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The group build to end all group builds - THE GREAT WAR

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Wednesday, July 20, 2011 9:11 PM

Bondman, ships from that era - late 1890's to 1910 is so fascinating, good looking build.

PW, outstanding painting/weathering job! I wished that have one of those in 1/48.

  • Member since
    March 2006
Posted by TD4438 on Thursday, July 21, 2011 6:20 PM

Nice job on the Mk.I PW.

An excellant rendition of the Emden,bondoman. Toast The Iron Duke would be more than happy to sink her! Big Smile

  • Member since
    October 2009
Posted by PANZERWAFFE on Sunday, July 24, 2011 6:24 PM

MARC - Your comments are always greatly appriciated. great group build, I will be checking in to see the progress of the other builds. If I'm able to get my hands on a Whippet I may just put it in before the GB ends. 

WAIKONG - Thanks for your comments, you still have the best prop I've seen!

TD4438 - Thanks for the comments!

Rob

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Florida
Posted by STFD637 on Monday, July 25, 2011 6:54 PM

Hey guys,

Wow I have been following this build as much as I can but the pages got built up quick. I have been hammering away at my other GB, but I did take some time out to get one of these little guys done. One quick correction 2 of my kits are Encore and not Roden.

This is the Dr. 1 from Encore. It was one of the econo kits I got from squadron for $4...I think. So far it has been fun. Little tweaks here and there. The detail for this little guy is amazing. I will let the pics show that. The hardest problem I had was matching the colors up. I went with a Tamiya RLM grey for upper surfaces and cockpit (minus the floor board and seat). I am going to us Tamiya light blue for underside of wings. After it is all togethter I will the "Streaks" with some Gunze RLM greens. Hope it all works. This is my first WWI kit.

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The wood is done with Vallejo paints. They actually worked great. Still working. More pics to come!

 

"If a lie is told often, and long enough, it becomes reality!"

Travis/STFD637

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  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Tuesday, July 26, 2011 6:00 AM

Can't see the pics Travis.

Marc  

  • Member since
    June 2009
  • From: Florida
Posted by STFD637 on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 8:21 AM

Lets try this again!

[View:/themes/fsm/utility/Photobucket:550:0]

[View:/themes/fsm/utility/Photobucket:550:0][View:/themes/fsm/utility/Photobucket:550:0]

"If a lie is told often, and long enough, it becomes reality!"

Travis/STFD637

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  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco Bay Area
Posted by bufflehead on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 11:58 PM

PANZERWAFFE

http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad352/PANZERI/MK%20IV%20Male/DSC00065.jpg

 

Rob - WOW!  What a great looking Mark IV Male!! YesYes  You really knocked one out of the park with this Great War steel beast!  I love your paint job and weathering....everything is first rate!  Now I have something to aspire to when I work on my Emhar Whippet a little bit later! Big Smile

wing_nut - I'm still here, haven't forgotten about the GB!  I have to finish up a couple of existing GB before I jump into this one!  Give me at least another month before you start seeing some WIP photos from me!Whistling

Ernest

Last Armor Build - 1/35 Dragon M-26A1, 1/35 Emhar Mk.IV Female

     

Last Aircraft Builds - Hobby Boss 1/72 F4F Wildcat & FW-190A8

     

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Philadelphia PA
Posted by smeagol the vile on Thursday, July 28, 2011 12:02 PM

How did I miss that?  Panzerwaffe, that Tank is a beaute!

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Wednesday, August 3, 2011 5:29 AM

WingNut

If you don't mind, I would like to like to withdraw my Emher tank and replace it with the ICM Konig kit. I'll give general impressions and if there's any interest I'll add some WIP. No problem either way but it was ship time for me. I try to cycle plane, tank and ship. In practice because ships take a little longer they might slighted in the sequence. The result, no doubt, will mean I won't get any good at any of them, but each allows some neat history tripping and that's important to my modeling.

