Think we're stupid!

was watching a show abot the Bermuda Triangle last night and saw the same thing. I was also disappointed in their research, or lack thereof. They also played the pick and choose method of presenting evidence.

Regrettably, yes, they do think we're stupid.
And you know what? Many people who watched that show wouldn't know the difference between fecal matter and clay. Have you watched commercial television lately? Do the advertisements seem patronising and REALLY stupid? That's because they aim for the lowest common denominator, and it works for them because many people either don't know, don't care, or are too dumb to know the difference.
Did you know that thousands of letters are posted each year to the major networks, sent to the characters of the daytime TV soap operas? Not to the actors who play them, but to the characters.
Isn't that scary?
Cheers,
LeeTree

Unfortunately, our top leaders are playing the same game.

You all have touched upon a subject that always bugged me to no end! On one of the Documentary stations a couple weeks ago, they had a story about finding a P-51 that went missing somewhere around San Francisco Bay during WWII, while being ferried by one of the WASP pilots. As they were recounting her supposed course of flight, they were showing file footages of bare aluminum (factory fresh) P-40N's in flight!

Not only that, but there's another nasty Hollywood habit that always insulted my intelligence: How they substitute the real sound of an aircraft (especially helicopters) with a *recognizable* helicopter sound!!! For example, in the movie "What Waits Below", a UH-1H approaches the field where the actors are discussing an upcoming spelunking expidition, and as it is shown landing, I'll be dad-gummed if it didn't sound like a Bell 47!?!???!!!??? I don't see how anyone could watch that scene without laughing at the *tender* little rotor pops as the Huey flared to land!

Reminds me of the infamous "Falling Aircraft" whine that accompany's any flying machine that runs out of gas (the SECOND it runs out of gas), or is shot down in these wonderous productions!

Amazing!

Yeah, that's true.
Ever heard the sound of a seriously heavy impact between two automobiles? It's absolutely nothing like the sounds on tv or movies.
Again, I can only say that the majority of what we see and hear (and are told) is aimed at the lowest common denominator. Politicians are a case in point.
The freaky thing is - WE were the ones who elected them.............makes you wanna cry..........
Cheers,
LeeTree

Yep, except it makes me want to do a major "Kit Bash" on their stupid lying heads!

"Wonder how well Super Glue adhere's to Weasel lips?"
Frank

QUOTE: Originally posted by leemitcheltree Yeah, that's true. Ever heard the sound of a seriously heavy impact between two automobiles? It's absolutely nothing like the sounds on tv or movies. Again, I can only say that the majority of what we see and hear (and are told) is aimed at the lowest common denominator. Politicians are a case in point. The freaky thing is - WE were the ones who elected them.............makes you wanna cry.......... Cheers, LeeTree

Another good one to listen for is the report of a firearm being shot. Many times...if you do shoot a lot...you can tell that it has been added in later. Also, shooting in an enclosed area is a big one for me to pick on. Hearing is not affected by the report of the firearm going off in the enclosed area.The movie "The Recuit" probably showed better than any movie a real human reaction when they did have the characters react to the sound of the pistol going off...and not that there was just a gunshot. Ah, nothing like the ringing of the ears from that first shot from a high caliber weapon...that is why you always wear some ear protection.

Jerry

i DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I'VE SEEN DOUGLAS DAUNTLESSES DIVE BOMB PEARL HARBOR. WAS WATCHING 'TASK FORCE' THE OTHER NIGHT (GARY COOPER) AND IT SHOWED HIS AIRCRAFT ON DOWNWIND(HELLCAT)BASE(AVENGER)FINAL(SBD).AND THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.I SUPPOSE THE AMOUNT OF FOLKS WHO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE GETS SHORTER EVERY DAY. AND THOSE WHO CARE.
TEISE

Although I'm a BIG Star Wars fan, I've always been rather annoyed at the noises the Star Wars spaceships do while cruising, dogfigthing... At least they got it right in '2001 Space Odyssey'..! But those like that are few and far between...

If you don't like bad news, don't read beyond this point.

Yes, they think we're stupid, and with good reason. When IQ tests were developed, they used a bell curve to determine what was "normal" and set the scores of 100 to 120 around that peak.

About 10 years ago they checked the current results and found the peak of the bell curve was right on the 88 mark on the original scale. A more recent check showed the average had dropped another 4 points. 79 is classified as the high end of "mildly retarded" if I'm not mistaken.

There's your "lowest common denominator."

That is somewhat frightening to me. Egads.



madda

If you watch the opening of "Close Encounters" where they find Flight 19 in the desert. you'll see one of those Avengers is a Hellcat. They just used it to fill out the quantity of planes they had, and it was only shown head-on. But still.

Last week NBC in the NY area had a special commemorating the 100th anniversary of the Wright Bros. They did a bit on Republic aviation, and talked about the P-47 - and put up a picture of a Seversky P-35! As the son of a Jug jockey, I was a bit pissed. At least they then showed Chuck Scarborough standing in front of a REAL P-47N at the Cradle of Aviation museum (and it was in my Dad's squadron markings!).

