B-36 Peacemaker Group Build

I have some paint questions if anyone knows the answers. I've seen photos of the Pima aircraft and have been up close and personal with the WPAFB aircraft, but I don't trust the paint finishes I see. Were the props and white thermal paint flat, semi-gloss or gloss originally?

Also, did the props have the Curtiss logos on them from the factory, as well as numbers on the nacelles and flaps. The Wachsmuth book shows nacelle and flap numbers, but I don't see them in any other photos. Did they just wear off in time from weather and sunlight. And I see some photos with the Curtiss prop logos (and most aircraft from WWII showed off Curtiss or Hamilton Standard prop logos, but I don't see them in many photos. Again, did they just wear or fade out or are the photos just not picking them up?

You dont necessarily have to model it that way since it came with the dual dome radomes that had no other rival until Cadillac had those iconic " `59 bumper darts"  based off of something else. ;-)

lajntx, Yeah, now my problem is trying to figure out the best way to model the double-wide radome. Modeling putty doesn't seem to be the best way and I don't have a vacuform.

FYI for all. For any of you interested in adding airplugs to the nacelles (something I'd like to do), I found what I believe is the perfect solution. Precision Metals makes a brass tube 19/32" OD x 0.014" wall thickness. It is Stock #142 and I found it at Ace Hardware for $3.29. It is in the section in Ace Hardware stores that sell what I consider to be modeling brass rod, tube and sheet.  

I measured the I.D. of the nacelles and they nominally came out to 0.595". The tube is 0.5938" OD. It slides in perfectly and is very thin wall. The tube is 12 inches long. I like the idea of having the airplugs extended a bit and adding the diamond markings. It adds a little detail to an overly bland silver aircraft.

I agree with the copyright issues too. Regarding my posting for downloading the T.O.'s, those are all public domain, so download away.

Teutonic222

Hello lajntx. Are you insinuating anything? :)

Maybe. lol

I found out something else interesting the other day about The City of Ft Worth....

It too also is the current owner of a APG-32 rear radome cover, and not the dual cone APG-41A as depicted in the kit. To the best of my knowledge with the info I have.. ( and have read from other sources ) is once the J`s were sent to the boneyard in 1958/59 is that it was the first item physically taken off because it was a highly coveted part for other aircraft in service due to being quite expensive to buy new. I read that during the last Featherweight upgrade that any H that didnt come with the 41A from the factory was exempted from that upgrade due to the cost. Apparently either before it was retired it got a scavenged 32 series, or it was removed when being prepped for retirement as a "critcal part".

Here is a picture of it while being restored at PIMA

From:

http://www.ub88.org/researchprojects/b36peacemaker/thelastb36/the-last-b-36.html

jeaton01

I think these are in that book but here is a diagram and some photos showing the differences between recon  and bomber types.

Thanks Jeaton, the other book didnt credit the drawing to Convair... which would make it public use, and with the last warning Finescale gave about using "copy righted" material.... I hesitate posting anything I personally dont own.... or know those whom do own it whom have already told me it was ok, or something already posted online with credit back to it. 

Something I have never fully understood is how 99% of all model builders are fixated with painting a bird that looks factory fresh off the assembly line? Dont get me wrong... with walkway stripes and all the other details added on the contrast looks very good, but  most 36`s after a few years in service either lost alot of that dark/shiney contrast due to painting or exposure to the elements.

Hi,

I am very interested in the YB-36 model that you are building. I flew on 42-13571 at Ramey when it was a RB-36E and also when it was later feather weighted. I would rly like to receive pics of your finished project if at all possible as they would be great to have as a memento of my B-36 days.

Thanks,

Roger

I checked out the T.O. book. Good find.

A couple of days ago I was able to download from Scribd (for free) the full T.O. for the B-36H. It was in four parts. I have uploaded all four documents to SendThisFile.com. There are about 750 pages. If you click on the following link you can download the documents from SendThisFile.com (there is no cost or registration involved). The four files total about 350 MB. NOTE: THIS LINK EXPIRES IN 8 DAYS FROM JAN 5, 2014.

Click to download the documents:

https://www.sendthisfile.com/KD5vsAMk23H8lgdpiKWWn9zJ

 The four documents that will download are listed below.

70709709-1954-T-O-1B-36H-III-1-Flight-Handbook-USAF-Series-B-36H-III-Aircraft-Pt-1.pdf

70711045-1954-T-O-1B-36H-III-1-Flight-Handbook-USAF-Series-B-36H-III-Aircraft-Pt-2.pdf

70712718-1954-T-O-1B-36H-III-1-Flight-Handbook-USAF-Series-B-36H-III-Aircraft-Pt-3.pdf

70713413-1954-T-O-1B-36H-III-1-Flight-Handbook-USAF-Series-B-36H-III-Aircraft-Pt-4.pdf

Hello lajntx. Are you insinuating anything? :)

I think these are in that book but here is a diagram and some photos showing the differences between recon  and bomber types.