 

The Kit:

ICM is a Ukranian company that has gotten some fine notices on recent efforts. This kit doesn't quite qualify, coming out in 2000. There are about 500 parts and it is pretty complex. It has gotten decent notices at Model Warship because the people there are remarkably good and like model warships. And it is a styrene 350 scale WWI German Battleship. (Why not British? Who knows, but winners don't get modeled often - see the absence of CV-6 Enterprise in 350: we're talking the most successful warship in world history. Zvezda: the Russian great hope, is coming out with Dreadnaught, a ship with a very famous name and no operational achievements. It is, however, a WWI battleship. Odd that the warships of the late 19th and very early 20th century are better represented than those of the First World War.)  If one searches closely you can find horror stories about the kit's bad fits on mission critical components. I've never done a 350 and have a Hasegawa Mikasa & Yukikase, a Dragon Laffey, an Academy Graf Spee, a Tamiya Fletcher and a Trumpeter San Francisco in that scale. I thought I'd start with an old ICM. For reasons known only to the Creator half of my kits have been made in Eastern Europe and each has had its own special adventure: I am expecting more. The kit appears to be nicely molded and preliminary dry fits are okay. There's also a lot of excess plastic sticking around in all sorts of places.

Extras: I have White Ensign's PE set and some metal barrels for the main guns (inbound). The PE is actually fairly easy (if you think rails and ladders are easy) unless you walk the extra mile and then they become insane. For this kit I will be using Tamiya paints. I cycle paint types too, and have grown very fond of artist acrylics and mediums and other water based paints like Vallejo. But I've got Tamiya bottles galore and its time to use them. So far they are a delight.

I know there are gents out there that don't like ships. I do. Anyone that doesn't like a battleship is probably a tree hugger. I won't say that ships are harder than other models - a master modeler can making anything both complex and easy. However, for mortals, ships do pose some special problems. First, more than armor, ships are modular. Ship fans know this and thus ignore the "play by play" found in the instructions. ICM's instructions are ok (I much prefer crude to incorrect) but like most ships they will help you construct the kit in an orderly manner and leave you in a very bad way if you decide to paint the kit. But as we all know, painting modules will leave problems here and there to fix later. The better you plan the attack the less fixing will be required. The ship model heroes take this granted while the mortals find out the hard way.

You're hit with four problems that don't lend themselves to easy solution. First is the deck. Konig has a wooden deck. Unless you really love masking, you will paint the deck early. But how to modulate the color of a 28" long deck? ICM has raised planking (all my more modern kits are recessed). To get a helter-skelter shading you could make do with pastels etc or irregular colored areas. Or you could try to mask each plank individually with graphic tape (1/32" wide) and paint the deck three or four different colors. Or you can try to color the raised planks with a kind of wash and hope the lines keep the colors in-line. Haven't made up my mind, but that will be one of the first decisions. A good deck could make or break the kit. (I did come up with a cracker-jack base coat made of Tamiya deck tan, buff, white and flesh.)

Ships will probably need some kind of surgery. A guy from the Fatherland last week discovered that the ICM kit has funnels slightly too thick and they cramp the mid-turret. He has a good solution: cut everything above the deck in half and reassemble. Hmmm....or move the mid-turret to an angle and nobody will notice. (I chose option B.) The bridge will need a gash sawed out and some stock inserted to emulate an open bridge: that can be managed. (And if one manages it, you could put in some PE bridge instruments that will invisible no matter what.) Masts are a question. Even a large ship in 350 has very fragile top masts. Some folk live with a fragile universe. Some replace them with brass. I think I'll do that.

A ship must be rigged. But with what? Stretched sprue would work great if you kept plastic masts: it's a little less ideal with metal masts because something like Tamiya cement is out. CA or PVA. (Same problem comes up with railing.) Konig will need a fair amount of rigging. I'm thinking of mono, but sprue does work. And maybe some very thin wire for some stuff. We'll see. One build option is a no-brainer. If I wanted Konig to be in her Jutland configuration it would need a different mast (bought one from WEM) and a torpedo net. After examining the PE (over 100 davits the size of an ant's eyeball to support two shelves for the nets which you have to build yourself) it was obvious that I'll go for the post-Jutland version that did away with the nets completely. I seriously think that it would double the build time to assemble and rig the torpedo nets. Hardly worth it for devices that proved worthless in the war.

