Lawdog,

I didn't quite understand some of you explanation. How did you make the masks for the roundels? I would really like to try that trick on both British and Japanese AC.

  Every time i see WIP and lawdog114 in a new post,  I know that modeling nirvana is waiting.  I nominate you for modeler/entertainer of 2014,  and you are off to a great start in 2015.  Thanks for taking the time to post your work.                            knox

Beautiful bird, I always enjoy watching your builds.

On the weight and balance discussion, if the ailerons were cloth covered, being concerned about the weight of paint makes some sense.  Currently, if a US Navy aircraft gets repainted, it gets reweighed to add the weight of the paint (consider how many gallons of paint get used, not to mention, it isn't exactly lightweight acrylic!).

Because the aileron is probably the farthest point from the center of gravity of a wing, being concerned about the relative weight of paint makes a lot of sense.  It's like a board balanced on a rock with neither end touching the ground.  Putting a quarter on it near the rock may not do anything to it, while a quarter at one end of the board may push that end to the ground.

Groot

It takes basic tools to balance a control surface. Squadron mechanics would have to check balances after a repair.

However that being said, the formula for roundels is interesting. I was unaware of how they calculated sizes. That would explain the size differences.

Thank you for bringing that to light.

During WWII, Squadrons did not have the facility for balancing ailerons (or rudders.) With today's technology, things might be different, but not 70+ years ago.

There was a standard formula for producing wing-top roundels; measure the wingspan and divide by 3, then measure that distance out from the centre of the fuselage. This marks the centre of the roundel, which should fill the available space, without encroaching on the aileron (or yellow leading edge in the case of fighters.) This is why upper wing roundels are all different sizes; under-wing and fuselage roundels were set sizes, as were the fin flashes.

Just beautiful work and paint on that Spit. fantastic work on the painted markings too.

Those Tamiya kits just fall together right out of the box. I recently did a Tamiya Spit as a commission and it was a pure joy to build and detail.

Any control surface can be balanced in the field. I've balanced a few myself, albeit civilian AC.

Edgar may be right though, I just can't find any reference for it and was wondering if he knew where I could find it. I did find regulations on sizes, colors and distances of the roundels from the canopy etc. though.

...I was gonna say Spit Vs had metal ailerons, and they would not be balanced in the field, but balanced at the factory after being painted. They might be field balanced after a repair, though.

Edgar

there was a standing instruction that roundels should never encroach onto ailerons; ailerons had to be carefully balanced, and even a small amount of paint would have upset them.

I'm slightly dubious of this. The British may not have wanted to paint the roundels on the ailerons, but I'm not too sure that weight would have been an issue. If that were the case, why paint camo on them, just leave them with colored dope. Besides the control surfaces are balanceable in the field.
I certainly could be, and probably am wrong here, but I can't find any reference to this. I would like to know for sure so I can avoid making a similar boo boo in a future.

Edit:  After some more research, I found the ailerons were not fabric but light alloy due to "ballooning" at high speed, however I still would like to find some info about paint and weight.

Edgar

Very good, but the only problem is that there was a standing instruction that roundels should never encroach onto ailerons; ailerons had to be carefully balanced, and even a small amount of paint would have upset them. also, nothing was supposed to encroach on the roundels, and that included the walkway lines.

Yeah...it was kind of a crap shoot getting the tape in the right place in relation to the red dot below it.  My first attempt at this.  Turned out them roundels should be more forward....oh well.  I can however fix the walk line.  I'm still pleased with the overall look... 

Thanks for the kind words all...

Joe 

Joe,

Your Spit is looking great!  I've got to agree that painted on insignia looks so much better than decals.  I've bought some masks and hope to try them soon.

Steve

Very good, but the only problem is that there was a standing instruction that roundels should never encroach onto ailerons; ailerons had to be carefully balanced, and even a small amount of paint would have upset them. also, nothing was supposed to encroach on the roundels, and that included the walkway lines.

Nice work on those rounels and flases, Joe.  There's a company named Maketar that sells die cut roundel, flash and call letter masks in vinyl and kabuki tape at reasonable prices as well.  Makes those little bulls eyes, stars and bars and even balkancruz very easy.

Outstanding work there!

Mike

Joe, that looks great.

After dealing with the best set of decals I have yet to try on my Spit I am still not entirely happy with the look. Don't get me wrong, they came out pretty decent, but they just don't look as real as your painted ones do. I am convinced now, thanks to you, that I must paint as many decals as I can rather than use the kit parts. It just looks more convincing. Great work.

