Color of P-47D bubble top cockpit

Interior green should do nicely, Mike.

Thanks Ed.

I was hoping you would see this.

Mike

Now, I've read where the European Dark Green is supposed to be a better match than the green chromate or the interior green. I've just heard that, I don't know for sure. I'd imagine, however, that any of the three would look great and nobody would ever notice or say anything at all.

P-47 cockpits were not painted in standard Interior Green. The color used was a darker, more bluish green shade. Bert Kinzey's Detail in Scale book has an explanation & color pics for reference. I have never found an exact match in hobby paints but some use IJNAF Green, which is close if you lighten it some. The closest match I've found is Humbrol Deck Green ( Can't recall the Humbrol reference #) which is what I normally use. I usually buy 2 tins of the Humbrol & transfer it to a mixing jar where I add just a small amount of Azure Blue to lighten it some. It's a pretty elusive color, but I get a pretty close match to the color pics.

Regards, Rick

Hey Mike,
If I'm not mistaken, interior green would not be the right colour. Its more of a meduim green/ green gray colour. Can't remember the FS number at the moment.
Flaps up, Mike

Thanks guys, now I am even more confused.
The only color I have here right now that is even remotely close is Poly Scale Light Green. The hobby shop is closed tonight so I guess I will wait until tomorrow night and go get some MM Acryl that is fairly close and see what I can come up with.

Mike

Mike, you could just use Tamiya Flat Green XF-5, once you give it coat of Future and a wash with some Burnt Umber oil paint, a flat coat and a dry brush with some lighter Zinc Chromate Green for the highlights it will look great and no-one will know the difference (my opinion).

Cheers...Snowy.

Rick,

So are the photos that Maddafinga posted incorrect?
They sure look like interior green or Zinc Chromate in that photo.
Was it repainted a different color?

Mike

Hey Mike,
The colour in those pix do look like Interior green but the few w/ the sun hitting em, look more like a lighter shade of the above.
By the way the pix look, it seems to be a restored bird. I usually do not follow or go by pictures of restored a/c. They have a tendency to be inaccurate in areas. The cockpit for starters. Can u say $$$$$$$$$$$. The more you have the better the restoration is...
I would go along to what Snowy mentioned. And if somebody does not like it well..........
Hope this helps ya a bit.

.....hhhhhmmmmmmmm.........
may i be rhetorical for a min or two ?.........i'm as anal retentive/compulsive as any modeller...maybe even in some cases....more so, in that i pick a reference photo(s) i like and start putting together elements from the modelling world to replicate the photo(s)..........silly or not that's the formula i'm compelled to follow......
i've on a occasion had the opportunity to line up probably 1/2 dozen of the interior cockpit colours by various mfgs'.....MM, Testor's Acryl, Poly-S, Gunze, Tamiya, Xtra-colour, Humbrol....etc.......& aside from some shade differences here and there i was remiss to pick which one was the "exact" one for a given scale subject.......the choices are as varied as are the perspectives.......shade, half-light, canopy open/closed.....etc......etc.
during the mfg of war planes......were they that consistent in colour shading during it's application ??????

Mike,

This is a subject on which you are never going to get a definitive answer. No matter what color you decide to use, someone is going to say you're wrong. Erich Hartmann once did an interview with an American magazine (think it was Air Classics, back in the late 70s). During the course of the interview, he was questioned on the colors and markings carried on his Bf109G6. He drew a sketch, which was printed which defined those colors and markings. Which prompted a bunch of letters (largely out of Great Britian and some of them quite nasty) to the effect that Hartmann had absolutley no idea what he was talking about because so and so or such and such had researched the question and that research did not agree with his drawings and statements. Now who are you going to believe? The guy who operated the equipment or some guy who has only seen black and white photos of the subject?

Besides, you know there is at least one P-47 out there that has a zinc chromat green interior - you've got color pictures of it. Just pick a color that you like and go with it. (as long as it isn't pink or purple - lol)

Mike, If you can, take a look at the Bert Kinzey Detail in Scale book on the P-47D. It includes color pics of an unrestored P-47D, which Kinzey describes as Dull Dark Green. It is definitely not Interior Green nor Chromate Green. All of the Republic built P-47D's were painted in this interior color. Kinzey does note that some P-47D's were built by Curtiss under license by Republic and some of these were painted with Chromate Green. This has probably led to some of the confusion by various researchers. In any case, Kinzey's book is a gold mine of information if you want to get real serious about modeling a P-47D. Also, if you look closely at the pics posted by Madda, only the one shot appears to be chromate, which appears to be a lighting/ exposure issue to me. The first three show a much darker color, closer to the pics in Kinzeys book.

Regards, Rick

The very bottom of this article talks about the P-47...he seems to have done his research...I think what Rick says about Dull Dark Green seems dead on...

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/02/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us_part2.htm

Thanks for the info everyone.
So, since I use MM Acryl colors, what would you recommend is the closest from Testors color chart?
http://www.testors.com/brand_category.asp?brandNbr=4

Thanks

Mike

Mike, none of them are a real good match. From what I can tell from the color chart, the medium green FS34102 might be the closest, but like I said in prior posts, I mix mine to match color pics.

Regards, Rick

Thanks Rick.

I happen to have that color as that is the lighter of the two green colors on my A-1H Skyraider.