Speaking of Wayne Wachsmuth, here is a buy it now listing on ebay set to expire in 3 hours that includes the B-36 book and a few others for $20 & about $5 shipping

www.ebay.com/.../221344243030

Here is a new online resource everyone  can book mark:

Portions of the B-36 Peacemaker Pilot's Flight Operating Instructions

http://books.google.com/books?id=eflKhY26inwC&pg=PA5&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

A book for an engineer--by engineers. Someone here ought to love this! Esp that part covering how to manually drop the landing gear while in flight. 

No names mentioned of course. 

Spark84

Does anyone have (or know of) a diagram that shows witch fuselage sections were magnesium and which were aluminum? or is it as simple as the darker sections seen in pictures are magnesium...

I have the magnesium overcast book if there's one in there.

Thanks

The simple answer to your question.... Yes, darker sections are magnesium, and shinier lighter sections are aluminum. The only difference between the bomber version and RB version is the RB has the pressurized camera compartment in what would normally be bomb bay 1. The tail section & wings are identical to both bomber & RB

The only drawing out there that will show you where what is though is in the Wachsmuth book on page 14 where the author hand drew a good diagram of a bomber version showing what was aluminum, and what was magnesium. Due to copyright restrictions ( and the fact that it was also his personal work ), I cannot post that on here. Keep an eye out for this on ebay, sooner or later someone will always sell a used copy for < $20 & free ship

Does anyone have (or know of) a diagram that shows witch fuselage sections were magnesium and which were aluminum? or is it as simple as the darker sections seen in pictures are magnesium...

I have the magnesium overcast book if there's one in there.

Thanks

One other issue I had with the museum B-36 was that it was virtually devoid of notices. I was hoping to find some of those so I could add them to a homemade decal sheet. Oh well. Despite that and some errors, it was a great visit and wonderful to see the plane up close and personal. My wife took a photo of me standing by it. It's a bit like the tourist photos of someone standing under the Eiffel Tower: big tower, very little person.

Everyone -- here are links to my Flickr photo sets. Keep in mind, I was taking photos for modeling details rather than overall shots of the aircraft (or for hanging above a fireplace mantle).

B-36Jt:  http://flickr.com/gp/25391811@N02/9a45wu/

Lockheed AC-130A Spectre:  http://flickr.com/gp/25391811@N02/U81C24/

RF-4C Phantom II:  http://flickr.com/gp/25391811@N02/nY1128/

F-4D Phantom II cockpit:  http://flickr.com/gp/25391811@N02/i57610/

F-4C Phantom II (camo):  http://flickr.com/gp/25391811@N02/6o8o18/

B-52D (SEA): http://flickr.com/gp/25391811@N02/v2674r/

Gen’l photos:  http://flickr.com/gp/25391811@N02/d29112/

John, you might be right about the wrinkles and circle indents. Haven't found a good photo of the aircraft in its hey day to determine whether the circles are there or not. The photos always have too much saturation on the tail.

John, The radome is definitely large; keeps the sun off the guns.

I`m still looking through all my books for answers to the other questions, but here is an interesting photo from this online book on page 72

http://www.scribd.com/doc/52188705/Convair-B-36-Peacemaker-a-Photo-Chronicle

This shows the B-36 J taking off from Davis Monthan on 30 April 1959. This was the last ever flight of a B-36 ( Though the restoration team in Ft Worth came close in `72 to making The City of Ft Worth ready for flight before the Air Force said not just  "NO" but "H3LL NO" and seized the engines ).

jeaton01

Thanks for that tail cannon shot.  The radome there looks odd, doesn't it.

Yes it does. It`s another one of those "errors". The J came from the factory with the APG-41A Tail Radome ( which is what the kit comes with ). However at some point in the crafts career it was replaced with a used APG-32 Radome off of a reclaimed F or H model.

( I wonder if it`s due to the fact that the J was originally intended for scrapping, and not intended to be kept in storage as a museum piece. This would mean that certain parts the Air Force had designated as "vital" - such as the Radomes and -53 series Pratt & Whitney engines would have been removed immediately and shipped off for storage. Then it was suddenly pulled and quickly put back together with all the parts needed for flight. This might explain some of the RB confusion earlier. lol ) 

Page 32 on here has a good drawing of the 3 different type of tail radomes found on the B-36

http://www.scribd.com/doc/51639302/Squadron-Signal-Aircraft-No-42-B-36-in-Action

Teutonic222

John, Thanks for that. Hopefully one of the authors will recognize that little vent. Might have been connected to the urinal - or worse. :)  I looked at some of the other photos on the Internet and the oval and round screened vents are visible as black dots just underneath the flaps. It would appear they were on all of the version from what I can tell.

Have you ever tried adding the "wrinkles" to the fuselage of the circle-type indents on the rudder? I saw a B-52 modeler gently carve some wrinkles into the fuselage and it look great. The challenge with the B-36 is that the wrinkles are evenly spaced on the magnesium parts of the fuselage. The wrinkles in the rudder leading edges appear more random and the circles on the rudder are quite visible. It would be nice to duplicate that look as long as it doesn't cause one to go insane trying.

