1/48 B-17 Group Build...ALL INVITED TO JOIN!

FeldMarSchall Model wrote:

Nice looking B-17 modelchasm, I did some test fitting of the wings yesterday.

Thanks FeldMarSchall ... Looks like yours is coming along as well.

I did a little more work w/ mine the other night. Just opened up all the vents and openings in the wings. For the intakes in the leading edges of the wings, I opened them up and a "screen" material so it wouldn't be just an open hole.

Other than that .... its still slow going ...

OK! First time post (and first time group build, obviously) so be gentle

 Bought the Revell 1/48 B-17G last week and just got going.  Here are some pics of progress so far. Comments/suggestions welcome

and...

Thanks guys!! 

First off to the forms RaySBye, your off to a great start on your Fort!!

Last week I went to the USAF Museum at Dayton Ohio, I tryed to take as many pictures of there Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby.

When I was Gurnee Illinois(Back in July of 2006), we were stopped in traffic, and I look and see a B-17 flying over head.

And heres a picture of Shoo Shoo Shoo Baby in the air.

modelchasm...Damn dude! Your fort look's great so far, l'm looking forward to more pics. The detailing look's outstanding, the landing gear, cowl flaps etc....The only critique I can offer is the bullet/cannon holes on the nose, they are way to close together, only a tommy gun at close range would do that. I love the shattered pilots windscreen though, it look's really convincing. The battle damage on the tail is great, the wheel wells and exhaust are also great. The heat shield, or whatever that is on the exhaust is sweet too, that's something I dont think I've seen another modeler do before. And please tell me, where did you get the crew figures, I must know.

FM, thanks for the pics bye the way, any idea the story behind the vertical B-17 stab in the pics? It's a shame, I've lived in ohio for 8 years now and have not been down there once yet. Talked about it a few times, just havent got off my doopa yet. I believe the 17 you saw flying around by you is texas raiders, I could be wrong though but she's the only one carrying 91st BG markings.

EDIT: Sorry FM, that's not texas raiders, she carries 381st BG markings, (triangle L). Your pics look to me to be 91st BG markings, I'm not sure what ship that is...but I'll find out. 909 perhaps?

Tiny!!! Where the hell have you been hiding, I was beginning to give you up for lost. Summer keeping you away from the bench too?

B-17 Guy wrote:

modelchasm...Damn dude! Your fort look's great so far, l'm looking forward to more pics. The detailing look's outstanding, the landing gear, cowl flaps etc....The only critique I can offer is the bullet/cannon holes on the nose, they are way to close together, only a tommy gun at close range would do that. I love the shattered pilots windscreen though, it look's really convincing. The battle damage on the tail is great, the wheel wells and exhaust are also great. The heat shield, or whatever that is on the exhaust is sweet too, that's something I dont think I've seen another modeler do before. And please tell me, where did you get the crew figures, I must know.

Thanks, "17". I think that you're right on w/ the thought on the bullet holes. You'll notice that I've already puttied a couple in. I planned to putty more, just haven't gotten around to it. I'm glad that you like everything else. All of the figures are actually from the kit. Most have just been heavily modded. The O2 masks are all putty and wire. I was very dissappointed in how much you COULDN'T see once it was closed up, but I guess that leaves something for viewers to search for.

I did actually find more original pictures from when I started the build. Nothing new that you haven't see before ... maybe just more angles.

The ball turret ...

Inside the bomb bay ...

Inside the nose and cockpit areas ...

Inside the Radio Room ....

... and inside the waist ...

Again, this isn't anything new progress, just more pics I was able to find on the computer. Digging through these really makes me want to jump on this one again .... but patience grasshoppa .... patience.

Wow! I can identify the radio operator as the guy who had one hand on his hip and the other pointing up. But damn, I cant believe the rest of those guy's! You did outstanding work on those figures, I suck at figures.

Now that I go back and look I can see putty in some of the bullet holes. I cant wait to see more progress on this.

I havent made much progress on my forts, I'm actually going backwards right now. I decided I didnt like the decals on the F model, they are wrong so I'm trying to fix em. I removed the VK sqrdn codes and will be replacing them with PU which is the correct code, and adding the "Thumper" nose art. Plus I got a bit carried away with weathering as well, so I'm gonna fix that up a bit. Heres a few more recent pics.

IMO ... PE is a great way to go. However, I tend to go about 50/ 50 w/ scratching. A lot of the PE detail would be great for a visable build.

