  Most IPMS branch shows are based on IPMS USA rules and guidelines but some are a bit left field, or was that right field.  This years [2008] IPMS nationals rules have caused a few to gnash their teeth. Nough said. Must away and play with a bit of plastic, sniff a bit of glue and various other solvents, destroy a few more brain cells [not many left now] and continue with a diorama or was that, take the dog for a walk.   Now where did I leave the dog?

Being that Tigertankman is a resident of California, I am admittedly assuming that any contest he might enter would fall under these generalized guidelines. I'm not talking about splitting hairs here, nor do I know one whit about what transpires in New Zealand (?). I know that England has some different rules/bylines for contests. I'm simply trying to convey some information to the lad which might help him to make a decision to enter a contest in the future more easy, and hopefully, witha more satisfying resolution.

I humbly offer that I'm not sure why this seems to have hit a nerve with you or anyone else here? It is not a criticism. It is simply the sharing of knowledge and experience, and it is not a "hijacking" of the thread. Topics diverge here all the time, and the topic of what constitutes a "diorama" as opposed to a "display" would be an important one to know for a younger modeler who may not have the benefit of that experience.

Anyway, I've said enough about it; at this point I'm just trying to assuage the misunderstanding of my intent by you and some of the other members here, becasue I certainly don't want to introduce any tension to the forums, especially with a new member.

Hope you take the olive branch............

the doog wrote:

PS--as an avid contest participant here in the USA, I can't think of one that I've attended which hasn't used a version of the IPMS rules?

The Doog, rather interested in this as here in dear old NZ even IPMS as a national less body cannot agree on rules etc. etc.  Most IPMS branch shows are based on IPMS USA rules and guidelines but some are a bit left field, or was that right field.  This years [2008] IPMS nationals rules have caused a few to gnash their teeth. Nough said.

Must away and play with a bit of plastic, sniff a bit of glue and various other solvents, destroy a few more brain cells [not many left now] and continue with a diorama or was that, take the dog for a walk.   Now where did I leave the dog?

Major Nuisance, no problem, I understand your points, and to be honest, like I said, if Tigertankman wants to build a "dio" like this, who the heck are we to say anything disparaging about it? With all due and sincere respect, I just think you've misinterpreted the reasons for the posts that I and some others have made.

I was just honestly putting myself in his shoes, and thinking, "Hmm...the idea will come out great, and I'l' want to show it off to people."

The logical place to do that would be a local hobby contest. And I only tried to help out from a base of knowledge with which I have some experience. I just wouldn't want to see the scenario happen which I related, because it could sour a person's impreesion and willingness to participate in shows. contests, etc.

I truly believe that model shows and contests foster and promote our hobby. There's nothing like going to a show and feeling the inspiration from a fabulous build, and then going out and getting that kit and giving it a whirl yourself. A lot of young builders start here. I always see Dads picking up kits with their kids.

But a bad experience with what you feel to be poor or biased judging--without understanding the standards and rules of the contest and the framework in which it exsts---can really put a damper on the enthusiasm. I was just trying to be helpful, not condescending.

PS--as an avid contest participant here in the USA, I can't think of one that I've attended which hasn't used a version of the IPMS rules? 

Sorry , I thought this thread was started by Tigertankman in regards to his display idea which I think is great. My apologies.

Re IPMS I would not know the US scene however here in NZ I attended a model expo thingy in Waitakere [which is part of Auckland] recently which had quite a number of model club displays, vendors etc which the IPMS was only a part - one table.  Where I live there are two groups of enthusiasts, both with strong membership covering all areas of modelling/collecting, who are not part of the IPMS and do things differently.  All have the facility for thematic collections/displays and often display themes e.g. Monte Casino/Pacific Air War/Maori Battalion/Vietnam The TET/same model out of the box etc. etc.  The public seem to enjoy themes and of course it gives, me the modeller, something to aim at and I can compare and contrast my efforts.

Looking at Tigertankman's display idea, it would not look out of place here, in fact it would probably add interest for the public.

