maxfax

Julez

Beautiful build! Which alclad aluminum did you use? I have a question for you about Future. I always have trouble spraying it on- it seems to be pebbly or uneven. I have used it 100% and diluted to 50% with alcohol, and no difference. I use a Testors airbrush with the little blue compressor, so I need to change nozzles for different applications, and I can't alter the airpressure, perhaps this may be the cause. Can you get an acrylic gloss in a rattle can?

Rob

Rob, I can only speculate but to me it sounds as if your not putting it on heavy enough, I use it straight out of the bottle and spray it at 18psi,a light coat to start with then after 15\20 min a heavy coat which i keep on sraying until it looks like it will run...The self flattening properties of future still impresses me even after years of use so if it looks really wet on the model then it should dry very smooth and flat enough for alclad....

Oh yeah on Mrs Bonnie i used alcad white aluminum for the base colour and picked out panels and control surfaces with duraluminum and aluminum.......Hope this helps mate

Daywalker

Gotta admit though...

While I am happy that I have found a technique that works, having to strip so many models is a bit of a bummer.

Yes Frank but, at least you have a way out if it does come to that with no worries!!! Always good to have a plan B!!!

Lots of great work happening here, the NMF craze has been rejuvenated (I know, saying "craze" where paint is concerned is tempting fate...) Today I began masking the Thunderjet, using thin slivers of Tamiya tape to outline the panels to remain in the current shade. This is going to take a fair while, several sessions to complete, I reckon.

I'm using Korea: the Air War by Nicholls and Thompson (Osprey, 1991) as my primary reference, and scoured the web for more shots, but there's precious few showing these planes from above or below. As a result, the wing and tail panels masked off will be whatever my guts tells me is reasonable based on the box photos and other modelers' work. The fuselage panels as show on the box faithfully follow the light and dark panel pattern seen in photographs, so I guess it's reasonable to assume they got the wing panels right as well.

More pics when there's something to see,

Mike/TB379

Thanks everyone for all your input on how to properly apply Alclad II. I'm doing a little experimenting while I'm waiting on the thinner to arrive so that I can strip the paint off my plane. Since I don't intend to install the fuel tanks, I going to use them to test 101 Aluminum adherence to different base coats. On one fuel tank the base coat is Future and on the other fuel tank the base coat is Plastikote Gray Sandable Primer. Both are curing now. I'll apply the 101 to both, let it cure, then put on some masking tape and see if it lifts the paint. The Alclad rep didn't think it would for either base coat, but I need to know for sure - I don't want to go through complete paint removal again! On my actual kit, I will top coat with Future before doing any masking. This little experiment is to simply see how well the Alclad adheres directly to the base coats. If I had some Krylon on hand, I'd experiment with it too.

Vetteman - Let me know if my build can be accepted into this GB. The plane was about 80% complete when the painting fiasco started. Stripping all the paint off makes it feel like I'm starting over, as the exterior paint scheme has proved to be the biggest challenge/effort of the build. (You might recall, I had a P-51 in the 1st GB, where I tried to strip paint but ruined the plastic beyond repair. This P-51 is my second attempt. I will persevere!) Make the call. I'm fine either way. If accepted, it's the 1/48th Revell P-51D done in the roughly 50% NMF / 50% green/yellow/red paint scheme.

Julez

Beautiful build! Which alclad aluminum did you use? I have a question for you about Future. I always have trouble spraying it on- it seems to be pebbly or uneven. I have used it 100% and diluted to 50% with alcohol, and no difference. I use a Testors airbrush with the little blue compressor, so I need to change nozzles for different applications, and I can't alter the airpressure, perhaps this may be the cause. Can you get an acrylic gloss in a rattle can?

Rob

NiceFit

 

NiceFit:

 

Btw, I shared my predicament with Alclad. If they respond with anything interesting, I will post their response here.

 

 

fyi... here's what I got back: "The Gloss Black is optimized for the high shine finishes (chrome,polished aluminium stainless steel airframe aluminium) which need a very shiny surface-the other finishes,including aluminium adhere better to grey primer type base coats.I've advised other modellers who have been in the same situation to lightly scuff the black with 6000 micromesh."

NiceFit, With alclad i sand the entire surface of the model as smooth as possible and then add a layer of future before putting down the alclad and then another coat of future after to protect it all....I've never had any problems with this method.....