Weathering. Ship modeling presents the modeler with a problem without an obvious solution. Most people on this board model military subjects. A cursory look at photos or the real deal shows that military subjects show wear in a way that my Honda Accord does not. If you're looking at a weapon used in war, the more the harsh conditions will show up. (Throw grenades my way if you like, but I think most models even done by gents far more talented than yours truly are under weathered. Obviously one can postulate conditions that this would not be true. But if you want to model something that's been in the "thick of it", it's going to show.) But models are also display objects. It is tempting and possibly historically appropriate, to model something out the factory door. (If I ever do a Pea Shooter it will be gloss and almost no weathering.) Recently my roommate and I drove back from St. Paul to Berkeley. We drove into a small town that had a M-48 tank in the park. Although the beast was about 100 feet away, I had to point it out: maybe she's more used to tanks than I think. (Always surprising how many secrets exist inside a long marriage.) Anyway, you don't have a tank at most gas stations and I pointed it out. Her comment - "It's cleaner than yours." She was referring to my last effort - a very heavily weathered KV-2. She was right natch (natch) but the tank in Idaho hadn't come from the battle of Moscow. So the problem is making a nice display object or something that represents weapons in battle. When you spend weeks (or several months by the hard core) this problem is tripled. A WWI battleship is a very pretty ship, and at 350 scale it's big enough for people to see it. It is so tempting to follow the path of many ship modelers and do a "commission day" model. At fifteen feet away, where most people will see it, it would look great. But it wouldn't look like Konig in 1917. Under-weather the kit and it will look better. Be true to history and it's going to look pretty shabby. We'll see.

Eric

Below are the basics of the kit and how real decks look and are modeled: more to follow:

 

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Wednesday, August 3, 2011 9:55 PM

I'm excited about your project. That kit certainly is good enough to use as a basis for any level you want to take it to.

 

Here's a couple of thoughts your post "inspired".

I have a lot of success, at least I think, with painting the planks by hand. I start by painting the whole ting a base color, either a warm gray or a wood tan. If you round up four or five tan colors and put a puddle of each on a palette, then take a good thin pointed brush and a metal straight edge. Just hold the straight edgea 1/4" or so above the deck, and carefully lay down 30' long lines. i do a bunch of one color, then on to the next, and so forth. In less than an hour the deck looks pretty darn good. I've tried the micro tape method once, and I was unsuccessful. I left it on too long and it left residue when removed that was impossible to get rid of. others make it work.

I rig with uni caenis mono. It is only .002, which at 1/350 is a 3/4" cable, pretty realistic. It's so thin that it takes a knot very nicely.

You have a nice stash. You will like the CA-38. It has really classic lines too.

 

Best of luck,

 

Bill

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2009
Posted by PANZERWAFFE on Saturday, August 6, 2011 11:50 AM

ERNEST, SMEAGOL - Thanks for the comments they are very appreciated.  Will be keeping an eye out for your Whippet.  Still hope to have one myself soon.  Squadron has all their Emhar kits, including the Whippet, on sale for almost half price.  Debating on ordering one.

Rob

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Saturday, August 6, 2011 3:01 PM

Rob - agreed, you did an outstanding job on your armor build (I would have commented sooner, but been waiting to post an update on my current build but have nothing to report just yet).  Great technique(s) of making a monochromatic scheme look very interesting. 

Too bad about shelving the dio idea, but maybe the future will have more options figure wise.  Within a few short years will be the 100th anniversary of the start of the First World War.  I expect, or at least hope some of the more mainstream model companies will bring forth some new kits.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Sunday, August 7, 2011 3:24 AM

I took your advice on the deck. It doesn't look as good as the IPMS winners I posted, but that's to be expected. (If nothing else, I've never anything like this.) I used a razor blade instead of straight edge and aimed the paint right at where the blade angles toward the sharp end: tried to not to touch the deck with the brush at all or just barely. As the shading paint is very thin (probably 70% thinner) it flowed right down into the planks defined by the raised lines. (Didn't notice it before, but the lines are quite irregular. Not state of the art.) I gave it a final dusting with the base coat to tone down the contrast. Actually looks pretty good from about five feet - closer than most people look at my models. An improvement from the base coated deck. And I'm half done in two hours. Using the ultra thin masking tape took one wizard two months. In this case, we will not allow the perfect to get in the way of the good. (I wouldn't make perfect regardless.) Pics below are of the stern deck with shading and the bow without it.