Good luck. I think I will keep my sanity and not even try that. I wonder though how much of that rudder wear isnt more the result thining metal due to sitting out in the sun for so long at Biggs AFB, Davis Monthan, and then the 13 years on the back lot of Wright Patterson exposed to the extremes of Ohio weather without maintenace. 

Thanks for that tail cannon shot.  The radome there looks odd, doesn't it.

Teutonic222

Just saw it. Interesting. Never knew they had one before and let it rot.

The Museum was orginally allocated 2. The first being the YB since the XB had long since been destroyed as a fire trainer at Carswell. The second was going to be 44-92024 ( another RB-36E conversion of an original B-36A airframe ). However, the J on display now was pulled from inventory and  flown in instead and that airframe was used as a fire trainer at Davis Monthan. The reason being if I remember the story right was the J could be flown to Dayton and the other would have had to have been dismantled to be transported.

The J ( the 2nd B-36 )  languished on a back lot of the airfield from 1959-72 awaiting assignment ( which is what you see in that post card ) and then eventually was restored for the current museum. If you ever get a chance to see the pictures of it being put in the building I highly recomend it. When the new museum was under construction, it was decided that it wasnt cost effective to restore and move the YB, thus it was cut up as scrap ( with a bulldozer and blow torches ) and the sellable remains were sold to Walter Soplata

See here for pictures of it at Walter Soplata`s

http://pacaeropress.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=3243121

John, Thanks for that. Hopefully one of the authors will recognize that little vent. Might have been connected to the urinal - or worse. :)  I looked at some of the other photos on the Internet and the oval and round screened vents are visible as black dots just underneath the flaps. It would appear they were on all of the version from what I can tell.

Have you ever tried adding the "wrinkles" to the fuselage of the circle-type indents on the rudder? I saw a B-52 modeler gently carve some wrinkles into the fuselage and it look great. The challenge with the B-36 is that the wrinkles are evenly spaced on the magnesium parts of the fuselage. The wrinkles in the rudder leading edges appear more random and the circles on the rudder are quite visible. It would be nice to duplicate that look as long as it doesn't cause one to go insane trying.

Just saw it. Interesting. Never knew they had one before and let it rot.

No idea, I sent out a request to one of the B-36 book authors to see if they can help you.

lajntx, by chance do you know anything about a small vent/duct on the starboard side of the fuselage, near the bottom and just in front of the belly gun door and belly camera window? It looks a bit like the chaff dispenser chutes. It's shown in IMG_0528 and IMG-0529 in my Flickr post. I want to make sure I don't introduce something that never existed on a B-36J.

I'm also on the hunt for a clear bead to model the belly-mounted bomb sight. I figure I'd go to a bead store and see if I can find something about the right size. The sight appears to be about 6" diam (couldn't get close enough to measure directly). If I find anything, let me know if you want some.

Also, I spotted an oval-shaped vent with a screen below the starboard wing root near the flap, and a smaller round vent with a screen about 8 o'clock from the oval vent. I thought I got a photo of it, but apparently I missed it. Any idea what it is?

They were probably confusing it with the first B-36 they had. Did you see the link I added above with the current J on the Museum`s original post card of it?

You da man, John. Thanks for the info. It was the docent that told me it had been an RB and I might have either mis-heard him or assumed it was an RB-36J which, as you pointed out, never existed (didn't remember that from Wachsmuth's book). It's too bad when a museum has the opportunity to get things right, that they fail to do so.

The good news is that the docent said if I need more photos or any other information, just contact him and he'll help out (he was a model guy too). The visit was top notch, but they had the museum gift shop closed for inventory, which put a halt on my chances to look through their book collection.

The link to the B-36 photos is:  flickr.com/.../9a45wu    

I'm uploading the other aircraft tonight and probably the next day.

Also.....

The sad state of affairs it had become prior to scrapping:

The B-36J III Featherweight was never an RB. It`s sole mission was to carry MK-17/24 nuclear bombs at 40K+++ feet to avoid Soviet fighters of the era until the B-52 was able to replace it. The RB-36H`s were the last line to be built as an RB before the remaining RB`s were modified to carry standard munitions and assume bomber rolls when the RB-47`s ( and later the RB-52`s ) took over the front line recon roles.

The YB-36 which was upgraded to an RB-36E standard was the first B-36 the museum had and was subsequently scrapped when the current museum was built and the old site closed. The remains of that craft was sold to Walter Soplata. The B-36J they have while being the only one left that is fully intact and capable of being flown has been "restored" with many errors since it was flown in from Davis-Monthan in 1959

If you would like to see how the current J looked when it arrived from Davis-Monthan, this colorized postcard the museum sold for years will show what it looked like as it set around on the air base while awaiting the current museum to be built-- and before it was "restored" with errors. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/B-36-Wright-Patterson-Air-Force-Base-Airplane-Postcard-/231125240926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35d0234c5e

The original YB/RB-36E on outdoor display in its hey days: