Dr. Strangelove B-52

Rudi35 wrote:

Sorry about doing this, but as some people are Rivet Nazis I'm the same with movie lines :)

HawkeyeHobbies wrote:

It was the shockwave of the explosion that would destroy or seriously damage the approaching bombers. This strategy was also used by our communist foes, hence one reason we went from high altitude large formation strikes to low knap of the earth single ship. The odds increased dramatically, or so it was thought. Our ability to jamb enemy radar with Genie missiles helped ensure more bombers from being intercepted. We tend to forget that what technology doesn't see the Mk I eyeball and ears could detect...the human on the ground observer could relay info to help assets intercept the bombers. The British were very effective at doing this in WWII during the B of B.  In the Clint Eastwood flick where he stole a Mig, he was detected by listening posts along the mountains as he left a supersonic noise footprint. Spotters here in the US during WWII would listen to aircraft at night and report type and direction, of flight. Most "listeners" could recognized the type of aircraft by its engine noise.

But at the same time, I do not think that the radiation exposure factor can be ignored as part of our psychological warfare efforts.

Remember that when Strangelove (Sellers) said regarding the Russian "Doomsday Device", "It isn't very effective [as a deterrent] if you don't tell anyone about it" he captured the essence of the Cold War philosophy.

Due to the basic strategy, 99% of our cold war weapons were based on a concept of bluffing the other guy from using his first. This way we could "lever" the other guy internationally and/or undermine the morale of his fighting men.

A lot of stuff was deliberately "leaked" through double agents in order to disinform, intimidate, demoralize and disrupt the Soviets' military.

This is called psychological warfare.

That was what the Hanson spy scandal case was all about.

For his role as  CIA informant to the Russians regarding the key elements of the U.S. Governments' spy networks, he compromised complete departments of the CIA and others, which included his getting key Russian Soviet double-agents we were using recalled to Moscow where they were summarily executed, he now sits in a cell for solitary confinement for the rest of his life, allowing to see someone only once a year.

He nearly got the death penality for High Treason.

Tom T

Rudi35 wrote:

That's an interesting tidbit about La Puta. I always thought the named sounded rather odd.

FYI, "La Puta" is Spanish for "The Prostitute".

It is often used in a derrogative sense between Spanish speaking men.

Tom T

It was the shockwave of the explosion that would destroy or seriously damage the approaching bombers. This strategy was also used by our communist foes, hence one reason we went from high altitude large formation strikes to low knap of the earth single ship. The odds increased dramatically, or so it was thought.

Our ability to jamb enemy radar with Genie missiles helped ensure more bombers from being intercepted. We tend to forget that what technology doesn't see the Mk I eyeball and ears could detect...the human on the ground observer could relay info to help assets intercept the bombers. The British were very effective at doing this in WWII during the B of B. 

In the Clint Eastwood flick where he stole a Mig, he was detected by listening posts along the mountains as he left a supersonic noise footprint.

Spotters here in the US during WWII would listen to aircraft at night and report type and direction, of flight. Most "listeners" could recognized the type of aircraft by its engine noise.

Rudi35 wrote:

T_Terrific wrote:  Rudi35 wrote: ------------------------------- One thing I noticed about Kubrick's movies in general is that they all lack a love story (only ‘lust' stories).  I find this refreshing and I think it adds to the surrealistic qualities of his movies. You're not referring to George Scott's portrayal of General "Bucky Turgid" are you ("Keep the motor running, I'll be right back")? Tom T Yup! That's definitely a good example The final version of that line in the movie was: "I know how it is, baby. Tell you what you do. You just start your countdown, and old Bucky'll be back here before you can say... Blast Off!" -------

You're right, of course.

I believe I must have swapped Scott's line for a line from a Bob Hope movie.