Tigertankman, if you used your imagination or idea you may be able to stretch the modular concept further to incorporate other settings - e.g. town centre, countryside, river etc using the ideas that wargamers and model railroaders use to mount them together.  One modeller in Dunedin, South Island, New Zealand, used about four modules to display a street scene.  All modules could be displayed independent of each other and were stored on shelves.  Okay when mounted together there was this seam/join line that he could hide by a bit of ground cover. More the pity I had shots of the modules on disk but cannot seem to find them.  Oh well! as they say, back to the drawing board.

All-in-all agreat idea Tigertankman , well done. 

major nuisance wrote:

And to all of you who quote IPMS standards, there are more modelling groups out there besides IPMS who work and display to a different standard so as they say "Get over it".

Nothing like making a positive "first impression"...

major nuisance wrote:

And to all of you who quote IPMS standards, there are more modelling groups out there besides IPMS who work and display to a different standard so as they say "Get over it".

, Major

Panzerguy was asking specifically about shows he and I have attended which are run by IPMS clubs and have collections categories. As I mentioned, I'm quite experienced in putting together successful collections at those shows. AFIK, AMPS, the only other organization around here, does not have a collections category, and certainly not in the show they sponsor in the New England/New York area. There are no independent contests in our area at this time. If you understand better what the judges are looking at, you stand a better chance of doing well. My goal was to help him present a stronger display so he could do better. Hey, I'm helping my "competition" chase me.
 

Tigertankman

I have followed this thread with some interest as it gave me a case of wobbly knee syndrome

At age 17 I was in the army [NZ] after doing similar dios with much the same reaction.  Gotta say, great display idea, watch out for warpage of the base.  Model railway ideas of modular construction and walla, you can add hedges, ditches etc.  A great British modeller Roy Dilley used to use a similar system to photograph and display models and he had a bucket fill of them. As you have clearly stated, you are doing it for yourself, for your enjoyment etc.

And to all of you who quote IPMS standards, there are more modelling groups out there besides IPMS who work and display to a different standard so as they say "Get over it".

By the way Tigertankman I went on to serve in Vietnam and a few other hot spots so welcome to the "real stuff" when you join up and most of all enjoy. 

Tigertankman wrote:

EDIT: In response to the whole collection conversation, I have thought, what about a collection of german vehicles used at the battle of Kursk. Personally I like this battle because this is where the Tiger gained most of its infamy. But what if I were to specifically build one of every vehicle used in Kursk from the start to the end, excluding command vehicles and very very odd vehicles such as captured vehicles or vehicles that were only produced once or twice. I think that would fare pretty well. -Alex

(At the risk of being called a highjacker again!) Yeah, that would be a better collection theme, especially if you can identify the units represented.

Hey guys,

I'll have the sidewalks started very soon. I've been thinking lately, what would you guys think if I added all modern vehicles to this base as a display of US Troops on patrol in Iraq? I'm almost 17, and I'm a senior in high school this year, and all I've ever wanted to do is join the military, which will be very soon. So I thought I might do something modern that has to do with what I might or might not be involved in. Thoughts?

Besides that, If you have anything that would help me make this base/dio thingy look better, please feel free to tell me. Like I said the sidewalks will be on there very soon, but a road and sidewalks seems bland, if anyone can think of a spot on there to add some sand, or dirt or a fence or something....

EDIT: In response to the whole collection conversation, I have thought, what about a collection of german vehicles used at the battle of Kursk. Personally I like this battle because this is where the Tiger gained most of its infamy. But what if I were to specifically build one of every vehicle used in Kursk from the start to the end, excluding command vehicles and very very odd vehicles such as captured vehicles or vehicles that were only produced once or twice. I think that would fare pretty well.

Also, the vehicle you believe to be a Dicker Max is known as the Sturer Emil, It was a 128mm Self Propelled Tank Destroyer. There were only two produced. Basically, they took the original Tiger 1 prototype chassis, and converted them to these vehicles. One was captured by the russians in 1943, the other has never been found but was extensively photographed, and was known to have had 22 combat kills.

More here: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/heu.htm#128

-Alex

Ok guys, a favor, please.

This is a WIP about our friend here's build of his base.  This thread was successfully hijacked by you guys, can ya take this discussion to a topic just for it or something.  I want to see this WIP more.

Due respect accepted.

