"Foiled" Again: B17G Build

Last winter I became a bit frustrated with my foil progress (I lined up the nose windows wrong and not realizing this couldn't figure out why my rivet lines and seams were off!) I therefore I took a break and started sub-assemblies on the interior.  Here's the radio room forward bulkhead.  I made the bulkhead from sheet plastic and opened the door to show they were in a hurry to get out.  The door is balsa wood that I painted with artist oils, same as the plywood floor and operators desk.  I used Big Ed aftermarket parts with homemade additions.  The fire extinguisher is a 1/32 US mortar tube.

More radio room progress. After much reading and looking at other projects, I decided to paint the interior "Bronze Green".  This was approved for the nose, co-cockpit and radio room while the waist was left in natural aluminum.  I know there are different views on this but I think that the early Douglas G's were painted this way.

Shell casings were made from plastic rod.  My project also had a ring mount for the radio room .50 machine gun and I have a template in place.

Wow!! Just found your B-17 build!!  What awesome work so far; the wooden floor and door detail are really well executed.  The .50 Cal shell casings are also a nice touch. I've got a couple of B-17s in the stash to build somewhere down the road.......Will be watching your progress closely and taking notes.

great work so far. look forward to seeing the rest. I built a B-17 a year or so back...may have to go get antoher one and use some of your techniques, specially the balsa wood floor/door. never even occured to me to use it!

Thanks again.  To be honest, I have to thank all of you guys.  I took A LOT of ideas from other modelers and kept notes on all of their GREAT work.  The balsa floor wasn't my idea but it's really easy to do and adds some realism when looking inside.  I know a lot will not be seen when completed but I had a lot of fun doing it!

Rick

More Radio Room photos.  I sanded away the kit details and added my own.  Big Ed photo etched parts were fun to work with and added realism.  I used model railroad air hoses throughout the plane which looked pretty good once painted and installed at the air regulators.

Starting to enter the waist.  Again, added my own details, mostly photo etching parts.  The floors are hand painted balsa wood, same as Radio Room.  I found that 1/35 scale US truck headlights with a little sanding make excellent oxygen walk around bottles.  

Love the build, nice touches with the foil and wood finishes, they really help bring this warbird back to life.  I'm looking forward to seeing more on this build.

Incredible work with the foil, I have to know, what glue did you use and exactly how did you apply it to the foil? Did you have to completely cover the foil with glue then stick it to the plastic or cover the plastic with glue? I really want to use this technique on a Mig 21, no matter how good the alclad finish is, it still does not compare to foil.

Thanks for the kind words.  The glue I use is Micro Metal Foil Adhesive.  The company is out of Fountain Valley, CA but my Hobby Shop carried it.  It looks like white glue but goes on almost like water.  I cut my piece of foil to fit first.  Then, I use a soft, cheap brush and with a dab of glue "paint" the area to be foiled.  The bottle recommends letting the glue set up so it's tacky, but I like putting the foil right on because I can move the foil around.  After I like the fit, I rub it lightly with a Q-tip just the get the foil down tight.  You can use either side of the foil and because it's actually aluminum, nothing looks quite like it.

Once your first panel looks good, you'll be hooked! Good luck and let me know if there's anything else I can help with.

Rick

I will yeah definitely thanks.

Rick, great work on that B-17, and a great story to go along with it. Would it be possible for you to post the reference pictures that you're using for this project? I would love to see them.

A fellow foiler!  I am having a break from it at the moment, but I love doing planes like this.!!!

Incredible building by the way, especially with the wood!  

This is all I've gotta say here:

Amazing! Simply amazing!

Here are a few photos of the actual B-17 crashed at the field.  They are of low quality but if you look close at the nose and cockpit window the white marks are actually bare aluminum where bullet holes are.  You can also see the engine is tore off the mount and was possibly smoking.

