P-38 Lightning group build - Are we there yet???

Thanks Vance. Looking forward to seeing the detail you have going on.

Tonight I did some paint fading and painted and weathered the superchargers. There's four different colors on them, all but the base being basically filters. I hate trying to get burnt metal to look right and I'm not to sure I like these. I'll look at them tomorrow and see what I think. Beyond that it's about time to start decals.

I've been studying the subject while waiting for supplies I ordered to show, there aren't many hobby shops around here and the selection is sparce. Trumpeters 1/32 p-38L has both engines but does not allow for display of them. I've found several pictures online showing the engine exposed on the real thing, but I'm leary to cut up the kit.

whats worse is the rear engine bulkhead is to close to the engine and will need to be moved back closer to the wheel well to match reference photos. So i've started to assemble some sub assemblies while I consider my options

here is a shot of one of the engines before painting.

after placing this assembly it would be a shame to hide this kinda detail forever it could be time to find my razor saw

UTS I'm glad you decided to join in. That Trumpeter kit is really tempting me and it will be nice to see how it goes together and builds up. And you're right, it would be a shame to hide those engines. Break out the saw!

Tony

UTS - time for the saw baby!! Yes, it would be a shame to cover both of those up, even if there are some accuracy issues - we won't tell anyone.

I mentioned in my post last night that I may be making more work than needed with my structure-building... It just hit me this morning - instead of building these sections up with a real criss-cross framework I could have just sketched out the pattern on a piece of styrene sheet & boxed that in from either side - . Next time I guess!

All--I have the P-38 J glued together.  A couple of photos are attached.  There were no major fit problems with the Minicraft kit.  The biggest issue was the rear joint of the engine nacels to the booms.  Some big gaps there but they filled nicely with thick CA and microballons.  The main gear wells are a bit dodgy too but shouldn't be too visible when the gear doors go on.  I just hope I have enough weight in the nose.  Test balancing tells me it may be close.  I have put weight in the noses of the drop tanks just in case.  Still waiting for the Mr Surfacer 500 to finish the seams in the nose.

hkshooter--What is the color for you camo?  I have been trying to get a brownish color like that with limited success,

Hugh, that's Model Master enamel Olive Drab, FS34087. In all truth it could be a little more brown than it is but I like it and prefer it to most other brands of olive drab. It's sprayed over light gray primer and in those pics it has a heavy coat of Future on it.

Tonight I did some more exhaust work and installed them. Exhaust stains were applied and the decaling started. Still havent got my UC wheels yet and am getting impatient. Soon I'll be done with it but for the wheels.

Clebode,  Looks like you got it all put together real nice.  Now the fun stuff starts!

hk, How did you approach the turbo chargers?  I hope I'm right calling by that name(on top of the booms).  I took an approach that they are heavily distressed metal.  I worked in MM Gunmetal and Rust.  Once dry I've started brushing in pastels to try to find an oxidized look to the turbo chargers.  I'm also working in heavy pastels along the booms to show the severely weathered look along the tops of the booms.  I'll show some pics soon.

I kind of stumbled upon a good technique to paint the wheels if you do them by brush which I usually do.  I put some True Details wheels on this aircraft.  As you all know painting that line between the rim and the rubber is very difficult.  Well I did this.  I painted the dark areas in the spokes and then painted the metal rims aluminum.  I then painted the wheels Testor's Rubber.  It's a good color, and I've tried many.   The True Detail wheels have a deep crevice between the metal and the rubber.  I looked down in there and realized that I couldn't paint one color without touching the other.  So, I thinned the Rubber colored paint enough to allow it to be "runny".  I touched the thinned paint down near the rim and allowed it to wick around the rim, giving a nice smooth edge.  I'll remember that technique in the future.  Rick.

Wabashwheels

Clebode,  Looks like you got it all put together real nice.  Now the fun stuff starts!

...So, I thinned the Rubber colored paint enough to allow it to be "runny".  I touched the thinned paint down near the rim and allowed it to wick around the rim, giving a nice smooth edge.  I'll remember that technique in the future.  Rick.

Good call Rick. I almost always brush paint the wheels as well, I've used this same method for years, "washing" that divider area, then coming back with the final brush coat after the first has dried.

I use both brush and airbrush painting on my wheels. I'm not sure what is the determining factor of which I use, it just happens. If the wheel is big enough I like to use the airbrush. I'll paint the wheel first then use a circle cutter to make masks for the wheel and spray the tire.
If the wheel is to small for my circle cutter to make a mask for I'll spray the wheel first then brush the tire.
I've used that Testors rubber color before but rarely use it anymore. I think it's to brown for synthetic rubber and now mix a drop of neutral gray with some black to get a charcoal color for my tires. I adjust the gray for subject or time frame and era the a/c came from/operated in.