The kits would be a collection, but would likely not fare well because the theme is very weak...a PzIV, a Tiger, a King Tiger, a Dicker Max(?) and an SdKfz 251. The theme would only be some German WWII vehicles. A Pz I , PZ II, Pz III, Pz IV, Tiger and King Tiger would make a good collection, showing the progression of German tanks through the war.  It would be like me putting an Geronimo, Sitting Bull, a Mohawk and Uncas (Mohegan) as a collection. Yes, 4 Indian tribes, but separated by time and geography. Now, using Sitting Bull, Crazy Horse, and one or more Sioux or other northern plains figures would be a much better collection. Better yet would be five Woodland Inidian figures representing the 5 tribes of the Iroquois Confederacy as differentiated by their feather patterns during the French and Indian War period.

From the IPMS competition handbook: "COLLECTIONS (Category 840). A collection is any group of five or more closely related items. ... The entire collection must be the work of one person. The closeness of the relationship within the collection is a significant factor in judging. For example, a collection based on variants of a single airframe is a tighter relationship than one of different aircraft operated by a unit."

ajlafleche wrote:

panzerguy wrote:    IMO if T-Man were to bring this to a show this would fall into the 'Collection'  catagory. And from what I can see would stand up pretty well. As one who competes and does well in collections, the models displayed would not do well as a collection due to its very weak theme or relationship among the models. For example. I've brought in 12-13 M151 variants in different camo schemes and different configurations to show a progression of the vehicle. The same with about half a dozen US Army M113's or 4-5 Panzer IV variants with shurtzen. I've displayed 5-6 Pegaso gladiators, vikings from various companies, Plains Indians, Woodland Indians, a couple dozen Texans from the Civil War, a grouping of mountain men, and other collections. They did well for several reasons, a good display set up, at least for the figures, decent builds and tightly related subjects that tell the viewer something. Collections that boil down to these are the kits I built this year, even if they are well done, won't place as well as a tightly themed collection of decent builds.

   Al with all due respect but at one of your clubs own shows all my dio entries were judged as a collection and not individualy even though they were not related to one another. And since these will all be displayed together why wouldnt it be a 'collection'?

panzerguy wrote:

IMO if T-Man were to bring this to a show this would fall into the 'Collection'  catagory. And from what I can see would stand up pretty well.

As one who competes and does well in collections, the models displayed would not do well as a collection due to its very weak theme or relationship among the models. For example. I've brought in 12-13 M151 variants in different camo schemes and different configurations to show a progression of the vehicle. The same with about half a dozen US Army M113's or 4-5 Panzer IV variants with shurtzen. I've displayed 5-6 Pegaso gladiators, vikings from various companies, Plains Indians, Woodland Indians, a couple dozen Texans from the Civil War, a grouping of mountain men, and other collections. They did well for several reasons, a good display set up, at least for the figures, decent builds and tightly related subjects that tell the viewer something. Collections that boil down to these are the kits I built this year, even if they are well done, won't place as well as a tightly themed collection of decent builds.

the doog wrote:

Sherman_Modeler wrote:  the doog wrote:  Sherman_Modeler wrote: As you stated in your orginal post, and the others failed to read, this will be a base used to display your models, I think they read into that thinking this was some sort of diorama, oh well I think they're inputs were well intended, but overlooked your intentions. Well, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the title of the post is "Very Large Street DIO WIP".................. Not trying to be argumentative, but in his post body he says it will be used as a display for various types of models......... Not trying to be argumentative, but that's why I went through the trouble to give a general definition of what is considered a "diorama". A display is not a "diorama" under IPMS rules; a "dio: tells a story, and is not merely a display.  This would be important to know if you took this big display to a show, and came home p*ssed off because your big "dio" with all these cool models that you'd put so much time into lost to a smaller, 1-vehicle true diorama with a great "storyline". I've seen it happen, and seen guys lose their cool over it and stomp out, vowing never to return, that the judges were parrtisan, etc.....not a pretty sight. The distinction is important. In any case, I'm surely not arguing about his choice of what he wants to build--I have no doog in that fight whatsoever. Build what ya want, Tigertankman! Be happy! That's what modeling's supposed to be!

   IMO if T-Man were to bring this to a show this would fall into the 'Collection'  catagory. And from what I can see would stand up pretty well.