Tom T

bondoman wrote:

rabbiteatsnake wrote:  bondoman wrote:       Sellars was to play Kong, even learned a Texas accent, until he broke his leg, which is why Dr. S is in a chair. The production sent a letter to John Wayne requesting he play Major Kong. They never heard back. Second choice was Dan Blocker, but couldn't reach terms. I think ole Slim was just the right guy. There's a rumor that when Kong completes the inventory of the survival kit and says "Fella could have a nice time in Vegas with this" he said "Dallas" but it was overdubbed in final production. (The movie came out in December 1963.) If you look close you can see that Slim indeed says Dallas.  As for my favorite line, its when Sellers says to Keenan Wynn "Well  colonel Bat Gauno, if that is your real name---". Oh yeah! And Wynn: "if you're not right about this you're gonna be in a lot of trouble with the Coca Cola Company".

Sorry about doing this, but as some people are Rivet Nazis I'm the same with movie lines :)

Guano:

Ok. I'm gonna get your money for you. But if you don't get the President of the Unites States on that phone, you know what's going to happen to you?

Mandrake:

What?

Guano:

You're going to have to answer to the Coca-Cola Company.

rabbiteatsnake wrote:

bondoman wrote:       Sellars was to play Kong, even learned a Texas accent, until he broke his leg, which is why Dr. S is in a chair. The production sent a letter to John Wayne requesting he play Major Kong. They never heard back. Second choice was Dan Blocker, but couldn't reach terms. I think ole Slim was just the right guy. There's a rumor that when Kong completes the inventory of the survival kit and says "Fella could have a nice time in Vegas with this" he said "Dallas" but it was overdubbed in final production. (The movie came out in December 1963.) If you look close you can see that Slim indeed says Dallas.  As for my favorite line, its when Sellers says to Keenan Wynn "Well  colonel Bat Gauno, if that is your real name---".

bondoman wrote:

Sellars was to play Kong, even learned a Texas accent, until he broke his leg, which is why Dr. S is in a chair. The production sent a letter to John Wayne requesting he play Major Kong. They never heard back. Second choice was Dan Blocker, but couldn't reach terms. I think ole Slim was just the right guy. There's a rumor that when Kong completes the inventory of the survival kit and says "Fella could have a nice time in Vegas with this" he said "Dallas" but it was overdubbed in final production. (The movie came out in December 1963.)

bondoman wrote:

Rudi35 wrote: "Range: 10 miles. Missile track deflecting. Continue evasive action. Deflection increasing; range: 8 miles. Deflection still increasing; range: 6 miles. Missile still deflecting; range: 4 miles. Range: 2 miles; missile still deflecting. Range: one mile; missile detonated! " The missile that damaged the 52 detonated at 1 mile while deflected off course. Any idea what type it would need to be in order to damage the plane at that distance? Is it realistic? It's hard to know, that stuff is forever classified. In the movie the plane is running away from it, so it might have survived. The USAF deployed AIR-2 the Genie an unguided missile with a 1.5 Kiloton nuclear warhead, up to 3,000 of them. It was the primary armament on the later series of F-89's.  The theory was that the missile would detonate in the path of the oncoming bomber stream and kill the crews. I corresponded with one F-89 pilot who said that frankly it was a pretty scary scheme where the interceptor pilot had to break off from the fireball, while the Russians who already knew they were on a one-way death flight, came through the other way.I think he used the term "hairball of nuclear war". That never left me. La Puta was the island where Gulliver encountered superior intelligence in mathematics.

Thanks for the reply bondoman. I was wondering if it was a nuclear device due to the distance but wasn't sure if they were deployed at that time by the Russians or if it was pure movie fantasy.

That's an interesting tidbit about La Puta. I always thought the named sounded rather odd.

Rudi35 wrote:

"Range: 10 miles. Missile track deflecting. Continue evasive action. Deflection increasing; range: 8 miles. Deflection still increasing; range: 6 miles. Missile still deflecting; range: 4 miles. Range: 2 miles; missile still deflecting. Range: one mile; missile detonated! " The missile that damaged the 52 detonated at 1 mile while deflected off course. Any idea what type it would need to be in order to damage the plane at that distance? Is it realistic?