In the future, I'm planning on doing another 17 in a cutaway view. IMO I think that the visble clear side would still block too much detail. I'm gonna go for gold w/ the cutaway. Ribbing, engines, E-VER-Y-THING.... Right now, I don't even have a 2nd kit yet, but I'm planning on putting aside the better part of a year for it.

WOW.  These look great.  I have got to get back to work on my Fort........

Cheers

Yeah your making some good progress over there, well while looking for more yellow zinc chromate, and airbrush thinner, I found a Revell B-17G in 1/72.

MM75...Absolutely feel free to join in if you want to, there have a few who asked to join but never came back, hopefully you stick around. This GB is never ending, there is no time limit and no scale restrictions, build what you want so long as it is a B-17. Every B-17 variant is welcome, from the model 299 all the way to...well..whenever.

I'm not that big on PE, it's great, dont get me wrong, I just would need alotof it for my 17's. After these 2 are done, I've got 4 more to build. 1 will be another G to F conversion, nothing fancy there though, just a nose swap from revell F kit. Another will be a revell F kit converted to B-17D from the koster vac-form kit. Then I have a regular mono G kit that will have the tail converted to cheyenne tail and be marked up as "Sentimental Journey", and the last one is the old pro-modeler kit which will be done up as "Fuddy Duddy".

ROB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where have you been!!!???? I hope your feeling better and getting ready to get your 17 going again. Havent seen you in a while, all is well I hope?! 

B-17 Guy wrote:

After these 2 are done, I've got 4 more to build. 1 will be another G to F conversion, nothing fancy there though, just a nose swap from revell F kit. Another will be a revell F kit converted to B-17D from the koster vac-form kit. Then I have a regular mono G kit that will have the tail converted to cheyenne tail and be marked up as "Sentimental Journey", and the last one is the old pro-modeler kit which will be done up as "Fuddy Duddy".

GOOD LORD!!! 4 more after these 2!?! You're like a B-17 maniac building .... B ... 17 .... Guy!?! ... (Shut up Richard!)

That Sentimental Journey will look nice. I'm not even going to ask b/c I know its going to be all NMF .... what are planning to use for that? Bare Metal Foil?

BTW, as to your previous post .... From what I can see, I don't think that you over weathered anything on your current ships. And if removing the decals is too big a pain, take the oppurtunity to make it look like it's SQDN codes have been re-painted in the field. Just mask everything off, spray the old codes w/ OD until they are just barely visable, and then add the new codes on. I think that would make add some interest to a long, uninteresting area of the body.

Just my 2 cents....

Soooooooo .... here's a question that I've got for my 17.

After researching and researching, I couldn't find very much information in the particular ship I wanted to do. So, I started w/ what I had. Fast-forward to now ..... The ship is all closed up and I've just read a blurb about my 17 in a book I picked up. I just learned that "Tail Crazy" had the staggered wasit gunner's windows......

$*^%*&**^$*^)^^%$^%$#$$@$#(*_)(!!!!!! ...

Is there anyway/ surgery that I can do to move one of the windows over w/o making a complete mess of everything? I wanted this build to be as accurate as possible since its a ribute piece to my grandfather. However, I will probably be the only on to know of this oops mistake when others are looking at it.

Any advice?

B-17 Guy wrote:

ROB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where have you been!!!???? I hope your feeling better and getting ready to get your 17 going again. Havent seen you in a while, all is well I hope?!

I've been around a little bit.  My surgery was last Thursday and I'm recovering well.  Pain in my side is just about gone, so I just need to recover from incision in my back and butt.  I might get down to the shop today (slowly).  These posts are getting me back in the mood to start cutting the holes in the Fort.  That F-18 on the cover of the magazine is what I'm trying to do.......

Cheers

FeldMarSchall Model wrote:

Yeah your making some good progress over there, well while looking for more yellow zinc chromate, and airbrush thinner, I found a Revell B-17G in 1/72.

Excuse me, but wouldn't that be a B-17F, formerally released as the Memphis Belle?

Tom T

Lancair IV wrote:

That F-18 on the cover of the magazine is what I'm trying to do.......

Rob .... glad to hear that you're doing well. Can't wait to see some pics from your cutaway. As mentioned above, I'm planning on doing a cutaway myself in the future.