    As far as those that have a fit when thier entry is not recognized by the the judges and I've seen my share also,they get no respect from me. If they were to just ask "Could you tell me why my entry did not make the cut?" calmly and respectfuly to the people who did the judging I'm sure they would be more than willing to discuss it with them. Case in point: I entered a dio in a show that I thought would at least place. When it didnt I ask two of the judges If they could tell me why and what should I do to improve on it. I listened to their advice and suggestion's and after making the corrections took it to another show were it took a first place and a peoples choice . 

Yea large is good.  Speaking of large Once I start getting some good income I had an idea for a very large, very expensive, and very time consuming project.  Get some of those base squares, specificly ones that can line up, like the verlinden ones, for 1/35 and some damaged buildings (about... 64 squares and however many needed buildings).  Build them all into one giant city scape.  Then get a good 32 kits and make a massive chess set.

Allies and Axis

pawn=infintry, rook=artillery, bishop=MG, knight=mortar, queen=tank, king=commander

Sherman_Modeler wrote:

the doog wrote:  Sherman_Modeler wrote: As you stated in your orginal post, and the others failed to read, this will be a base used to display your models, I think they read into that thinking this was some sort of diorama, oh well I think they're inputs were well intended, but overlooked your intentions. Well, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the title of the post is "Very Large Street DIO WIP".................. Not trying to be argumentative, but in his post body he says it will be used as a display for various types of models.........

The distinction is important. In any case, I'm surely not arguing about his choice of what he wants to build--I have no doog in that fight whatsoever. Build what ya want, Tigertankman! Be happy! That's what modeling's supposed to be!

the doog wrote:

Sherman_Modeler wrote: As you stated in your orginal post, and the others failed to read, this will be a base used to display your models, I think they read into that thinking this was some sort of diorama, oh well I think they're inputs were well intended, but overlooked your intentions. Well, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but the title of the post is "Very Large Street DIO WIP"..................

Not trying to be argumentative, but in his post body he says it will be used as a display for various types of models.........

Yea looking at your base, it would be hard, size wise and displayability wise to make it on an angle.  Now, it can be telling a story, if your only displaying Axis tanks on it, just put axis soldiers marching with it, and Viola, you have a parade ground in berlin (before they started getting their butts whipped) make it hittler's birthday parade or soemthing

Theres nothing wrong with it being a base for your kits though.

Smeagol I understand where your coming from, but since I could only bring home 1 piece of wood, I wanted to make use of the most area I possibly could. At any rate, I guess I did not truly understand the definition of a diorama, but whatever, its still a scene representing a street where I can put my models, which to me is just as good!

-Alex

Well, ultimatly its his build, and he can do what he wants with it.  Way to many times I have, myself, gotten extremly peeved at people to the point of profanity when they try and force their own design ideas on my builds.

But there is one thing I have learned, Dios or bases, or Vinyettes or whatever you want to call it, dont look quite... right when everything is parallel, having it on a slight angle makes it look alot better

Sherman_Modeler wrote:

As you stated in your orginal post, and the others failed to read, this will be a base used to display your models, I think they read into that thinking this was some sort of diorama, oh well I think they're inputs were well intended, but overlooked your intentions.

...............

Tigertankman wrote:

Panzerguy and everyone thanks for the tips. Bah, I could really care less about accuracy, I just thought it would be really cool to build a large display base that would be very very versatile. Meaning not only could I put lots of vehicles on it, but do other things such as set up fortifications, barricades, etc. Also, thanks for the compliments on the road itself.

I remember your original post from a couple weeks ago about this subject, wanting a multi-purpose quasi-realistic display base for your work... Looks like you hit the nail on head, pard... Adding figures was a good idea to show the scale

Heckuvan idea... Think I'm gonna rip you off for the tracks & trucks I don't plan on puttin' into dios.... In fact, all my shelving may be undergoing some "terra-forming" in the very near future... Kinda reminds me of my model railroading days where the "world" needs to come into being before "life"... Think I might add some building facades to the back of the shelving as well...

Now, to build a "flight deck" for all those "blue airplanes" I've got...

As you stated in your orginal post, and the others failed to read, this will be a base used to display your models, I think they read into that thinking this was some sort of diorama, oh well I think they're inputs were well intended, but overlooked your intentions.

I think it's a great idea, the only problem I for see is keeping the dust off the grainy surfaces.  I commend you for a unique idea!