Here some little update on the claude

the sprues

glued already wings pieces ,no modding here

and some dry fit

Eric: Nice collection of kits there, and nice job on the Ki-84.

Bsyamato: I suppose painting your model with malachite dust would be an interesting way to get the colour right

Nice looking kits there, 1/72nd is just too small for my eyes but some nice detail there and the fit seems pretty good.

hard to find malachite here

On mary flaps resolution

signed structure parts locations with a pencil 

differences between the little triangles before the file cure. I glued the pieces with tamiya green cap to give more strenght to the structure, and another pass after all pieces on.

and after the file action

already primed this afternoon, now waithing for a perfect color cure

bsyamato - well done on the flapwork! Think it'll be awhile before I take that kind of scratchwork on again, to be honest! The Fiat was flappy enough to last me some time...

Okay...question for the group before I dive into progress. The yellow wing edges...paint them first, then mask, or paint everything else, mask, then do the yellow? Seems easier to paint it then mask it the way it runs right up to the wing root, but this being my first Japanese plane, not sure if there's some stupid trick I don't know yet.

Next up - let me introduce "Fail Frank", who is now a paint mule. Fail Frank graciously volunteered to help me try out some chipping techniques.

I tried four. From left to right, good old prismacolor silver pencil, salt chipping, AK Interactive Worn Effects fluid, and AK Heavy Chipping Fluid. 

Honestly I really like the worn effects fluid, but I think it's a technique I need to get down a bit. Also there's something off with my H&S Evolution (think the needle's bent), so the stuff sprayed out all nasty, which may have contributed to the "dottiness" of it. Much better and more controllable than salt though. You can literally just pick the paint away with a toothpick.

Next...the George. Moving right along. Since it's going to be NMF on the bottom and getting some chipping action, I figured I'd prime it with Tamiya AS-12 Bare Metal Silver. Decanted, since I can't rattlecan to save my life. 

DOOGS-

I usually do my yellow leading edges last...mostly because that`s when I remember I have to do `em. I have done them 1st ,.but to me, it`s about the same amount of difficulty either way...you`re taping off little rectangles one way or another...

That NMF looks great Doogs. Perfect.

Looks great Doogs!  As for the weathering effect, if you're looking for a "heavy" effect,  I'd agree on the fluid technique.  Not real familiar with that process but it appears to give a realistic effect.

Reasoned

Looks great Doogs!  As for the weathering effect, if you're looking for a "heavy" effect,  I'd agree on the fluid technique.  Not real familiar with that process but it appears to give a realistic effect.

It's basically the hairspray technique...but AK's made specially-designed, through-the-airbrush fluid to do the job. I definitely went overboard with it, seeing how far I could go, but I think it's what I'm going to use with the George. My biggest fear is masking over for either the yellow or the green, but it seems like once the paint's had a day or so to cure it's pretty tough. The key to the chipping is hitting it fast...after the Tamiya paint is dry, but not dry, if that makes sense. 

Bit more progress on the George tonight. Got the Alclad Aluminum laid down. Next I want to mask and shoot certain panels with some different Alclads (Duraluminum, Dark Aluminum, Dull on the ailerons, etc). Also got the props and drop tank shot tonight. For the tank, I went with Tamiya JN Gray, preshaded with some flat brown. Should be a nice contrast to both the topside JN Green and the NMF underside.

DoogsATX

Bit more progress on the George tonight. Got the Alclad Aluminum laid down. Next I want to mask and shoot certain panels with some different Alclads (Duraluminum, Dark Aluminum, Dull on the ailerons, etc). Also got the props and drop tank shot tonight. For the tank, I went with Tamiya JN Gray, preshaded with some flat brown. Should be a nice contrast to both the topside JN Green and the NMF underside.

Not to get too side tracked but I'm thinking of using Alclad for the first time.  Which Alum did you use above, the 101 version or the "Shinny" A/C ALM version 119?  It seems to have a sheen to it but not like chrome.  Your finish looks flawless, going to have to Jap plane that one up a bit.

Doggs,

In answer to your yellow issue. FWIW I usually paint the yellow first and mask it as it seems to go down eaiser on the metal or primer then trying to shot it over the green.\

Nice metal BTW

Doogs:

I too do the yellow first and then mask over it. Mainly because it's a bear to get yellow to cover anything. So I spray the leading edges with white or tan, then the yellow, mask and paint everything else. Guess it won't work on your N1K1 since you've already sprayed the aluminum though.