The USAF deployed AIR-2 the Genie an unguided missile with a 1.5 Kiloton nuclear warhead, up to 3,000 of them. It was the primary armament on the later series of F-89's.  The theory was that the missile would detonate in the path of the oncoming bomber stream and kill the crews. I corresponded with one F-89 pilot who said that frankly it was a pretty scary scheme where the interceptor pilot had to break off from the fireball, while the Russians who already knew they were on a one-way death flight, came through the other way.I think he used the term "hairball of nuclear war". That never left me.

La Puta was the island where Gulliver encountered superior intelligence in mathematics.

Range: 2 miles; missile still deflecting. Range: one mile; missile detonated! "

The missile that damaged the 52 detonated at 1 mile while deflected off course. Any idea what type it would need to be in order to damage the plane at that distance? Is it realistic?

bondoman wrote:

Fail Safe was written by Eugene Burdick, who's niece was a early GF of mine because his brother lived across the street from us. The bombers in that movie were "Devastators" IIRC.         -------------------------------------------------------

Actually, the bombers in Failsafe were called "Devastators", but in fact if you check out the special features on the DVD, they were a single  B-58 Hustler shot taking off from different angles.

This is what prompted me to get a copy of the movie, as far as I know it is the only available footage of a B-58 taking off anyone can get.

Oh, and yes, I do have a Lindberg B-58 in my stash, and will use this movie as one of my painting references for the contrasting panels of aluminum and other metals as used on the engine necells.

Tom T

Fail Safe was written by Eugene Burdick, who's niece was a early GF of mine because his brother lived across the street from us. The bombers in that movie were "Devastators" IIRC.

It's an intriguing piece of fiction, where the American President offers up NYC as a sacrifice in return for the certain death of Moscow, in order to avert the end of the world.

 We who lived through the nuclear age, and we know who we are, basically went to school every day picturing a mushroom cloud. But we didn't hate the Russians, we saw them as equals in a very dangerous world.

Strangelove was so absurd that it made "We'll meet again " a hit for the second time around as a song.

Besides "Spartacus" which is a great film, the only other Kubrick film I can think of with a romance is "Barry Lyndon".

His greatest war film IMHO is "Paths of Glory" with Kirk Douglas, followed by Strangelove. I found "Full Metal Jacket" a real failure, although the first half is so excellent.

"Colonel Batguano, if that really is your name!"

The firefight for Burpleson AFB was a first in a drama movie involving seeming real documentary footage.

"Excuse me Mr. President, but my boys'll brush them aside".

"Spartacus" certainly had the requisite Hollywood love story woven in to the plot.

"Fail Safe", while similar in overall concept had no sense of humor to it,nor any attempt by an officer to start the war. It is more of a case of technology failing at a critical time just for a moment and the unthinkable ensues. Both are great movies in thier own right.

Anybody remember "The Bedford Incident"? Another nuclear flashpoint story from that time. Or "By Dawn's Early Light"?

T_Terrific wrote:

Rudi35 wrote: ------------------------------- One thing I noticed about Kubrick's movies in general is that they all lack a love story (only ‘lust' stories).  I find this refreshing and I think it adds to the surrealistic qualities of his movies. You're not referring to George Scott's portrayal of General "Bucky Turgid" are you ("Keep the motor running, I'll be right back")? Tom T

Yup! That's definitely a good example

The final version of that line in the movie was:

"I know how it is, baby. Tell you what you do. You just start your countdown, and old Bucky'll be back here before you can say... Blast Off!"

Here's the script if anyone wants to have a look

http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/0055.html

Lolita would be another good example. The only movie I'm not sure of is Spartacus. I don't remember much about it but it seems like the best candidate for a Hollywood love story. Does anyone know the answer?