The exhausts/turbo chargers.
I started with a base of MM Burnt Metal. This was followed by a filter (90% thinner, 10% paint) of a very lightly misted MM leather. Over this was sprayed another filter of Tamiya RLM gray, leaving the joints of the exhaust pipe alone and applying the mist to the pipe and super charger turbine only. This was followed by a heavier mist (75% thinner, 25% paint) of MM Sand over the turbine and overboost pipe only.
Once these were installed I used the Sand again to extend the exhaust staining out onto the top of the boom very lightly. This is the base and the larger area of the exhaust. Inside this I sprayed a filter of neutral gray to give the stain a leaded look. And finally, right immediately aft of and including the over boost pipe I sprayed a filter of Tamiya flat brown (XF-63? Need to go check) in a small area starting at the pipe and tapering back over the boom a very short distance.
Sounds complicated but it's not really. I just look at photos and combine that with my own experience to try and get the right depth of color to the stain. Exhausts, to me, can make or break a build so I go to ridiculous effort to try and get them right, including spending extra bucks for resin or Moskit pipes. To my knowledge nobody makes resin exhausts and turbo chargers for the P-38 though.

Here's an example. The P-38 stains arent quite as pronounced as these. Pics I've seen of P-38s seem to show much more lead staining that most other planes so I backed off of the brown tones.

I'm at the point where it's time for a photo update but the plane is half way through decaling and still don't have any wheels. I don't feel it's an appropriate photo time for the build but I'll get there soon enough and post some pics.

hkshooter

Exhausts, to me, can make or break a build so I go to ridiculous effort to try and get them right, including spending extra bucks for resin or Moskit pipes. To my knowledge nobody makes resin exhausts and turbo chargers for the P-38 though.

I agree with you about exhausts...especially when they're prominent a la the P-51, Spitfire, 109, etc. That's one thing that's always bugged me about the P-47. Such a tank of a plane, very little exhaust staining. Boo!

Just curious, have you tried using Alclad versus the Metalizer? I'm a huge fan of Alclad's Exhaust Manifold as a base. 

I find the last two posts exhausting...

A little more time on my Lightning last night, (much to Manny's disappointment I'm sure, but when my brain is focused on something I'd better just ride it out!) So, a fair amount of work that doesn't translate into much by just looking at the pics, but here they are.

Alright, there is officially no going back now, the flap-ectomy portion of this build has been done. I'm leaving the ailerons in place (but nearly cut through) until the wing halves are together. The new edges have been cleaned up with a sanding stick, but I may still need to thin that trailing edge some.

All of the tiny little structure sections have now been glued into place, there are still a few gaps that I will have to fill with putty, then sand the area to blend.

I've been saying "control surfaces" all along, but really only considering the wings. I was packing up last night & I realized that I probably should deflect the rudders as well....

So, tonight = cleaning up flap areas, and probably wheel well plumbing.

Spotted an interesting pic this morning... "P-38 Lightnings and P-51 Mustangs loaded on the flight deck of a CVE (small aircraft carrier,escort carrier) at the New York Port of Embarkation."

And how about a closeup of an F5, "Sgt. Thomas Bowen servicing the F-5 named "Super Snooper" at an airfield in Eschwege,Germany on April 14,1945."

Great bunch of pics at this Flikr address: http://www.flickr.com/photos/18532986@N07/sets/72157607350596374/with/4981496678/

Hey Vance.. good work! looking sweet!

Everyone else, is looking sweet to!!

I'm still debating my next -38....humm,,,,

Doogs I've never tried the Alclad for exhausts. I have eight of the Alclad colors but none of the exhaust colors. The LHS don't carry Alclad and Hobbytown is almost three hours away. Last time I was there they didn't have those colors either.
I may have to include them on one of my two anual online supply orders this year.

Vance, that's gonna look cool, man. How are you going to replicate the tracks the flaps ride on?

Well, the plan* is very small bits of sheet styrene, with the "groove" painted in rather than actually hollowed out, and some thin brass rod for the actuators mounted directly to the side edges of what I just cut out (because I've lost some width now right) and then a cap of sheet styrene on either end. I may have to make the actual flap itself a little thicker too. Actually kind of hard to come across pics of the flaps deployed, I suppose due to the fact that they weren't normally deployed while on the ground. I'm just guessing that the upper surface of the flap would keep the same rivet pattern as the lower portion. I've decided to stick to interior green for most exposed areas, but I'm thinking that this may look too odd on the flaps, maybe I should use that neutral gray I've seen in some pics... thoughts anyone??