Well so i don't post for 24 hours and the builds take off...Wow

Richard, Jeremy, Max, Stik, Thunderbolt......Way to go guys

Frank, thanks for the tutorial on stripping, got an old zero that needs to be stripped....

Rob, Awesome Mustang

Sneak peek......my 98% finished Pony...

Guys, great work all around. I esp love your P-51 Lancair.

I suppose my P-38 is probably closer to 75% finished so I won't be entering her here. I've learned a great deal from this GB and the previous so crossing my fingers I'll have her posted on the aircraft forum sometime this summer.

If she turns out well I have a pile of other NM subjects to do when I get some other GBs cleared off my workbench. I have to admit Kermit's B-17 leaves me sorely tempted to start work on my Minicraft 1/72 B-29......

Good luck and clear skies gentlemen...

vetteman42

Stikpusher You KNOW huh LOL you are in and welcome back

Thank you Vette... Well here is my carryover F-84E from the NMF Pt I. I just was never able to get it quite finished although as of now I fell I am pretty close.

I am done painting the NMF. I used three different shades of Aluminum. Humbrol overall first, a nice weathered dull dark shade, then I masked off and used Tamiya, a much brighter shade on the center of the wings, stabilizers, tail, and some select panes on the front and rear fuselage. Then I used Testors small bottle, a shade in between the two, on the elevators, ailerons, drop tank pylons, rudder, and two panels on the nose. The effect I was trying for was like the old Chromed Hawk kits I used to build. The effect did not photograph well, but is quite visible in person.

Here is my WIP of my 1/48 P-47 D. Cockpit components painted and will put them together soon- will be a little challenge to route all the wiring behind the panel- the back appears to be visible when placed in the fuselage. I tried to make my own belts using wire and Tamiya tape- turned out OK, I think.

Rob

NiceFit

Lancair,

Nice looking Mustang! You must be proud. May I ask how you painted the nose cone? Did you paint it yellow then dip it in red paint? If so, you must have a steady hand and perfect aim.

Thanks for the compliments guys

I painted the entire spinner yellow, then I put it on my surface plate and using a pencil, drew a line around it, followed by careful masking to that line and red paint.

Cheers

NiceFit

Btw, I shared my predicament with Alclad. If they respond with anything interesting, I will post their response here.

fyi... here's what I got back: "The Gloss Black is optimized for the high shine finishes (chrome,polished aluminium stainless steel airframe aluminium) which need a very shiny surface-the other finishes,including aluminium adhere better to grey primer type base coats.I've advised other modellers who have been in the same situation to lightly scuff the black with 6000 micromesh."

Oooh... Not to mention that gorgeous IP... must say im really impressed with that one (and happy to have just posted my 500th post...)

Richard

Well done indeed! Thats a terrific mustang. Noseart is nice too LOL. Really crisp and clean, nice weathering; not overdone, not underdone. Great masking work on the prop (i take it you masked it instead of dipping it...). Congrats on a fine model!

Richard

Lancair,

Nice looking Mustang! You must be proud. May I ask how you painted the nose cone? Did you paint it yellow then dip it in red paint? If so, you must have a steady hand and perfect aim.

My P-51D is complete.  Covered with kitchen foil except for the wings.

The office

Cheers

Jmabx,

WOW,... Thats pretty darn impressive. Wish i had the guts to do that kind of drastic stuff to a model i was building LOL. I am pretty sure you will overcome your problems and end up building a great model. Scariest thing i ever did was cutting the flaps from a wildcat to pose them in the open position... Way to go!

Now that my little chrome experiment is over i returned to the hobby bench and managed to get some work done myself:

Some seams, especially the part with the top turret on it will need some extra attention before i start spraying.... It just would NOT fit right... Nothing too bad though...

Also started some wing work, still needs filling and touching up:

Thanks for looking and see ya soon

Richard

Nice little tutorial on stripping the paint Frank.

Some great work here so far fellas!

I managed to get a start on my XF-91 and, so far, things aren't going as planned.

I want to replace the nose with the nose from a Tamiya F-84 kit, so I started by marking my cut and taking the saw to it...

Here's the new F-84 nose mocked up next to the XF-91 nose...

