French a/c group build 2012-13

Bad luck on the Choctaw Theuns. We've all been there, and understand that 'gutted' feeling.

John - I've never seen a completed Noratlas. What about it ?

Cheers

Tony

 I have a huge favour to ask of our Inspirational , Fearless , One-of-a-Kind , all-round Good Guy Group Build Leader ...Vance

Is it okay if I continue with the previously started Heller Nord 2501 Noratlas build ?

I know everyone has family issue to deal with from time to time and I'm a full time carer for my elderly parents as I'm home 24/7 , which up untill the past twelve months , ment I could get quite a lot of build time at different times of the day and evening , however of late both Dad and Mum are struggling with thier respective health issue's ; Mum has parkinsons disease and Dad is battling a re-occurrance of lymphoma .

Obvisiously I don't have as much bench time as I use to and I have a huge number of already started builds which are about 75%-90% complete taking up shelf space where completed builds are suppose to be and everytime I make it out to the back room for some airbrushing , something suddenly requires my attention else where .

Anyway , I found the original WIP pic's from the first but sadly ill-fated Heller Noratlas build and I followed pretty much the same build sequence for the second build .....

Cockpit and fuselage interior pieces pre painted

Interior pieces glued in place with fishing sinkers squashed up to fit under the floor towards the front of the aircraft

Fuselage halves glued together

Getting ready to glue the wings on

Left wing glued in place and left to dry over night

Right wing glued in position with the aid of some supports to match the other wing

Front on view

Here's the second build as of today

I know it's usually frowned upon to throw a build into the mix that's at least 50% already started and the first seven WIP pics are from the original build ; but as I mentioned before this current second build went together much the same way .

Not trying to cheat or anything like that , I would just like to try and finish a lot of my on-going builds before starting another kit form scratch .

Either way , I'll accept whatever the Group Build decides .

John

John - as the benevolent dictator, err "director" of this GB, I hereby allow you to switch ponies midway. 1-you've got a Doctors note and 2-I swear, I had the same white & gold tiles in my bathroom up until the spring renovations. Fetchez la vache!!! (Or as a certain Field Marshall would say, get building!!  )

A transport aircraft kit with an interior?

Unusual.

Looks nice!

Sprue-ce Goose

A transport aircraft kit with an interior?

Unusual.

Looks nice!

Well there is a LOT of room in there, glad to see there is detail. Not sure how much is kit-supplied vs John's scratch-building though.

Thank's Vance

I'm sure the others have already mentioned this but by far you are the most popular (benevolent dictator) GB director on FSM ...

One of the reasons I like the Heller Nord 2501 Noratlas kit is the structural ribbing on the fuselage insides and cabin floor piece .

After painting I'll pose my rear clamshell doors in the open position .

I have also decided to use the kit decals which have the aircraft marked as serving in Algeria 1961

Last night I dipped the Noratlas canopy into some 'future'

Hopfully I shouldn't have any issues with masking tape residue

While searching the net last night for info on French Military operatins in Algeria , I saw some pic's of the French Army H-34A's

One thing I had completely forgotten about was that the early H-34's had the flat cockpit side windows as opposed to the bulged side windows on later versions

Hobby Boss molded their canopy and side cockpit windows in a single clear piece , so it would be difficult to replace the side windows ; Italeri provide seperate bulged cockpit side windows and would be easy to replace with some flat clear sheet . Even though I was trying extremely hard not to start another kit , I'll have to switch from the Hobby Boss H-34A to the Italeri H-34 kit

So I'm now thinking of pairing up the Noratlas with the Sud Est (italeri) H-34A with both serving in Algeria and I could combine another stalled build of the Mach 2 Alouette II , which also operated in Algeria and finally finish her off as well

After dinner tonight I'll start glueing the Alouette cockpit tub pieces together and glue the Noratlas canopy in place as well . I'm going to add machine guns to the cabin windows on the H-34 build , so that will save me time glueing any windows in place and according to some sites on the net I was looking at , the troop seats were often folded or even removed on many French H-34A's operating in Algeria . I can glue the seat bases back the wall and not worry about the seat backs . I'm aimimg for some WIP pic's tomorrow .

John .

I really like that Noratlas! It's very eyecatching.

I have dusted off the Amiot and put some work into it the last few days. Cockpit is done, canopies masked, and I should wrap up major assembly tommorow. I will save the pictures for then.