Very nice job on the aluminum, you've become the master of the NM! And nice demo on the varoius types of masking for chipping.

Gamera

Doogs:

I too do the yellow first and then mask over it. Mainly because it's a bear to get yellow to cover anything. So I spray the leading edges with white or tan, then the yellow, mask and paint everything else. Guess it won't work on your N1K1 since you've already sprayed the aluminum though.

Very nice job on the aluminum, you've become the master of the NM! And nice demo on the varoius types of masking for chipping.

Well, I'm planning on spraying the yellow directly over the aluminum so I can utilize the chipping fluid, then I'll probably mask and respray the Alclad on top to chip again on the green.

I think...

Reasoned - it's the straight-up regular finish Aluminum. Definitely planning to mess with the panels on the bottom (not much need up top, where it'll just be showing through chipped green and yellow) - but wanted to give the Aluminum time to cure before I start masking panels.

Personally I'm not a fan of the high-shine finishes for wartime aircraft. MAYBE on a factory-fresh B-29 or something (or the brass one for doing brass shell casings - need to pick up a bottle for the Bishop). The best use for them IMO is as a shading tool, since their translucency lets the base black come through a bit and darken them as compared to aluminum, duraluminum, etc.

Brave guy: I don't think I could handle Alclad paint fumes. My table is too far from a window to put in a circulation box.

I tried the AK Worn Effects stuff on my recent I-boat. It does work. However, even though it's listed as an enamel product, it got down to plastic really quick. If you're putting it between  a lacquer and an acrylic, I'd think that would work better. We'll all know soon I guess.

Dreadnought is supposed to be a very clean build. It's inherently simple for that era (the ICM German Dreds have a more complex deck structure) and has a part count of about 320 which is very reasonable for a ship. If Trumpie puts out its Queen Elizabeth in WWI dress 1/350 I'll break my no buy vow. (Model reviewers can be really carpy, especially the ship rivet counters. Most Mikasa builders at Modelship have been very pleased with the kit if not with the prices Hasegawa likes for upgrades.)

Eric

EBergerud

Brave guy: I don't think I could handle Alclad paint fumes. My table is too far from a window to put in a circulation box.

One of the advantages of working in the garage with the door up (though when it comes to Alclad and Gunze I still wear a respirator and spend a few minutes outside after I spray)

I tried the AK Worn Effects stuff on my recent I-boat. It does work. However, even though it's listed as an enamel product, it got down to plastic really quick. If you're putting it between  a lacquer and an acrylic, I'd think that would work better. We'll all know soon I guess.

Think maybe we're thinking about different AK Worn Effects? The stuff I've got - and their heavy chipping fluid - are both listed as straight-up water-based. Basically the hairspray effect in more controllable form. I don't think it would get into enamel, BUT I've only tried it so far over Tamiya AS-12, which may be the single toughest paint I've ever encountered.

Just wish they had more documentation. How long, for example, until the product "turns off"? Or can it be  turned back on by wetting the paint with water again? Will a clear coat shut it down?

Either way, I'll find out soon!

Dreadnought is supposed to be a very clean build. It's inherently simple for that era (the ICM German Dreds have a more complex deck structure) and has a part count of about 320 which is very reasonable for a ship. If Trumpie puts out its Queen Elizabeth in WWI dress 1/350 I'll break my no buy vow. (Model reviewers can be really carpy, especially the ship rivet counters. Most Mikasa builders at Modelship have been very pleased with the kit if not with the prices Hasegawa likes for upgrades.)

Eric

That's one of the things I really like about the Dreadnought - the absolute economy of the design, and how it's very firmly between two eras of capital ship. Between it, the Laffey and the giant Revell Fletcher, I think I've got three pretty sweet ships to play with!

[/quote]

DoogsATX

bsyamato - well done on the flapwork! Think it'll be awhile before I take that kind of scratchwork on again, to be honest! The Fiat was flappy enough to last me some time...

..

Next up - let me introduce "Fail Frank", who is now a paint mule. Fail Frank graciously volunteered to help me try out some chipping techniques.

Me too Doogs, after i close the mary and the Veltro will not touch flaps for almost 5 or 6 planes engines too!! drammatically increase the work needed. I use an old f-15 as mule ,because i had the only upper surface

Nice workin on george

Sorry if not so present in this and past week but i'm on hard work period.