Rudi35 wrote:

------------------------------- One thing I noticed about Kubrick's movies in general is that they all lack a love story (only ‘lust' stories).  I find this refreshing and I think it adds to the surrealistic qualities of his movies.

You're not referring to George Scott's portrayal of General "Bucky Turgid" are you ("Keep the motor running, I'll be right back")?

Tom T

Rudi35 wrote:

ModelFreak123 wrote: I love the movie!. One of my favorite memories is Slim Pickens riding the bomb down. I clearly remember walking into the living room, when I was just a kid, and seeing this scene on TV and it scared the heck out of me. Only a short time before my father had explained to me about the atom bomb and the very real threat (at that time) of nuclear war. This scene stuck with me and I didn't see the movie again until I was in my 20's! Now it's my favourite movie and one of my favourite scenes. Lot's of good trivia in this thread. I didn't know about Sellars and the broken leg. I thought the wheelchair was a stroke of genius...especially when at the end he suddenly regains the use of his legs in his moment of destiny.  "Mein Furhrer. I can valk!"

I saw Strangelove when it was first released in Hollywood at Grauman's Chinese Theater.

Turns out there was a parallel work called "Failsafe", which was actually based on a book by a different author, and Kubik tried to sue it's makers for stealing his idea, even though they had never heard of "Strangelove" before.

Oddly enough, I can follow the logic of "Failsafe" better then "Strangelove" when it comes to the bomber pilot's mentality, that is the idea of no going back home whatsoever. In failsafe, the B-58's crew had already been exposed to maximum atomic radiation by a nuclear tipped SAM, and so they had nothing to look forward to except a slow death by radiation poisening. In Slim's case, I woulda held on to the plane, climbed back inside, and said "Let's get outa here pronto!" and headed back west to the Pacific Ocean, punching out if necessary. As far as they knew, the worst that would happen would be a POW in western Russia.

According to Sellers, when they were screening and met Pickens, he came in his normal cowboy togs, and they thought he was "in costume" for the screening.

My favorite line from the movie is Sellers' "Well it is not very effective if you keep it a secret, is it?", regarding the Russian "Doomsday" device.

Tom T

bondoman wrote:

It's a 10' foot long model made for the movie. The name Leper Colony comes from "12 o'clock high". If you look carefully at the scenes of the flight over the Arctic, you'll see the shadow of the camera plane that shot the background. Unmistakeably a B-17. "And they make such damn nice little cameras." --------

In fact in the special features portion of the DVD, they describe how the footage was shot from a B-17.

Tom T

Rudi35 wrote:

bondoman wrote: Sterling Hayden played Ripper for scale wage as he liked the part so much. Even better part than the later Godfather cop. He was a real character, wrote some good books too. "You're gonna be in trouble with the Coca Cola company!". Any ole airforce type will tell you that the flight deck in no way resembles a BUFF, but after all, "this movie was made with no cooperation from the USAF", as actually all but one or two were. Thanks for the info on Hayden's books. I looked them up and was surprised to read more about the man, who is very different from what I had thought. Perhaps it's due to his acting skills but I always thought of him as ultra-rightwing, probably because those were the roles he always played. But he was anything but that - he seemed like more of a free spirit, perhaps even a Bohemian. He hated Hollywood and only acted to pay for his passion of sailing.

"Hayden became a print model and later signed a contract with Paramount Pictures, who dubbed the 6' 5" (1.96 m) actor The Most Beautiful Man in the Movies and The Beautiful Blond Viking God. His first film starred Madeleine Carroll, with whom he fell in love and married.