Lancair IV wrote:

I do have a question......Has anyone relocated the waist gunners position to be offset like the G model?  Or did the early G's have symetrical positions?????? Thanks

Lancer

I have both the of the Academy 1/72 B-17E and F models and they both give the builder the option to stagger the waist gunner positions.

B-17 Guy wrote:

I'm not that big on PE, it's great, dont get me wrong, I just would need alotof it for my 17's. After these 2 are done, I've got 4 more to build. 1 will be another G to F conversion, nothing fancy there though, just a nose swap from revell F kit. Another will be a revell F kit converted to B-17D from the koster vac-form kit. Then I have a regular mono G kit that will have the tail converted to cheyenne tail and be marked up as "Sentimental Journey", and the last one is the old pro-modeler kit which will be done up as "Fuddy Duddy".

B-17 Guy

I hope you plan to post the builds for all these B-17s

Modelchasm.......Yup! I do like the 17. 4 more of those in the stash, plus a B-24J (hope to add a D model as well to do strawberry female dog), B-29, C-47, tamiya lancaster and a B-25, at least for bombers. Not sure how I'm gonna do Sentimental and Fuddy yet, I'd like to build those 2 in tandem so I doubt I'll use foil as I havent had any kinda good luck with that yet. I might try to spray them with rattle can, krylon original chrome. I've had decent results with it and seeing as how these will be combat a/c, not show birds, I might be able to get away with it.

The old sqd codes came off last night, I repainted a bit in the general area where they go as well as most of the nose. Re-decaled with the correct codes so now she reads PU-F, she's thumper from the 303rd BG, at least a loose version any way, all her markings are correct at least. I'll get some new pics up soon.

Do you have info on the 17 you want to do? Serial#, BG etc...? I can see what I can find.

Rob....I'm damn glad to hear all is well and you recovering well. No rush on getting back to the bench, when your ready have at it, but relax in the mean time.

17 guy - I may be wrong ... it happens more often than not ... but isn't Sen. Journey a "made-up" A/C? I thought that it was a made-up name using after rebuilding the current ship, basically rebuilt to tour the country.

Rattle-can chrome .... Hmm, never tried that one. Would like to see some pictures of the finishes. I've not had a successful completion of a NMF anything, but using styrene scraps I love Alclad and and BMF. I was never a believer in the whole "fine paint particle" discussion until I tried it.

As far as the bird I'm doing .... Her name is Tail Crazy and she flew with the 2nd BG out of Foggia, Italy. I'd say that she mostly flew with the 49th Bomb SQDN, but I have evidence that she also flew w/ the 429th as well. Her tail number is 238-087. She was one of only a few birds that was equipped w/ the 20mm cannon in the tail. The two pictures that I have been able to find of her confirm a few facts about her; 1) she was painted two-tone OD w/ grey bottom. Its had to tell from the pictures I have, but it looks like the cowlings and the spinner hubs were painted white. (I'll see if I can't work up a Photoshopped color rendering of what she looked like and post it here.) 2) She was a G model. 3) She still had the old model tail (before the cheyenne). I have a list of all the missions that she flew, to include the date, the original target, and pilot. Though if I REALLY tried, I could probably piece together the crews for each mission. Tail Crazy would fly 88 missions, completing her final mission in NOV '44. She wold fly back to the States in DEC '45 and unfortunatly, would be scrapped in JUN '46.

Just on an off chance ... if anyone knows/ knows of the original pilot, William "Bill" D. Tatler, I would really like to talk to him or his family. I have been trying to track down more of the original crew, as I have a feel thats where more information/ photos could be found.  

but isn't Sen. Journey a "made-up" A/C? I thought that it was a made-up name using after rebuilding the current ship, basically rebuilt to tour the country.

Both CAF B-17's (Sentinental Journey and Texas Raiders) are "made-up" aircraft... The markings are authentic, in that they represent actual 8th AF markings, but the nose-art and serials are spurious.  The CAF obtained special permission from Betty Grable's ex-husband, Harry James, to use her likeness on Sentimental Journey, since Betty had passed away before the aircraft was restored to its current theme...

Hans von Hammer wrote:

but isn't Sen. Journey a "made-up" A/C? I thought that it was a made-up name using after rebuilding the current ship, basically rebuilt to tour the country. Both CAF B-17's (Sentinental Journey and Texas Raiders) are "made-up" aircraft... The markings are authentic, in that they represent actual 8th AF markings, but the nose-art and serials are spurious.  The CAF obtained special permission from Betty Grable's ex-husband, Harry James, to use her likeness on Sentimental Journey, since Betty had passed away before the aircraft was restored to its current theme...