Thanks, Budd

Helo H-34

Thank's Vance

I'm sure the others have already mentioned this but by far you are the most popular (benevolent dictator) GB director on FSM ...

...

Awwww shucks! You're making me blush!

Liking the look of the Noratlas with that big cargo bay open. Any plans for 1/72 cargo bound for the desert?

I had a little bit of a look on the net for 1/72 trucks to use with the Noratlas and I was trying to keep with an all french theme but could only see a Milicast resin Citroen Lorry for $30 . I couldn't see any Renault trucks in 1/72 , however one site did mention about the Dodge WC-51 and M8 Greyhound both being used by the french military . I have those in the stash

I'm thinking of having the Dodge unloading supplies from the Noratlas with some Black Dog resin Box's and Food Supplies

I can easierly make some pallets from plastic strip for the crates and food supplies to sit on , should look okay .

I started putting together the Mach 2 Alouette II helicopter , Oh my , this is not an easy kit to build ;

Instruction Sheet...

I carefully cut most of the parts from the sprue with a razor blade as I was worried about many of the pieces breaking in half

Mach 2's instructions can be a little light on detail sometimes and with this kit I found myself guessing where pieces were to fit , as the actual fit of the parts isn't really the best . So I ended up using super glue applied with tooth pics so parts would stay together

I took me quite a while to figure out how the tail boom fitted to the main frame around the cockpit tub

It appears I managed to get most bits glued into the right places , I hope .

I'll airbrush the frame section next and fit the cockpit tub seperatly . I dipped the canopy halves in some future last night , hopfully they will fit without too many issues .

I didn't get to glueing the Noratlas canopy in place as yet , I was busy trying to wrap my brain around the Alouette II assembly . Once the canopy is place , the Noratlas will be ready for masking .

I'll aim for more WIP's tomorrow

John .

John, lol, have we talked you into a diorama?!?! Adding the supplies + WC51 and Greyhound would really bring that cargo carrier to life. You seem to have all sorts of store to work with. I love where you are taking this one.

And the Aloutte! Man, I can feel your pain. (How are your eyes, btw?)  The smallest kit I've ever put together was a 1/72 MD51, and the details were very VERRY fine, I can only imagine what you are dealing with, all those cross-brace structures. Sawing the parts away from the spurs may well have been 1/2 the battle.

The canopy and clear nose piece are glued on the Noratlas

The nose piece is a little undersize in width but also sticks out a touch at the front where it joins the front bottom edge of the main canopy , creating a slight step . It's not a big issue and I was thinking of how to overcome this tne next time I build a Noratlas as I have four more in the stash . The best way to flush up the join where the canopy meets the nose piece would be move the canopy slightly forward to bring it flush . However it probably would be better to do this at the early stages of construction so I could add a small piece of plastic stip to the fuselage rear cockpit section to make up the difference so there wouldn't be any gaps at the back of the canopy . I'll leave mine the way it is and perhaps run some masking tape around the bottom edge of the main canopy for protection and lightly sand the edge of the nose piece for a semi-flush join ; Should help look a little better .

On the Alouette II I airbrushed several light coats of Gunze H-78 Olive drab to the frame section and some of the seperate parts

The canopy halves went together okay I guess , However I did have to remove the rear wall of the cockpit as mine didn't angle back far enough  for the canopy to fit correctly

One thing I did goof on is the width of the two cross members which the landing ski's are attached . I failed to notice on the instructions , halfway done the page on the right  "pour les versions roues ou ski-25mm

I take it that this means that the total width of the frame section under the cockpit should be 25mm ; I didn't cut mine and it currently measures 35mm .......oops

I better trim the cross members and re-attach the ski's ......

John .

I had to cut the previous post short as the oldies were requesting their morning tea of coffee and cake .

Anyway I was giong to mention that untill these past couple of days where I've been researching on google about the aircraft used in the French Algerian war , I had never given much thought about this conflict .

The family have curtailed my spending for the rest of the year on any new kits , however I am allowed to buy decals and I saw these two sets over at Hannants

French H-19 in Algeria

French T-6G Texans in Algeria

I ordered both decal sheets and thought they would go nicely with these two stalled builds ;

Italeri H-19 and Airfix T-6 texan

Obvisiously these are not Fench built aircraft but might look good in the background behind the Noratlas , H-34A and Alouette .