But after just two film roles, he left Hollywood and joined the Marines as a private, under the name "John Hamilton" (a military pseudonym only; he never used the name outside the military). While at Parris Island he was recommended for Officer Candidate School. After graduation, he was commissioned a second lieutenant and was transferred to service as an undercover agent with William J. Donovan's COI office. He remained there after it became the OSS.^[3][4][5]

As OSS agent John Hamilton, his World War II service included running guns through German lines to the Yugoslav partisans and parachuting into fascist Croatia. Hayden, who also participated in the Naples-Foggia campaign and established air crew rescue teams in enemy-occupied territory, became a first lieutenant on September 13, 1944, and a captain on February 14, 1945. He won the Silver Star (for gallantry in action in the Balkans and Mediterranean; "Lt. Hamilton displayed great courage in making hazardous sea voyages in enemy-infested waters and reconnaissance through enemy-held areas"), a Bronze Arrowhead device for parachuting behind enemy lines, and a commendation from Yugoslavia's Marshal Tito. He left active duty on December 24, 1945.^[5]"

bondoman wrote:

Sterling Hayden played Ripper for scale wage as he liked the part so much. Even better part than the later Godfather cop. He was a real character, wrote some good books too. "You're gonna be in trouble with the Coca Cola company!". Any ole airforce type will tell you that the flight deck in no way resembles a BUFF, but after all, "this movie was made with no cooperation from the USAF", as actually all but one or two were.

Thanks for the info on Hayden's books. I looked them up and was surprised to read more about the man, who is very different from what I had thought. Perhaps it's due to his acting skills but I always thought of him as ultra-rightwing, probably because those were the roles he always played. But he was anything but that - he seemed like more of a free spirit, perhaps even a Bohemian. He hated Hollywood and only acted to pay for his passion of sailing.

He eventually dropped out, kidnapped his kids (from his estranged wife) and sailed off into the sunset. He wrote a book called ‘Wanderer' about this period and the online reviews are generally quite favourable.

One thing I noticed about Kubrick's movies in general is that they all lack a love story (only ‘lust' stories).  I find this refreshing and I think it adds to the surrealistic qualities of his movies.

bondoman wrote:

Dr. Strangelove the movie was rewritten by Terry Southern, for whom there's not an easy clip to describe, but he was a brilliant writer who's hand is clear in the concept of new journalism that gave us Hunter Thompson, Tom Wolfe, Ken Kesey, SNL etc.

Back to the serious side, read Herman Kahn "On thermonuclear war". We all lived through that successful theory of MAD in the 50's and 60's.

That's where the concept of the mineshafts came from, the predestination of a later superior race;

"say on a scale of 10 attractive females for every male".(Southern)

Dr. Strangelove the movie was rewritten by Terry Southern, for whom there's not an easy clip to describe, but he was a brilliant writer who's hand is clear in the concept of new journalism that gave us Hunter Thompson, Tom Wolfe, Ken Kesey, SNL etc.

As a source for modeling, the movie has one single a/c, which isn't very accurate, and as my old friend Airman Jim always tells me, the interiors don't much in any way resemble a B-52, but it alone allows me to have the piece of mind to model the Cold War, the last war we really won. Just my

Sterling Hayden played Ripper for scale wage as he liked the part so much. Even better part than the later Godfather cop. He was a real character, wrote some good books too.

"You're gonna be in trouble with the Coca Cola company!".

Any ole airforce type will tell you that the flight deck in no way resembles a BUFF, but after all, "this movie was made with no cooperation from the USAF", as actually all but one or two were.

ModelFreak123 wrote:

I love the movie!. One of my favorite memories is Slim Pickens riding the bomb down.

I clearly remember walking into the living room, when I was just a kid, and seeing this scene on TV and it scared the heck out of me. Only a short time before my father had explained to me about the atom bomb and the very real threat (at that time) of nuclear war. This scene stuck with me and I didn't see the movie again until I was in my 20's! Now it's my favourite movie and one of my favourite scenes.

Lot's of good trivia in this thread. I didn't know about Sellars and the broken leg. I thought the wheelchair was a stroke of genius...especially when at the end he suddenly regains the use of his legs in his moment of destiny.

 "Mein Furhrer. I can valk!"

I also love the Cowboy hat, Maj Kong wear.