So, did the original A/C not have a name or nose art? Seems that restoring an A/C to oringinal markings etc w/o the original name and nose art sounds a little funny. But, then again ... I'm not the owner!

Hans von Hammer wrote:

Both CAF B-17's (Sentinental Journey and Texas Raiders) are "made-up" aircraft... The markings are authentic, in that they represent actual 8th AF markings, but the nose-art and serials are spurious.  The CAF obtained special permission from Betty Grable's ex-husband, Harry James, to use her likeness on Sentimental Journey, since Betty had passed away before the aircraft was restored to its current theme...

I know this is a bit off topic but there was/ is a B-29 called Sentimental Journey.

modelchasm wrote:

Hans von Hammer wrote: but isn't Sen. Journey a "made-up" A/C? I thought that it was a made-up name using after rebuilding the current ship, basically rebuilt to tour the country. Both CAF B-17's (Sentinental Journey and Texas Raiders) are "made-up" aircraft... The markings are authentic, in that they represent actual 8th AF markings, but the nose-art and serials are spurious.  The CAF obtained special permission from Betty Grable's ex-husband, Harry James, to use her likeness on Sentimental Journey, since Betty had passed away before the aircraft was restored to its current theme... So, did the original A/C not have a name or nose art? Seems that restoring an A/C to oringinal markings etc w/o the original name and nose art sounds a little funny. But, then again ... I'm not the owner!

No, no nose art or name... That happens when a plane goes to a squadron and a crew is assigned to the aircraft...

 For instance, since I've flown in Texas Raiders several times (even got some right-seat time) and my cousin is the coordinator for her (and one of the pilots), I'll talk about her for a bit...

 Texas Raiders went out the factory door after V-E Day, in July of '45.  It was a Douglas-built B-17G (USAAF B-17G-95-DL-44-83872) and went to the U.S. Navy (as a PB-1W in 1947, BuNo 77235) after the Army decided it wasn't going to need any more Forts.  She flew with several Navy squadrons from 1947 (VX-4, VW-2, & VW-1) until she was stricken from the records in 1956.  So, although she never saw service with the Army, while with VW-1 she flew combat weather patrols out of Japan during the Korean War... The Navy was always pretty anal about nose art and names, so she never got either... She flew her last military sortie from Japan to NAS Litchfield Park, AZ, and was placed in Flyable Storage with about 3200 hours on her clock...

She was saved from the torch by the Aero Service Corporation who bought her for about 17 grand and used her for aerial surveying until she was sold to the CAF in 1967 for $50,000... It was decided that she would not be restored to represent any particular Army B-17G, although she did, for a time, carry the codes and s/n of an 8th AF 1st Bomb Wing, 305th BG (Heavy), 366th BS B-17F (Triangle "G", KY-D) commanded by Lt. Verl Fisher.   

There's other details about her, but I don't wanna turn this into a history lesson on the CAF anf the Ghost Squadron, lol...  But you get the idea... Texas Raiders is currently undergoing a massive restoration/refurbishing and should be flying again late this year or early next...

I think there's only one or two flying B-17s that actually flew combat missions in WW2, and none are in the States... IIRC, one of the movie Memphis Belle Forts was a WW2 combat veteran that's a French-owned B-17G, but it seems to me that I heard or read she had crashed and was destroyed a few years ago (but don't quote me on that)...

Hans I read an article around the first of the year about the French B-17 crashing on landing and being destroyed. Althou as I remember the damage wasnt really all that bad, but to repair it would have been quite an undertaking because it needed a lot of work done before the crash. I will have to see if I can find that article again.

modelchasm wrote:

That's a damn shame .... one day the days of flying will be gone ....

Given the number of "Cottage Industries" dedicated to making repair/replacement parts for the Warbirds, I doubt that will ever happen...  If you got the bucks, you could keep 'em flying forever, barring crashes that totally destroy the airframe (and the FAA)... As with everything in this type venture, it's always going to be money that drives the Warbird market... Especially if you keep in mind that today it costs more per hour to fly a single B-17 on the Airshow Circuit as it did to keep a squadron of Forts operational in 1945...

As my CAF unit motto says: "If you don't pitch in your part, and I don't pitch in my part, the aircraft won't have a part to pitch in..."