When I get the deck done, I can start assembling the model - it's supposed to be a problem child. I'll be putting in brass masts, windows and PE. And no torpedo nets. Might get it done before Armistice Day.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    October 2009
Posted by PANZERWAFFE on Monday, August 8, 2011 6:39 PM

EBERGERUD - Those decks are looking great.  Taking the time to weather the decks is well worth the effort.  Huge improvement then just mono painted decks.  Always found this ship very intresting and look forward to see what you do with her.

JACK - Thanks for the comments.  The Dio will still be built sometime in the future, just have to get the figures and a place to putthe dio.  Space has become the main hold up.

Looking forward myself to see if there will be any new models, movies, books, etc.. with the WWI anniversary.

Rob

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Memphis TN
Posted by Heavens Eagle on Monday, August 8, 2011 11:57 PM

Here it is time for another post on progress.

To review, am building the old Eduard Hanover CL IIIa in 1/48th scale.  The upper wing from the kit is damaged beyond usability.   Had a problem occur with some of my photos.  They came up missing!  So where I could I recreated them.  In some cases (with the early stages of the center section) it is a loss. Bang Head

What I do have though, I believe you folks will appreciate, so here goes ;

As you can see, a fair amount of work to get back to square 1.  Actually though the new wing is a VAST improvement over the original.  Maybe I should just can the kit and scratch build the rest  (NOT!!!!) Dead

Enjoy!  I should have another photo batch up in a couple days or so.  Just have to put the pics together.

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Tuesday, August 9, 2011 8:13 AM

That's some great scratch building! Hats off to you.

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Memphis TN
Posted by Heavens Eagle on Tuesday, August 9, 2011 8:15 PM

You ain't seen nothin yet!  The best is coming. . .

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Memphis TN
Posted by Heavens Eagle on Wednesday, August 10, 2011 11:07 PM

As I promised, here is some more of my Hannover build.  The center wing section and a tease for next time. Big Smile

 

 

 

There has been no solvernt used to smooth the plastic after shaving, making holes, etc.  GeekedYeah

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Thursday, August 11, 2011 7:28 AM

Hi all. 

Eric that deck look fantastic and I betting the photos don't do it justice.

And the award for "Most advanced scratching technique in a Group Build" goes to (insert envelope rustling noises here)....

HEAVENS EAGLE!  (this is HE's 1st nomination and 1st win)

 

Been a couple of rough weeks lately.  The 13 years old 230k truck finally had to be replaced and was working at it against the end of month dead line for the state required vehicle inspeciton... that there was no way in hell it was going to pass. 

Then just to keep life interesting, the PC decide to go "blue screen of death" on me and have been working at getting my "life" put back into the newly wiped out and repartitioned drive.  And trying to figure out Windows 7 all at the same time.

Some bench time was possible even though no time for an update.  Interior just about done, engine all detailed and ready to close up the fuselage.  Notre to self... drill holes for rigging BEFORE closing!

Not sure what did but since the fit is so precise it had to be something I did but for the life of me can't figure what I did.  the engine is dead center along the center line laterally but the drive shaft is about 1/8" high :-?  Time for some srugery... Scalpel... Suction.... Forceps, quick, we got a bleeder...

Marc  

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Thursday, August 11, 2011 10:38 AM

Beautiful engine and great work on the Hannover.

Your deck came out very well.

I have the boats that sit in chocks mounted on the Emden. I've been busy with other things but I really want to wrap this up and get started on the Scharnhorst.

The base came back from the wood shop as part of a batch of six I ordered for various WIPs. Need to stain it and drill the mounting holes. My "working" base is getting some character!

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Sunday, August 21, 2011 6:57 AM

Just wanted to report that rumors concerning an August Armistice are false. The Albany CA branch of  Kaiserliche Werft continues to construct a Konig class battleship. Rumors of cost overruns are British propaganda. Actually the beast is farther along than it appears - how you handle the modules on a big kit like this does add spice to life. Of course we still have to scratch build the yards, put on rails and more PE, weather and rig the thing. It should be done before November 11. Not sure what year.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Monday, August 22, 2011 11:38 PM

BMan, Eric.. the navy look like it really getting along.  