Anytime you can paint your decals, I say it's the way to go.  =]  I normally cut out my own out of being cheap and the challenge and calling it my own, but I recently bought a Montex Mask set that I used last night.  I almost feel bad cause I think it came out too perfect. lol  It was real easy and went down like a charm.  I had to slow myself down so the paint could finish drying!  Kinda feels like cheating to be honest...

But I think a well painted insignia is the way to go if you have the means.  These are a treat to see. =]

Looks great! Not sure I'd have the guts to try painting the insignia but as usual yours looks terrific!

Indeed....thanks MC

Joe,

Looks great, and the roundels are fantastic. Your braver than I, I'm not sure I could do half as well, although I've always wanted to try. Painted markings always look better.

Thanks everyone for the kind words.  I had a marathon paint session last night.  On a previous zero build, I decided to try to paint on Japanese Hinomarus in lieu of decals.  It worked great, so due to my absolute hatred for British roundel decals, which I always have issues with, I decided to try to paint the upper wing ones on as well (I'm not adventurous enough to try the bullseyes yet).  I started by using the decal sheet as a size and color reference, then I took XF-7 Flat Red with some XF-1 Flat Black added to darken it.   After spraying this down, I used a fresh Exacto knife in my circle template to the appropriate size. I then did the same for the Flat Blue (XF-8), to include darkening it a bit.  After the larger  circle, I'm here...(I also sprayed the black wing walk lines and then taped them off)...

I simultanously decided to paint in the the striped fin flags.  It was a taping and spraying exercise which required some though.  I started with the white, taped it off, then sprayed and taped the red and blue, using the kit decal as reference thusly....

Then I taped off the correct size...done...

It was now time for the scheme.  As I said, Lock's ride apparently had the early scheme.  This was my first experience with Gunze Aqueous Dark Earth.  I don't know, I'm no expert, but it seems a bit too red.  Perhaps this color was more red than brown...

I then began the tedious process of taping off the camo for the dark green.  I used Blue Tac rolled up to mark out the pattern then post it notes and masking tape to fill in the areas that are to remain brown.  This looks horrible yeah?..............but it works...

I then found that my XF-83 RAF Green bottle was almost empty.....doh!  Too many Spitfires!  I took what was left of it as reference and tried to mix it with some greens I had.  Tamiya recommended 5 parts XF-62 Olive Drab and one part XF-58 Olive Green, so I started there.  I then added some more Olive Green and then XF-61 Neutral Grey until it looked close.  After adding some XF-57 Buff for condensation streaking, here it is untaped....

i must say I'm happy with the results of the painted roundels and fin flash...

I gave the frame a minor postshade around the engine and guns.  I also fired in some subtle exhaust streaks.  It will get more later...

We're almost ready for the clear coat.  Stay tuned..

Joe

Another beauty Joe!

Btw I agree, this is one of the best fitting kits I've ever built, if it were any easier it would build itself.

Good work so far!

That's looking good Joe, even if it is a Spit

Nice Spit Joe, it's coming along nicely.

Joe,

That cockpit is totally wicked!

Thanks guys. Last night I got some work in.  These things do pretty much fall together.  I had some minor sanding/rescribing at the wingroot fuselage joint but that was about it.  Gotta love these Tamiya Spitfires...

I also removed the wing strengthening strakes which Tamiya molds to the top of their wings (2 each wing).  Some planes had them.....others didn't.  I really don't like them so I shaved them off with acurved Exacto.  It was easier than one would think.

The seams were primed with Alclad Grey and I got to preshading the panel lines.  The Spitfire generally takes a while.

I ultimately decided on Eric Lock's 611 Squadron machine, which, according to Victory Productions, carried the earlier Dark Earth and Dark Green over Sky scheme.  Lock's Mk. V was apparently an early production version  that swung the De Havilland propeller.  The kit comes with the Rotol version, so I'll either source this from my Mk. I in the stash or get an Ultracast replacement. 

I sprayed the fuse band XF-21 Sky.  After I taped it off, I concocted my own "Sky type S".  I started with XF-21 Sky, added a touch of X-3 Flat Yellow then a few drops of XF-76 Grey Green.  I just toyed with the mixture until I liked it.   Once satisfied, I added XF-2 Flat White and made condensation streaks.  Here we are...

Here we are after a post shade.  I like to stop just before it becomes too much...

I should get to the upper surfaces soon.  I have a brand new bottle of Gunze Aqueous Dark Earth I'm anxious to try out. 

Joe    

I built this very same kit some time ago after getting back into modeling. Needless to say yours is looking heads and tails better than mine and you're just getting started! Great work so far!

Office looking spot on Joe ,another great build in the making!