I guess I can add something to it to come with a sort-of accurate representation of the right color.

Mike

Mike, might want to add a little dark blue to the medium green to get a closer match.

Regards, Rick

Thanks Rick.

Do you happen to know of a website with the photos you mentioned of the P-47D cockpit?

Mike

Those pics I put up were from a restored bird. She's Tarheel Hal from the Lone Star Flight Museum. I also got lots of good wheelwell pics and several with the cowl off when they were changing the engine. Holler at me if you want some detail shots Mike. As for the exact color, who can say. I bet if you used that green left over from your Spad, nobody would be the wiser. It's such a small amount of paint and so many things affect the color of it and the color of the real thing.

Also, a man would have to be a real jackass to look at your wonderful completed bird and say "Well, I can see that your cockpit color is not an exact match." I'd say that anything close you could use would be perfect.

Thanks Josh,

If I can find some good reference shots then I will try and make it more accurate but if I can't find anything then it will be done my way.

Mike

When I do mine, it's gonna be pink with purple polka dots.

Then I'm gonna take it to a contest and get into an argument with a guy who will have inevitably told me that "there was NEVER a P-47 with a cockpit painted that way" to which I'll retort, "How do you know? Were you there? Did you see EVERY P-47 ever made? How do you know it wasn't repainted in the field?" To which he'll retort, "But PINK and PURPLE polka dots?" and I'll say "Haven't you ever heard of a flying circus? Some of those fighter jocks were real clowns..."

All that just to cause trouble, cuz that's what I do...



By the way, satisfy yourself and paint it the way you wanna paint it...


Fade to Black...

Thanks Steve.
Would you happen to have the photos that are in the Detail and Scale book of the cockpit? Otherwise I guess I will have to buy it.

Mike

Butch Schroeder of Danville, Illinios has a super restored P-47. He is a real stickler for originality and researches the colors quite extensively for his airplanes. He is also the owner of the fabulously restored F-6D of which some of you may be familiar.

Possibly a contact with him could give some insight to the proper color, and how it was replicated.

Another super stickler restoration facility is Yanks Air Museum in Chino, CA. They have a P-47D, and the YP-47M used in two aborted attempts at competing in the post war Bendix Race (it's assymetric Curtiss Electric paddle blade prop, now fitted, is really something to see in person). These ships are on display, and the museum could be contacted by commercial means.

Lonestar Flight Museum puts out some beautifully operational restorations, however the airplanes are subject to some artistic license. Personally, I liked the chrome on their Tigercat! My personal contacts at the POF museum wouldn't help with this as their stuff is painted from the Sherwin Williams catalog. But, who is to say their PRU Blue Spitfire is the wrong color, right?

Have fun,
Chris...

QUOTE: Originally posted by rjkplasticmod Mike, If you can, take a look at the Bert Kinzey Detail in Scale book on the P-47D. It includes color pics of an unrestored P-47D, which Kinzey describes as Dull Dark Green. It is definitely not Interior Green nor Chromate Green.

Rick,

Any chance you could scan that interior photo from Mr. Kinzey's book and email it to me?

Thanks

Mike

Hi Mike, I missed your request before. Sure, at least I'll try. My Scanner aint the best & you do get some changes on the web, but at least it will show what I mean. I'm not sure FSM allows attachments, so it might be better if you gave me your eMail address. I'll try & see what happens.

Regards, Rick

Thanks Rick.

My email is airbrush4you@comcast.net

Maybe a picture of it with your digital camera would be better?
Your aircraft photos look great so hopefully the colors you are talking about will come through fairly well. If they look slightly different then just let me know what color needs to be added to come to the color in the book.

I sure appreciate it my friend.

Mike

I like that polka dot idea Steve!! That would be awesome, but you'd have to make some kind of modification to the rudder pedals so they could be worked with those big red shoes.

Um, I'm not touching the main debate. I've been around too long to know there's no right answer unless you have the unrestored prototype of what you're modeling sitting in your garage. Close is the best you can wish for. Closer is better. Exactly is unprovable. But I do know something about the Lone Star Flight Museum, and I can tell you that, like the CAF, accurate color matching takes a long, long, looooong back seat to mechanical considerations. So I would never base what I wanted to be an accurate historical replica on what sits in that great Galveston museum, or the Conf...Commemorative Air Force.
The one exception I will always trust is the Smithsonian Air and Space museum, for I have seen in print and with mine own gray eyes how carefully they remove flakes of paint, from the top coat down, coat by coat, until they reach bare metal, so they know every color the plane ever wore. And when they put it back on, they match the pigments with astonishing care. Read the book on their restoration of the famous Me-262 or their restoration of the FW-190. Both books are findable, I think. You'll be amazed. It's as though they were building a giant museum quality model with a million dollar budget.

QUOTE: Originally posted by sharkskin Um, I'm not touching the main debate. I've been around too long to know there's no right answer unless you have the unrestored prototype of what you're modeling sitting in your garage. Close is the best you can wish for. Closer is better. Exactly is unprovable.

I totally agree Tom.
I am not trying for absolute accuracy as some seem to strive for, as that is a waste of time to me personally. I can be building another kit while the "rivet counters" are still researching the paint colors on theirs.
All I want is a a cockpit that is close to being accurate and that is good enough for me. The UV rays from the sun can change colors drastically over time so who is to say what it "should" look like.

Mike