Most of my kit stash is located in the back room where my spraybooth is and while waiting for paint to dry in between airbrushing coats of olive drab last night , I spied three more kits from the stash which actually have markings for French aircraft operations in algeria

Italeri A-26C Invader and H-21C Gunship with the Heller T-28 Fennec

Again their not French built aircraft but would do nicely for an overall dioramma . I have the Piasecki H-21 Helicopter book by Brandt & Davies and the is a nice chapter on the French Flying Banana with some really awesome pic's of the H-21 in Algeria . Even one with President Charles DeGaulle just arriving in Algeria

Vive la France !

John .

I just went and checked the other H-21 'flying banana' stash of kits and discovered that another Italeri kit has marking for the French Navy in Algeria

Italeri provide both small and larger tail fins in their H-21 kits and I'm thinking of borrowing a pair of the larger type to use on a stalled Hobbycraft H-21 as according to the H-21 reference book the vertol 44 version had the larger fins . Anyone know what the colours would be on President DeGaulles helicopter ?

If I add some putty to the top of his hat , do you think this guy would pass for "charlie" ???

John .

John you're absolutaly out of the world  for all subject you have at least 3 box of them 

Not posting frequently but following your strategic and high class work 

noratlas and alouette are favourtes between these french things

Poor update about the nieuport:

Refined the engine cover with milliput and put on the engine conduct on the back of cilynders

After primed whit grey

At the next

Interesting subjects, as always John. He doesn't look too much like Charlie at the moment, but I'm sure you can weave some magic on it.

Cheers

Tony

Tonight I did a little glueing and pre-assembly on the two Noratlas support vehicles ,

WC-51

The axle and suspension parts on the WC-51 fitted in place without too many issue's . I'll airbrush the chassie frame , cab and rear tray as seperate pieces and then glue them together after painting .

The M8 Greyhound axles and suspension were a little more difficult to get glued in place , especially the front axle ; It's quite fiddly to get all three parts lined up correctly when glueing

I managed to eventually get my undercarriage in place and the main turret with the cannon fitted as well

 I'll let the glue set over night on the greyhound axles and suspension and tomorrow I glue the top cover in place with the turret .

Interestingly , there are more parts to the WC-51 truck than the Greyhound but I found the M8 to be a more difficult build .

More WIP's tomorrow

John .

John... look at all those fiddlybits!!!

Not much of an update but an update none the less .

I airbrushed a few coats of Gunze H-78 Olive drab on the WC-51 and M8 Greyhound tonight

I shortened the two cross members on the Alouette II so the overall width is now 25mm and I masked the canopy/cockpit tub . Tomorrow I'll airbrush a few coats of flat black to the canopy frame lines first and while there is black in the airbrush I'll do the tyres for both vehicles . Then finish off the Alouette canopy with the olive drab .

I was looking through the Lennart Lundh Sikorsky H-34 book , (my favourite of all my reference books) , there's a chapter on the French 'Sud Est' H-34's with a front on pic of the H-34A Pirate in Algeria

It's a great pic as it shows how far out from the fuselage the weapons racks stick out . I went looking on the net for additional info on the H-34A Gunships and found this site with some awesome close up pic's of the weapons set-up

http://www.aha-helico-air.asso.fr/pirate.htm

Unfortunatly it seems that I can't right click and copy some of the images into the computer . Is there a way around this , as some of those H-34A Pirate photo's are just incredible and I would really like to have them in my H-34 reference library . Anyone know how to copy those images from the link above ?

On a slightly different note and not quite related to French built helicopters but I was reading more in my H-21 reference book about the H-21 "Flying Banana" in French service in Algeria and came across this little bit of info relating to helicopter operations

It's interesting how the troop seats were often removed  and item #6 is a bit of an eye opener .....

John .,

John- That Alouette is really cool! That's going to be awesome when it's finished.

Time for me to finally post something here:

Cockpit all done up.

I tried Doog's method of painting it black, then going over with the interior color. I'm not sure it worked for me as well as it does for him, but oh well. Other than that I just added some highlights and worn spots with light grey and silver, as well as adding belts.

Couple shots showing the pit inside the fuselage:

 And here it is all buttoned up. For as much sanding down as I did, I'm surprised it went together so well. Probably because I used an insane amount of glue!

 Still needs some touching up in a couple spots, then I should be ready to start painting! Hopefully the worst part of this build is behind me, though the decals look kind of scary. Also, I have only done a camo job once, and it turned out ok at best. Oh well, here goes...

Thanks, Budd

John - can't right-click? You could do the old "print screen" trick, then paste the resulting image into a photo-editing program & crop it from there (ideally), or paste it into a doc file.  Let me know if you have trouble with it.