* This plan is subject to change at any point during the process!!

I think the interior of the wings and flap area was left bare metal but I'm looking for a definitive answer.

I don't know how crazy you want to go with the project so take this for what it's worth.
The internal structure where the flap retracts isn't flat like you've depicted but rather has a relief in each rib that's shaped like the forward edge of the flap. When the flaps are retracted they plug into and are supported by this structure. If you replicated this it would add a lot of interest to the open forward space inside the wing where the flaps retract into.
I think your idea of a single retraction rod will look good. The rest of the operating mechanism is internal in the wing and cannot be seen.
There's a flaps indicator that protrudes through the skin on top of the wing so the pilot has a visual verification that the flaps are retracted or not. You may want to include this tiny detail since it can be seen and the flaps will be down.

hkshooter

I think the interior of the wings and flap area was left bare metal but I'm looking for a definitive answer...

...the internal structure where the flap retracts isn't flat like you've depicted but rather has a relief in each rib that's shaped like the forward edge of the flap...

...flaps indicator...

Bare metal would probably make more sense than the green - let me know if you find anything that shows that upper side, no luck here yet. The rib relief I'll have to look into as well. Flaps indicator! I'll check out some pics & compare to the panel lines etc. on the upper surface of my kit for the location. There have been several details that I have realized are actually quite accurate, so it may actually be there somewhere.

I have some pages from the Maintenence and Erection manual in pdf format. Anyone know how I can cut pages from the pdf file and load them to photobucket as a pic?

hmmm - not easily, I think you'd have to convert the pages to a jpg before uploading. ( Which I can do using Photoshop, one of my "work tools"! ) If it's too large for email you can transfer it my way using "yousendit.com". I can pm you with my yahoo address if you want to try it.

Vance, I you are interested in the pages I'll do that. PM your mail. I'll see if I can just email you the file too. It's 7MB and I'll have to see if my email will allow a file that size as an attachment.

For photo's check this site out. They are putting photo's from the National Archives online. I filtered it for P-38's.

http://www.footnote.com/search.php?query=p-38&f_ancestor_id=28439236&df_ancestor_id=Within%3AWWII+US+Air+Force+Photos

Mike

We could be heading towards information overload soon - amazing! I'll have to settle in with a cup of coffee & check those photos out too, thanks Mike,

I've been reading through the manual but have found a section missing from my file. It stops at page 487 and begins again at 521. At page 510, according to the index, is where I think painting and color information is supposed to be. Not much help about the color of the wing interior here.

This link isn't much help but if you read it right it suggests that the area where the flaps retract could be neutral gray on camo planes.

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/02/stuff_eng_interior_colours_us_part2.htm

Do you know how to do a screen capture? Open your pdf file to the page you want, press the *print screen* button on your keyboard, open whatever image editor you use(even Microsoft Paint will work), open a new blank image, press Ctrl  V to paste (you may have to click inside the new document somewhere or even right click and paste), crop out the unwanted portions and save. Then upload to photobucket. Will work for anything you can see on your monitor.

SSS. Still sanding seams.

Tony

OK, this is getting pretty old. About a week or week and a half ago I started getting email notices about replies to this thread. I always uncheck that stupid box when I post. I've been back through and edited every post I've made in this thread two different times to make sure all the boxes are unchecked and I'm still getting notices. That ain't easy either because every time you click on *Return to thread* it takes you back to the first page. At least that's what it does to me.

Vance, I know you can't edit or fix it and I'm not fussing at you. Is this happening to anyone else?

Tony

PS...email reply box is unchecked...

argh - screen capture. Good call Tony. See, my brain is just making work for itself right now!! I haven't seen any emails for new post notifications. I know my profile is set up to notify me of new PMs. I'll take a look at my info & see if anything comes to mind. You may have to check in with the "authorities" on this one, sounds like a glitch of some kind.

I've never done that before, Tony. It's not working here at work. This machine has vista. I'll try it tonight at home on my machine, it's running XP.

You could also click on the "Stop emailing me" line at the top of the page(s) in the thread.

P-38 Update - Got her all sanded and ready for paint.  Now I have to play the hurry up and wait game with the weather.  Have to go outside of my apt. and airbrush and it hasn't been above 50 degrees for over two weeks.  Don't like painting in temperatures below 50.

I finally got impatient today and emailed Ultracast. They say the order shipping on the 4th, the day after they charged me for it. And that it should be here any day. Can ya tell I'm getting impatient? Does it really show that bad?

I normally order stuff like this ahead of time instead of when I need it but this time I remained indecisive for to long. C'mon mail man!!!!

Forget watching for dogs, your local postman will need to keep the spray ready for a resin-starved model builder...