By my measurements, this thing was supposed to be a perfect fit, so I cut the nose off of the XF-91 and that's where things went wrong. What I neglected to take into consideration was the shape of the two pieces. The XF-91 has a round profile looking at it head on where the F-84 is kind of oval shape. Not good! What I ended up doing was gluing the nose back on the XF-91 and adding the nose ring and intake trunking from the F-84. I wanted the whole nose from the F-84 so that I could use the cockpit also but instead I just used some sprue to make a mounting point for the F-84 cockpit.

And here's the new nose job... and some scars too! What have I gotten myself into?!

Next order of business is to find her an engine!

Sorry for all the pics!

Daywalker, I just ordered the thinner from Sprue Brothers Models (thanks for the tip) and will remove the paint using cotton swabs. I will not soak the model. Yes, I do believe the thinners attacked the plastic then bonded the lint to the plastic.

It is a bummer you've had to strip so many kits. I guess I can't complain since this will be my first.

Btw, I shared my predicament with Alclad. If they respond with anything interesting, I will post their response here.

NiceFit

Let me ask another question. With previous attempts at removing paint (with lacquer thinners, mineral spirits, and even diluted mineral spirits) I found that as I was wiping off the paint some type of "lint" would stick to the plastic. This happened with both paper towels and low-linting rags. I gather that you don't encounter that with your process? 

That sounds like the thinner was attacking the plastic itself- not good!  I have not had this happen while using the Mr. Levelling thinner.  In fact, the surface of the plastic is much smoother than it was before I painted it the first time!  The thinner will remove lacquers, enamels, acrylics, decals, clearcoats, everything!  Like I said, I don't know if soaking the model in it would cause it to attack the surface, but dipping a cotton bud in the thinner, then rubbing it over the surface and allowing it to work for a minute or two, then scrubbing the paint out of the panel lines, and finally wiping it off does not hurt the plastic.  I have stripped my F-16, another F-16 cockpit, a Tamiya Corsair, a Tamiya Zero, a Hasegawa 109, and some other detail parts with this method- works a charm!

Gotta admit though...

While I am happy that I have found a technique that works, having to strip so many models is a bit of a bummer.

kermit

Nicefit,

Probably a stupid question but did you spray/ brush an "inbetween" coat of future or the likes? I used to screw up all my NMF jobs too. Somehow metal paint just doesn't like to be masked...

Kermit - Not a stupid question. I did not spray an "in between" coat. The Alclad website did not indicate this was necessary. But if that's what it takes...

Daywalker, yes - that does help. Thank you! I'll try the Mr. Gunze and the Krylon. (I think it's odd that Alclad own primer doesn't work - weird!).

Let me ask another question. With previous attempts at removing paint (with lacquer thinners, mineral spirits, and even diluted mineral spirits) I found that as I was wiping off the paint some type of "lint" would stick to the plastic. This happened with both paper towels and low-linting rags. I gather that you don't encounter that with your process? 

Thanks, Frank -- I'm hoping this beastie will look the part when the varied tones, decals and panel wash are done.

I'm very interested in the stripping technique you've described, too. I've never stripped a project, basically I've never had to -- except for one that's been bugging me, an unfinished F-4U-1D I was working on for the last Corsair GB. The enamels orange-peeled badly, and I tried multiple coats of clear acrylic to even it out, but it's not satisfactory. It's been on the shelf ever since, and stripping it is a whole new ballgame for me. I'm not sure we can get the Gunze "Mr" range in this country, but I can check around. You say this thinner will break down everything, even laquer? So, as laquer is chemically hotter than enamels, it should lift the enamel?

Interesting, to say the least!

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Nicefit,

Probably a stupid question but did you spray/ brush an "inbetween" coat of future or the likes? I used to screw up all my NMF jobs too. Somehow metal paint just doesn't like to be masked...

Using a thin coat of future inbetween layers solved this for me as well as sufficient drying time for all layers. Also it helps to first stick the masking tape on your arm once oir twice to reduce the stickyness of it

So... No harm done. Deep breath....a smoke... count till ten and get back inthere

Richard

Great looking F-84 Mike, can't wait to see it with the toned panels!

Dobby- I have never personally tried the Alclad black basecoat, but have heard of others having trouble with it.  IIRC, they ended up using Krylon rattle-can black as a base instead.