 

Slow and steady wins the race they say.  Well I know it's not a race but I am certainly being slow and at least somewhat steady.  I didn't go with the gun upgrade this time and the stock from the box guns don't look too bad I don't think.

Started some painting on the fuselage.  I am considering drawing in the grain on each board with an artist pencil then sealing with a clear top coat.

Marc  

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Tuesday, August 23, 2011 2:05 AM

Good grief Wingnut.

Next time I do I deck, I'll send it you for some custom work. This build is looking terrific - put some pressure on Doog.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 1:14 AM

wing_nut

Started some painting on the fuselage.  I am considering drawing in the grain on each board with an artist pencil then sealing with a clear top coat.

Here's a product I found. I bought a couple of patterns for the Felixstowe, but they seem to mostly be out of production. Still, the stuff i got was nice although kind of blurry.

http://www.uschivdr.com/

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Memphis TN
Posted by Heavens Eagle on Sunday, August 28, 2011 12:45 PM
Hey Wing Nut, that is a good looking job so far! The Benz III engine looks great! As to your fit problem, it can't be the engine as that is pretty much a no brainer, it has to be the engine supports but I guess you figured that out.
Well the Hannover is off on a new direction at the moment. I basically got tired of working on the wing all the time so decided to work on another part for a while.  Just goes to show that if it ain't one thing it's another. Bang Head
Decided to try and build up the engine.  Little white metal casting, some photo etch, a little extra plastic for detail, right?  Dead  Wrong! Looks like they took a Benz III base and modded it slightly.  Wrong oil pan, too few motor mounts, and just the wrong size all together. (") So the engine is going to be a scratch job now too.  Pass on that for now.
Next thing is that the fusalage is going to need some shape work. Turns out it needs LOTS of work, too much for after the cockpit and all is installed. So the next installment will be the rework and "stretch" of the fuselage. (It was 1/8 inch too short) Hmm
In addition I am now using my old boat anchor SLR Olympus. It is a great camera, just not the high res that the little Nikon is.  More than enough for what I am doing here. I was having to reduce the photo sizes to 1/2 the width/height that they were coming from the Nikon anyway.  Turns out the Oly works SO MUCH BETTER for all these macro shots and is better in low light too. So there will be better pics in the next installment.
Paul

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Memphis TN
Posted by Heavens Eagle on Sunday, August 28, 2011 12:47 PM
Duplicate so It is deleted.

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 5:15 AM

Marc - sweet looking engine

Paul - man you should also get an award for patience and perseverance - I would of thrown that kit out long time ago lol.   Obviously you have done this sort of thing before since  you have both the skills and tools.  Am surprised an Eduard kit  requires such an amount of reworking, particularly the engine.  In fact, from what I've read,  it is the wrong engine altogether since the "a" designation was created for those Hanovers with the Argus engine.

regards,
Jack

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 8:32 PM

Just 1 update pic but at least it shows I've gotten closer to wing mounting/rigging. But 1st... tape, tape, tape, tape, tape,  and then more tape.

Marc  

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Memphis TN
Posted by Heavens Eagle on Sunday, September 4, 2011 10:26 PM

Hope everyone out there is having a wonderful Labor Day weekend!  Seems a little quiet in here lately.

 

I am beginning to hear crickets chirping.   Sleep

Well here goes, have been building and shooting photos.  It was time to put them together again.  Here is the latest on the Horrible Hannover.  ( I am enjoying it, but it is taking even more work than I expected )

 

 

 

 

 

Enjoy!

Should have another batch up in a couple of days.  Some real interesting stuff.

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Monday, September 5, 2011 6:36 PM

Paul - looks like you have created another hobby out of the hobby of model building - unbelievable. Have you ever considered doing official upgrades to kits for the other modelers out there?  Looks pro to me, even the presentation.

Well I have an update ... actually an update as to why I have no recent work done for this group build.  Just finished this native bust for a colleague, so should be able to get back to workbench now. 

I've linked the pic to the figures forum if you wish to see more.

regards,

Jack

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