Some little update on the mary

re-draw lost lines

mary after first coat of mixed grey

and after the third coat

Claude started on the cockpit work, detail is good but some pieces need to be added. Soon pictures

Should always read the labels. I bought several AK things and they were all enamel. Worn Effects, now that I look, is acrylic so no wonder it went through Future. (One thing I did find out was that if you use more Worn Effects the stuff comes off much easier, which could be good or bad.) Will use some enamel or lacquer clear in future. Am curious. For great big gouges or removing move of the paint for winter camo this stuff might work really well. For smaller scale things, I think you can do very good chipping with a sponge or brush. AK has a board now - not very big, but some Euros on it and the AK staff give opinions. There really don't seem to be any rules for the armor crowd now. Companies like MIG and AK come along with products galore but don't really tell you how to use them. I'm not sure they really know how to use them. I've got a AK DVD and Mig Jimenez uses a "streaking effects" brew for a pinwash. Or why would anyone want to use turpenoid on styrene - I think it leaves tidemarks.  (I'd really like to see some Abteilung oils. They're getting more money for those per ounce than the best artist oils on the market. From my experience, when you're using oils on a model, you don't want those super-powerful inorganic pigment/dyes that you pay big bucks for if you buy Windsor or another company. Those pigments will absolutely explode on you - I've got a ritzy blue that is useless on a model unless applied with a small needle -  unless you want a blue model. Wonder if Abteilung are not closer to the Reeves student grade stuff that you can pick up $10 - for 18 colors in small tubes.) They have a good racket: I'm reasonably sure Thinner for Washes is simple Mineral Spirits: I'd guess their setting fluid is close to acrylic thinner. The one place where I think AK is right is in using enamels for streaking instead of oils. Wish those weathering DVDs came from a neutral source: there's a lot of very good info on them. But they also are a kind of infomercial.  It'll all trickle down I hope. Hope this isn't heresy, but I think real combat aircraft were more heavily weathered than normally portrayed by modelers.

Unless I completely misunderstand the way the hairspray process works, you should be able to chip well after the stuff is dry. Don't quote me on this - picked this up from the AK videos and their board. (Probably should ask them. One of their guys named Ian is very quick to answer questions.) Methinks the fluid prevents the coat of paint from melding properly as opposed to drying properly. If so, you should have a long time to do your chipping. (In one of the AK videos it recommends moistening the coat you're chipping with ISP if water isn't working well enough: that says something.) If not, you'd have to move pretty quickly. It would be really helpful if we knew what this stuff does: what's the active ingredient? One video says look for hairspray with "extra hold" in it - that tells me that there's some chemistry working here. We just don't know what it is.  (Youtube has some stuff on it, but they're using it with acrylics all around and for taking off small amounts of stuff. They let everything dry, but don't say for how long. I'm sure there are more videos, but finding what you want on YouTube takes some luck.) We'll be watching, just report any catastrophes along with the triumphs.

Eric

Doogs: The George is really cooking!

Sorry, couldn't help myself there

Sounds like a plan, I'm not sure how I'd mask the leading edges there, what you've got seems like the most sensible way.

Eric: I spray Alclad in a closed in basement, I hope my lungs are ok. You can use low enough air pressure that I don't get too much fumes - or at least I don't think they're too bad. I rarely use anything more powerful than acrylic so I hope I'm ok....

Bsyamato: Nice, after the primer coats she's looking very smooth and sleek Sorry I couldn't think of a good Mary to match the George photo - only Mary I can think of is Mary Tyler Moore....

Gamera

Eric: I spray Alclad in a closed in basement, I hope my lungs are ok. You can use low enough air pressure that I don't get too much fumes - or at least I don't think they're too bad. I rarely use anything more powerful than acrylic so I hope I'm ok....

I also do all my ABing in a closed basement, with enamels no less.  I figure all the time I spent in bars (when smoking was still allowed, even though I didn't) did whatever damage was to be done.  Shoot, I know body shop men who shot lacquers for years, still alive, a little goofy.... but still alive!

For a while I've been using water based acrylics (Golden and Vallejo Model Color) for most things which are about as mild as you can find. Not sure one should be cavalier though. On Golden's website they recommend using a simple mask with their stuff because any pigment is still a kind of pretty dense dust and not meant to be inhaled. It's actually probably safer to eat the stuff. (Student grade acrylics made for schools often are eaten says my wife the grade school teacher. Little kids are beastly cute but do lack judgement at times.) So I try to wear a light mask but it's easy to forget when your stuff has no smell at all. My problem with a mask is that my glasses fog up. If I had won that lottery I'd have had the optician put prescription lenses into one of those proper masks. Maybe a fan too. (Hear my pain Micro Mark?)