Budd - wow, look at all that glass! making quick progress now.

WOW Budd , that's some wicked masking you've done there ....

Vance , for some reason I don't have a printer icon at the top of my computer page . I've only ever right clicked and the small box appears for 'save it now' or print . I even tried the click and hold the left mouse button to highlite the section I was looking at but the same warning comes up .

I took a few pic's with my digital camera of the screen with some of the images I wanted but the quality isn't all that great . Here's a pic , not quite as zoomed in as the other pic's I took

I'm a bit of a dunce when it comes to computers and different programes , so I'm not sure what to do about getting the images uploaded .

On another note , I won a Hobbycraft French Skyraider on ebay the other day , I'll have to sneek that one past the family when it arrives in a couple of weeks and I spied a couple of Italeri F4U-7 Corsair in my stash last night which is marked as a French bird . Looks like I'll have plenty of background aircraft to park behind the H-34A , Alouette II and Noratlas .

John .

I saw these rocket tubes over at Hannants

They look similar to the ones positioned high on both sides of the H-34A Pirate

The lower armament is some type of SNEB and LRAC swival rocket pod/tube ; The only SNEB pods I have are from the 1/72 Hasegawa AV-8A Harrier kit but I'm not sure if they would be suitable . I ordered some of those Airwaves rocket launchers anyway , so that will be a start on my H-34A Pirate .

Another interesting pic I came across on the net was this French H-34 , with what seems to be a troop cabin door on the port side of the helicopter or has the image been modified ?

I have lot's of pic's on file of the H-34/Wessex but I have never seen one with a port side door before !

John .

John- Cool photos! Makes me want to do one...

Vance- I don't know about "quick progress." Just low parts count, lots of glue, and decent fit since I spent so much time sanding everything down to shape.

My first time doing a complex canopy like this. What a pain! They aren't perfect, but given the size of the masks, I won't complain.

Thanks, Budd

Watched a few scenes from Full Metal Jacket today. The scene with the psycho door gunner in it, theyre flying in a wessex. " Any person that runs is a VC anyone that stands still is a well disciplined VC"

Yes Scorp ,

A wessex dressed up to pass as a USMC Sea Horse

John .

So was it a wessex or a seahorse in the movie? (i cant really spot too many differences, im not really a chopper guy)

The helicopter in the movie 'Full Metal Jacket' is definitely a Wessex and a bit off an odd duck in that as well .

This pic allbeit not all that clear shows the four versions of the Wessex used by Royal Navy and Royal Airforce

The Helo on the left in the top pic is a civilian version with an unusual intake on the very front of the nose section ; Which is similar to the 'Full Metal Jacket' helicopter .

The main difference between the British Wessex and American H-34 versions are the different nose sections .

France used the early H-34 with the piston engine and the single exhaust pipe positioned low down on the port side nose section

Early American HSS-1 (Navy) and H-34A/C (Army) were similar

Later American version , particulary the USMC had a higher 3 exhaust pipe system

Westland designed their Wessex to use the Napier Gazelle gas turbine in their HAS 1/3 Wessex with two exhaust pipes either side of the nose/ engine section

Wessex HU-5's had the Rolls Royce / Bristol Siddeley Gnome Turbines with a larger single style exhaust cones angled slighty back on both sides of the nose section

The HU-5 in the pic above is really the same type of Wessex from the movie only the engine intake at the very front is different

Wessex nose profiles , HAS-1/3 at the top and centre right of page ; Australian HAS-31B Wessex centre left and the HU-5 at the bottom of the page

America did use a turbine engine version of the H-34 called the S-58T

The CIA operated some from Laos during the Vietnam War

Some U.S. Law enforcement Agencies also used the Turbine powered S-58T

S-58T nose/engine section

The last picture in Len Lundh's Sikorsky H-34 book is of these three abondoned Sud Est built H-34A's

Now thats a history lesson. Thanks for that.

No worries Scorp

I went and looked at the finished builds on page one as I had forgotten what the other GB members were building . I also notice a reference to page two where the F4U-7 Corsair is acceptable as a participant as Vought were building them exclusivly for the French .

I was doing some more research on the French wings over Algeria and saw some additional info on the T-28 Fennec (Trojan) .

According to the info above Sud Aviation were doing extensive modifications to the T-28 for use by the French Air Force to use in Algeria , so I was hopping that this might apply as a "technicality" and WIP pic's of the build would be allowed ???

John .