There are probably more examples of these mistakes than we can possibly name here. I can remember them going all the way back to a Hogan's Heroes episode where somebody took off in a B-25, cruised in an Fw-200, and landed in a B-17.

In TV Land all aircraft fall into one of four catagories - one prop, two props, four props, and jets. Even the number of wings doesn't count. Ever watch "Flying Tigers"?

TEISE - The Dauntlesses are from John Ford's December 7th "mocumentary." Has anyone seen this obvious Hollywood hokum ? It was billed as a documentary, and the only actual footage in it is the familiar ones shown today (Arizona explosion, sunken Oklahoma, etc.) "Death" scenes overacted more than the worst stage hams. At least today, those of us who choose to learn about history can see through the shameless manipulation. I feel that if one element of history in a documentary is falsified, it renders the entire piece as suspect. Be glad that we are fortunate enough to know the reality. So many uninformed people "out there" swallow whole whatever they are fed. Kind of a sad statement about the power of the media.

I thought it was great when President Bush flew to the USS Abraham Lincoln on an S-3 Viking ASW plane and everyone on TV kept referring to the hoover as a "fighter jet"!

Fellas the worst part of all this is "you don't know, what you don't know." Sure it bugs us when a movie/TV show/documetary uses the wrong A/C, the wrong helicopter sound, whatever it may be. But it only bugs us because we know better. I am sure there are shows about lawyers that drive lawyers crazy but we think are great, one of my best friends is a firefighter and watching a show with him about firefighters is truly an education. But the truth is, if he hadn't told me it was wrong I would have just thought how cool it looked and never known the guys on tv were using the wrong type of hose or ladder. The same as most people think when they see a show about Avengers but there are Corsairs on the screen.

Sure if there is a picture of George Washington on TV I would expect the folks watching to know who he is, but to most Americans the difference between Avengers and Corsairs is simply trivia. That is how they can get away with putting stuff like that on TV.

QUOTE: Originally posted by djmodels1999 Although I'm a BIG Star Wars fan, I've always been rather annoyed at the noises the Star Wars spaceships do while cruising, dogfigthing... At least they got it right in '2001 Space Odyssey'..! But those like that are few and far between...



Blasting Star Wars! Blasphamy!

Of course, Star Wars is just for fun- the movie would be petty dull without the sounds. And more or less, the other movies are the same. Sit back, chow some popcorn and veg out.

Now when it comes to documentories, or movies that document history, I too get a little anal when things are innacurate. Not just with wrong planes and such but downright bad physics sometimes that a high school education could prove wrong.

Hollywool ah --_ Hollywood is out to make money and entertain the public. They really don't care about accuracy. In the movie "Top Gun", there was supposed to be advisors from the Navy on the set to offer technical advice. If they were there, they must have been off looking at the women instead. One comment made in the movie was the A-4 was faster and more maneuverable than the F-14. Sure it is. Another comical part is when Maverick pushes the throttle forward to slow the aircraft and slams it back to speed up. The noise the throttle makes is like nothing I have ever heard.

Oh, and where can I find one of those thousand shot weapons that only run out of ammo at the worst time. Our hero has over five thousand bullets from semi auto and full auto fired at him and none hits him. I could do better blindfolded.

Walker, Texas Ninja Ranger, is the only person I know of who will put down his weapon se he can fight some one with his feet.

Yes, it is all Hollywool Hollywood

I dont know if yall noticed...probably have if yall watched some old WWII shows in black and white and even some in color...but like a few nights ago i watched "Gallant Men" cause it came on after one of my fav. shows.."Combat" on Wed. nights...anyways...they were at their lines and a group of german planes came and attacked...and when it showed it at a distance one looked like a focke wolfe and the others ME-109s...well when it showed a closer shot it was a P-47 and a P-51D and a P-51B!!! [:0] They were painted german like colors and had the black iron cross on the side....i just had to laugh
Cause some shows do have the actuall planes theyre representing. Its kinda sad b/c if someone who knows nothing about WWII A/C and saw a P-51D being a german plane then if he saw another one as the American a/c it is..they would be very confused.....but i am aware that some American a/c were captured...like a P-38 I saw in a pic from the war.

There are actually a couple of points here:

First, documentaries and/or educational programs should be accurate, no ands, ifs, or buts. What good is education if what you are learning is wrong. Unfortunately, most people don't really want to learn so channels like Discovery, A&E, etc. don't have the budget to research properly and/or get proper footage if they don't have it. Also, because people don't want to learn, these channels can get away with their inaccuracies since people don't really care anyways. So what ends up happening, is instead of educational programming, it actually just ends up being entertainment under the disguise of education. Which brings up the second point.

As was mentioned already "you don't know, what you don't know." For purely entertainment purposes it really doesn't matter if it is entirely accurate or not. Most people don't want to/don't like to think and the majority of the population couldn't tell you the difference between any planes. (I have to call you on your stats there, nsclcctl. I find it very hard to believe that 98% of men could tell you the difference between an Avenger and a Corsair) So Hollywool, (I like that, Berny) promotes entertainment over accuracy and thus begins a vicious circle.