Eric

Should always read the labels. I bought several AK things and they were all enamel. Worn Effects, now that I look, is acrylic so no wonder it went through Future. (One thing I did find out was that if you use more Worn Effects the stuff comes off much easier, which could be good or bad.) Will use some enamel or lacquer clear in future. Am curious. For great big gouges or removing move of the paint for winter camo this stuff might work really well. For smaller scale things, I think you can do very good chipping with a sponge or brush. AK has a board now - not very big, but some Euros on it and the AK staff give opinions. There really don't seem to be any rules for the armor crowd now. Companies like MIG and AK come along with products galore but don't really tell you how to use them. I'm not sure they really know how to use them. I've got a AK DVD and Mig Jimenez uses a "streaking effects" brew for a pinwash. Or why would anyone want to use turpenoid on styrene - I think it leaves tidemarks.  (I'd really like to see some Abteilung oils. They're getting more money for those per ounce than the best artist oils on the market. From my experience, when you're using oils on a model, you don't want those super-powerful inorganic pigment/dyes that you pay big bucks for if you buy Windsor or another company. Those pigments will absolutely explode on you - I've got a ritzy blue that is useless on a model unless applied with a small needle -  unless you want a blue model. Wonder if Abteilung are not closer to the Reeves student grade stuff that you can pick up $10 - for 18 colors in small tubes.) They have a good racket: I'm reasonably sure Thinner for Washes is simple Mineral Spirits: I'd guess their setting fluid is close to acrylic thinner. The one place where I think AK is right is in using enamels for streaking instead of oils. Wish those weathering DVDs came from a neutral source: there's a lot of very good info on them. But they also are a kind of infomercial.  It'll all trickle down I hope. Hope this isn't heresy, but I think real combat aircraft were more heavily weathered than normally portrayed by modelers.

Unless I completely misunderstand the way the hairspray process works, you should be able to chip well after the stuff is dry. Don't quote me on this - picked this up from the AK videos and their board. (Probably should ask them. One of their guys named Ian is very quick to answer questions.) Methinks the fluid prevents the coat of paint from melding properly as opposed to drying properly. If so, you should have a long time to do your chipping. (In one of the AK videos it recommends moistening the coat you're chipping with ISP if water isn't working well enough: that says something.) If not, you'd have to move pretty quickly. It would be really helpful if we knew what this stuff does: what's the active ingredient? One video says look for hairspray with "extra hold" in it - that tells me that there's some chemistry working here. We just don't know what it is.  (Youtube has some stuff on it, but they're using it with acrylics all around and for taking off small amounts of stuff. They let everything dry, but don't say for how long. I'm sure there are more videos, but finding what you want on YouTube takes some luck.) We'll be watching, just report any catastrophes along with the triumphs.

Eric

Gamera

Doogs: The George is really cooking!

Sorry, couldn't help myself there

Sounds like a plan, I'm not sure how I'd mask the leading edges there, what you've got seems like the most sensible way.

Eric: I spray Alclad in a closed in basement, I hope my lungs are ok. You can use low enough air pressure that I don't get too much fumes - or at least I don't think they're too bad. I rarely use anything more powerful than acrylic so I hope I'm ok....

Bsyamato: Nice, after the primer coats she's looking very smooth and sleek Sorry I couldn't think of a good Mary to match the George photo - only Mary I can think of is Mary Tyler Moore....

LOL !! unfortunately not know about these George and Mary

mixed the green and put on first layer!!! need to find empty bottles to put these mix 

Also cut the canopy copies ,heres the windshields

I'll try to fix them after second green layer with revell contacta clear glue and avoid CA this time

Bsyamato: Sorry, after the posting for 'Kate' of American actress Kate Beckinsdale (sp?) I was feeling silly to post the photo of a 'George'. He's former US boxer George Foreman who now has a TV ad where he sells this small grill he put his name on.

I'd post a 'Mary' but the only ones I can think of are American actress Mary Tyler Moore and of course Saint Mary...

Nice work on the Mary, assuming you're going to weather her like the Zero? 