As far as stripping the model, I have done that MANY times- probably 6 of them in the past year.  My suggestion is to get some Gunze Mr. Levelling thinner (available at Sprue Bros) and some cotton swabs.  The thinner will take off any paint I have used (including lacquers) and will not harm the plastic if cleaned off with a rag or swab.  I don't know if it would attack it if the model were soaked in it.  However, dipping cotton buds in it and rubbing off the paint will work well.  It also has the effect of "buffing" the plastic to a bit of a sheen.  I did this a couple of weeks ago on a Tamiya F-16, which had a lacquer primer coat, many layers of Tamiya acrylics, Future coats, and flat coats.  It's messy, but it works.

Some parts done, waiting to start the airframe...

Halfway through...

Ready for another go at it!

Hope that helps!

Ok, I bummed with my 2nd attempt to apply Alclad II 101 Aluminum over the 305 Gloss Black Base. The aluminum paint just won't stick and easily lifts off underneath areas masked with Scotch Painters Tape for Delicate Surfaces. The black base is adhering to the plane. It's the aluminum that won't stick to the base. Both the black base and the aluminum were adequately stirred and shaken. What am I doing wrong?

This is the 2nd P-51D Mustang kit that I've ruined. On my first kit, I thought I hadn't properly removed all the Novus Plastic Polish but now realize that was not the problem since the black base was adhering to the polished areas. I don't understand why the 101 isn't adhering to the 305. The Alclad website indicates the black base is an appropriate primer.

I don't believe the plane(s) can be saved without striping all the paint. Techniques I seen for striping paint would involve soaking the whole plane in a solvent. Obviously, this would also strip the cockpit and other detailed areas.

This is sad. The finish on both planes was looking so good and the planes were so close to completion.

Hi Randy and all,

I have a modicum of progress to report on my F-84, I got back to it after many months and this evening did the experiment I was meaning to, "cutting back" the enamels to even out the finish. You need to go very gently and know when enough is enough, suiting your technique to the contours. I used 2000-grit paper, well lubricated, and polished the plane all over, piece by piece. It seemed to work quite well, well enough that I can see my trying it again in future.

Next I'll be masking off panels to remain in this shade, and mixing a brighter metallic for the rest. That coat should be cut back too, then the surface carefully washed, ready for the antiglare panel to be masked and sprayed as the last main colour area.

Cheers, Mike/TB379

Yes, I think that Jug is looking very good indeed!  Some very nice work from looking at the photo, and tiny too!

As for lacquers over acrylics, you can get away with it if you are very careful.  When I spray Alclad lacquers, I usually put them over a basecoat of Tamiya X-1 gloss black acrylics without trouble.  As long as the Alclad coats are sprayed on very thin, no worries.

However, their "chrome" is a much hotter paint, and will attack just about anything underneath it except lacquers.

Yes, ive seen it sort of melt on a model awhile back. This particular spraycan paint is dry to the touch in 15 minutes or so and i spray it on with my AB so my guess it had too little time to get agressive... Not sure either but hey,... it worked LOL

Richard

Kermit acrylic under lacquer ? That doesnt seem a good idea to me and may be some of the problem, I would think the lacquer would attack the acrylics. I also use lacquer thinner to clean my AB every now and then to get all the acrylic goop out of it works really well too.  Many moons ago I used to paint motorcycle gas tanks with lacquer and only used enamel under the lacquers with no problems other than having to be careful of temptures. If it was too cold out and the lacquer couldn't cure fast enough it would attack the enamel base coat ( primer) and orange peel. Do you think this could be the trouble ? I am no expert ya know.

What paint do you use as an undercoat ?

Thats the whole problem... Eager as i was to play with the airbrushed chrome paint i sprayed a revell acrylic gloss black undercoat that was a tad too thick, causing little dried up bits while spraying. Second mistake was to brush on the future instead of spraying. I usually do it that way with good results but it's really true: the more shiny you get, the more evident your tiniest flaw will show later.

A word of caution though about working with laquer based paints: they are really thin so it is very easy to spray too much and get paint runs. Found that out in the past and learned from it since then. Actually the decanted paint is ready for airbrushing straight out of the can once the gas is out of the paint.

Soo.... i think i've got the technique down but i need to be more patient with the B17 later on

Richard