People don't care - Educational programs cheap out because - People don't care - Hollywool doesn't need to be accurate because - People don't care - etc. You know, I think I see a pattern here.

It's sad to see, but this is what our society has reduced us (well, maybe not us) to: a bunch of retards.

"Well, that's all I have to say about that." *in his best Forest Gump drawl* (which isn't very good at all)

Ray

A lot of it has to do with stock footage. The producer buys rights to air the clips. If they got a package "on the cheap," They may not have had enough "air time" of the correct aircraft about which they are talking. The producer may not want to spend the extra bucks for authenticity's sake, figuring that many in the viewing audience will not know the difference.

The Dumbing down occurs not because of people like us who are accused of being "anal", it is because of the people like them who say, "so what?" after we try to tell them what is what. Or that usual response "whatever."
Maybe it is because we sweat the small stuff and have that attention to detail gene?
I still get razed because I pointed out the modern ships in the background of the movie Pearl Harbor. It didn't take anything away from the "love story", maybe I was the dumb one, I thought it was about Pearl Harbor! I read some where that in editing the makers thought the modern ships made the background look better. . .so much for seeking advice eh?

Don

Pixilater
How about one of my favorite movies(really)"In Harms WaY". Near the end Kirk Douglas 'steals' a' Mitchell' to scout the oncoming Japanese fleet and he flies it from trhe copilots seat. That always brings a smile.

Nwilliams
insert snappy catch phrase here. I like that. When and if I ever get comfortable enough to start using a CP on my messages I'll use"I told you a million times,don't exaggerate"!

Teise

QUOTE: Originally posted by dkmacin The Dumbing down occurs not because of people like us who are accused of being "anal", it is because of the people like them who say, "so what?" after we try to tell them what is what. Or that usual response "whatever." Maybe it is because we sweat the small stuff and have that attention to detail gene? I still get razed because I pointed out the modern ships in the background of the movie Pearl Harbor. It didn't take anything away from the "love story", maybe I was the dumb one, I thought it was about Pearl Harbor! I read some where that in editing the makers thought the modern ships made the background look better. . .so much for seeking advice eh? Don

This post makes me thing about my signature line. Some director or other also said "god is in the details." That is one of the things that make a difference between a mediocre program, and a truly excellent one. I really love when I see that someone has gone the extra mile to include all the details for me. Even in entertainment, this can be vitally important, it's just that like one of you said, most people don't care.

If you have two programs, documentaries, movies, tv shows, whatever, that are exactly the same, except that one has all the attention to detail, and the other is just standard fare, people will be able to tell the difference in quality. Even if they can't quite put their finger on it, they would pick the detailed one over the average. This applies to just about everything, even models, show someone two models of the same plane, one hyperdetailed, the other just semi, people will always pick the hyperdetailed one, even though they might not be able to tell you why. The thing is, most people don't care and/or are too lazy to put that kind of work into anything, because putting details is work, you have to do it out of love.

madda

I wouldnt know the difference with some naval vessels if they shot a short vid clip on the screen that was different than the subject matter. Its not an interest of mine
Its all in the name of entertainment, unfortunately for the producers of such shows ,we believe in realism. I wouldnt have a clue about planes if not invloved in this hobby. I think if we saw mistakes in a drama or any TV show or movie it wouldnt rankle us as much as the "documentaries" which we rightfully assume should have real content.
We know the difference and should feel good about it. Then we should educate anyone who wants to listen and has a similar interest. Lets hope someone from these documentaries can get a little of this feedback and make more accurate films.
.

... Hey you all forgot to mention Top Gun - LOL
My favourites are
the cockpit scenes where you can see the ejector railing guide wheels - which are only visible when the ejection seat is OUT of the aircraft
and those Mig-28's

oh dear - 'nuff said

what about the film battle of the bulge? both sides in u.s. tanks fighting in a desert! on a slightly different note when it was the 50th anniverary of the dambusters raid there was a flypast over the ladybower dam which was used to practice on it was covered by the local news station (central) their reporter, marie ashby, watching 4 bulldogs fly over proudly said "here come 4 tucano SINGLE SEAT TRAINER!! aircraft. bad enough you might think but this was in front of richard todd,three 617 aircrew who were on the raid,modern day 617 aircrew and some other high ranking R.A.F. officers.i found it quite insulting that they sent someone who was more suited to "bubbles the cat stuck up a tree stories" and had obviously just been shown pictures of aircraft 10 minutes before the programme started. on the other hand the in film 633 squadron they actually bought about 9 mosquito,s of which 2 were destroyed as part of the plot, for real, they were actually non airworthy machines that were due to be scrapped

QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga [brThis post makes me thing about my signature line.

What does this post have to do with imaginary friends??

Ray

QUOTE: Originally posted by heylonghair QUOTE: Originally posted by maddafinga [brThis post makes me thing about my signature line. What does this post have to do with imaginary friends?? Ray

Well, they produce ww2 avaition doccumentaries, what else would I have meant?

madda