Uh Foreman LOL now remember ....  he's probably famous here too about boxing fans ,remember heard sometimes . Don't worry about an associated picture for the mary (what you can put about claude )

I'll try on the mary the same zero way, but don't think it's possible i need again to find white surrounded hinomarus because the kit include it withouth.

Just passed 2nd layer of green, looks already good but a third extra thinned layer will be a better result.

This night will have workbench night finally

It's probably a sign of little kids in the house that the first George that springs to mind is Curious George!

Speaking of little kids...man Monday night was rough. Our oldest woke up in a screaming fit, totally interrupting bench time. And when I was out in the garage, so was every flying insect in central Texas. So Monday kind of sucked.

Last night, though, I sprayed the yellow wing edges. Laid down some AK light chipping fluid first, then hit it with a toothpick and an old airbrush needle. Really happy with the results, I just hope they hold up under masking.

That turned out really nice Doogs! Personally, I`d never be able to mask the yellow off and get a perfect line...guess that`s why I lean more towards doing those ID markings after the wings are painted. I know most people have trouble painting yellow or white over darker colors,at least they say they do , but I don`t seem to have that problem. Yeah, it`s a little tougher to cover but I just keep doing light coats until I get what I`m looking for.

The chipping looks very realistic to me. The NMF looks great too...too bad you`re gonna cover it up.......my best attempt at an NMF doesn`t look that good...

Len

Thanks Len! Strangely, I've never had much of a problem with painting white over darker colors (sometimes I actually prefer going that way). Yellow can be another matter if you're talking about massive expanses of uniform color - the yellow wings on pre-war US stuff being the prime example, but for small strips like this or prop tips, as long as it's going down over silver or white, no biggie!

Yeah, I'm a big fan of this chipping fluid stuff, but VERY glad I decided to try it on Fail Frank first! Very easy to take it too far, but a lighter touch with a toothpick and smaller really does create some very convincing chipping. 

As for the NMF, it's really not that difficult, I swear! All I did this time around was a base coat of Tamiya AS-12, a polishing sand with some micromesh, and a topcoat of Alclad Aluminum. I'm planning to go back and do some more on the underside, maybe tonight, just to give it some more variation than it has. Then I have to mask the yellow. THAT will be fun...

Hey wow Doogs, I've tried to do chipping like that with a silver pencil but it never comes out that well. Waiting to see how she comes off after the masking with bated breath... I may have to pick up some of the AK chipping fluid myself.

Chipping does look good Doog: methinks having lacquer underneath is a help. And from my experience quantity does change quality with that stuff. I first applied a very thin coat with a brush and it proved hard to remove. Doubled the dose and it came off in gobs (which is what I wanted) but took the lower layer with it. But the lower layer was acrylic. 

My next plane is going to be NMS medical experiment: I've got a Revell Texan that will do the job nicely. I'm going to see if it can be done with acrylics well enough to serve. I have some Hawkeye Talon which claims to be almost as good as their acrylic (which predated Alclad I think). Also throw in some Gunze silver metallizer: don't know what Gunze puts into their metallics, but it's lovely stuff when you get used to it. We'll try a panel's worth of more or less everything.

As far as painting white and yellow, this is one place where I think Golden Fluid Acrylics are strong. True you have to work with mediums (very simple actually) but the big advantage is that you can tell from the label how well a color will cover. Titanium White (a non-organic earth pigment and thus very potent) is extremely opaque. No yellow will cover quite that well, but some are close. The earth pigments on those things are extremely fine - which is good news for your airbrush. I bought some earth pigments at the art store that are designed to be used to make your own paint. They're much finer than MIG or AK, and cheaper. (That isn't necessarily good. Sometimes you want a grainy texture for making dust or mud. If that's the case, Micro Mark has long had a pigment set for railroaders called Doc O'Brien's and they work great at a fraction of MIG's cost.) I'm planning a Battle of Britain quartet for this summer hopefully and both the Stuka and 109 will have a lot of yellow so we'll see for sure.

Eric

Eric - I'll be curious to see what you think of Talon. I've tried it and didn't like it anywhere near as well as Alclad. I've yet to try Gunze's metalizers, but I hope to as I really love their Mr. Color line.

Regarding Doc O'Brien's - tried them as well (mainly for the price) and in my experience they're nowhere near as good as MIG's stuff. But honestly, if you buy MIG straight from their webstore it's like half the price of what you'll pay on Sprue Brothers, etc.