Starboard side tail.  Some items of interest:  The crew entry door appears to have collapsed inside from the tail breaking.  The tail wheel is visible and I'm not certain if the recovery team was trying to lower the wheels as the plane was lifted or if the wheel was possibly forced down where the damage was.  There were no squadron codes painted on the sides.  This aircraft was transferred from another group and never had numbers painted on the fuselage.   There is also damage around the elevator.

LT. Zitnik

Sgt Rimmer

Major Hackl

These are the actual men involved.  I'll post a photo of LT. Pelley when I have one.  He was the bombardier that tried to pull Sgt. Rimmer back up prior to the crash.  Progress has been a bit slow but I'll be back at it this week and post more photos.  Hoping to FINALLY finish the fuselage so I can start on the wings.

Rick

I have one more question about the foil, when using Alclad or any silver paint the plastic has to be prefect, does it need to be polished to perfection for foil? I wouldn't leave huge scratches I always smooth seams out, but with metal paints you have to be anal about it, and I was wondering if it was the same for foil?

In my experience I would say no.  I sanded my work  until the seams were as smooth as I could get them.  After that, I used a cloth buffing wheel in my Dremel tool to smooth the plastic and seams-turned out like glass!  Then I would apply the foil and never had a problem.  Although it is thin, Reynold's Wrap does have a thickness to it and so far seams and blemishes have not surfaced.

I'll add one more technique for the brave-after putting a piece on, if you gently removed it the foil will get really small wrinkles in it.  If you then put it back and lightly smooth it out, it really looks like the stressed skin of a WWII plane.  I found this out by accident but was already almost done and there was no way I was going to start from scratch! :)

Rick

What a great homage to these brave men.  Its looking great Rick.  Loving the detail work in the waist gunner section and the spent shell casings.  It reminds me of Shep Paine's B-17.  Isn't it a shame most of this work will be sealed up?  Cool reference pics too.  I was able to get a photo of my Grandfather's B-17 belly landed in the German countryside.  You can almost make out the port outboard engine all shot up.  I am however curious, why the foil on an Olive Drab over Neutral Grey scheme?  Perhaps you said and I missed it.

Anyways, I'm following your work and can't wait to see it completed.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the comments.  Good question on why the foil on a painted B-17.  When I started this, I had no intention of the foil.  My problem began when I had to re-arrange the nose windows and sanded all of the details off.  Trying to scribe panel lines also tore up my putty work and I needed a solution for the nose.  When I foiled the nose and put the rivets in I knew I had to do the entire plane.  Because I always wanted to do a big project  this was the one, especially with my collection of artifacts etc.  

Time for you to get going on your Grandfather's B-17, rivets and all! :)

Rick

Rick, thanks for posting the pictures. That puts a whole new light on the entire project for us observers. You ever thought of writing a book about this event? It would make a great story. I would definitely buy it!

Great story and a great build!

This looks fantastic; I too now want to go out and pick up another B-17 project.  I will definitely be following this thread and getting ideas.  I am seeing things here that can be used on many different projects not just WWII aircraft.

I am currently getting ready to start an F-4G in the markings of the 124th FW, Idaho National Guard, the last operational unit of F-4G's and the only Air National Guard Unit to fly the F-4G model.  I will be doing updates and photos of this for a group build taking place here.

Thank you :)

Another technique that can be tried is running the tool along the foil and making a line of rivets. Then using a straight edge and a sharp Xacto knife trim the foil away leaving only the rivets.  You can use the rivets to fix details sanded away or make your own rivet seams without doing the entire project in foil.  If you trim the foil close enough it will never show up.  Works great on tough to sand areas like wing roots.  I'll post more photos soon. Almost done with the fuselage and will be starting the wings soon.

Rick

Here are a few more as I work my way back toward the tail.  Finishing up where the panels come together along the upper portion of the fuselage.  Have to finish the nose which is last, tail and tail gunner area.  The black marks are from my Sharpie and I haven't cleaned them off yet.

Seadog, that's beautiful work!  It looks very natural.  You're doing a superb job.  In fact, it looks so natural, that I'm inspired to try the same thing on my B-17G.