I'd like to get a Pz IV built as well Tony. I have 2 Flak wagons on Pz IV hulls, but no tanks. O well, should be able to fit it in next year some time. The Tiffie is coming along nicely.

Jack, that's looking nice. Some real effort going into this.

Jack: Looks good, I've tried the same thing, I think it takes some practice to get it right. Mine looked pretty horrible.

Bish and Gamera -  thank you.

In April of 1944, Britain issued S.C.C. 15 as a colour equivalent of US Olive Drab.  A very close match, only after fading was a difference readily detected, as it would become more green.  It is unknown whether Fireflies were completely repainted in this new paint, as orders specified there was to be no wasteage if the lone  purpose was to make all vehicle colours uniform.    There certainly would be a fair amount on the turret due to modifications with the new 17-pdr.  Perhaps the hull, depending on how much work was required for the seabourne invasion.

I used one of Mike Starmer's suggested colour mixes for Tamiya paints:

5 parts XF81

1 part XF58

1 part XF71

For the first spray coat, I tried something different by adding close to 50% red to the mixture, reason being two fold.  First, this would help in conveying an olive hue.  Second was sort of a test on the colour wheel theory dealing with complimentary colours.  The compliment of green is red, and mixing the two resulted in what looks close to a hull red.  This deeper shade would be useful in shadow areas while at the same time still remain vibrant.

Second, to introduce the S.C.C.15 mix onto the model, I decided to add a few drops of red into the airbrush cup.  With the smaller scale build, it was difficult to retain some semblance of the first layer without compromising coverage in non-shadow areas. (pic #2)

Finally, the original mix was applied, concentrating more on the turret.  You have to look closely, but you can see a bit more of a green tone in pic#3.

regards,

Jack

Now I didn't know that. I had always assume our vehicles were painted OD. So if I have that right, it would be possible for a Firefly to have an OD hull and an S.C.C. 15 turret.

The front of the hull would be modified on a Firefly with the adding of the armored plug in place of the bow MG. And the addition of the barrel rest/travel lock on the upper rear hull. I wonder of both of those additions would be sufficent to rate repainting the hull? Or perhaps only those areas.

Yeah, I'd never noticed the difference between US and UK OD green.

Bish, well SCC15 is in a way OD, just the British version.  I've yet to see an actual paint chip comparison photo on the net, but over at missing-lynx,  someone has posted a side by side view.   He based it on Mike Starmer's research (who has had access to paint chips). The middle sample is the British mix.

stik - thanks for reminding me, yes definitely the welded piece over the hull MG.  There is also the rear storage bin.   Though not exclusive to Fireflies, it was a British addition that would require painting.  Then there is the deep wading trunks, these too were fabricated by British  as the Americans had a different design.

I've no clue what shade of olive or green this photo is presenting, but what's interesting is the wood handle of the shovel looks to have worn paint.

regards,

Jack

American-made Shermans were delivered to our allies painted in "Lustreless olive drab enamel" (Corps of Engineers Color no.9)  For further info see: http://olive-drab.com/od_mvg_odpaint.php

 WC-54 3/4 ton ambulances at WW II Air Corps Base, Sudbury U.K. showing different shades of what should be Lustreless Olive Drab.

Jack, that is a GREAT photo, and those color chips are helpful as well! I also noticed the wear on the pioneer tools, and it also is great to see the stowage tie down straps. They look to me to be canvas webbing, very similar to the type in use during my service time.

I am in agreement with Pyr in that the Sherman there is most likely OD No.9, as it is not a Firefly and has not had to be rebuilt and repainted due to such work.

Just some great details to be seen there!!!

Yes, the tie down straps use to be leather, but at some point they were replaced with canvas webbing.

I agree, Shermans received by Britain would remain in their original factory olive paint.   The S.C.C.15 replaced S.C.C. 2 ( described as rich dark brown with a hint of ‘khaki’) and was intended  for repaints due to  overhauls, but more importantly for their own home grown vehicles such as Cromwells and Churchills.   There is still debate over how widespread it's use was in time for Normandy.

This is site that has Mike Starmer's research on British colours from all theaters:

www.mafva.net/.../Starmer%20camo.htm

regards,

Jack

we painted our pioneer tools a color simialr to the tank or jeep. i usually do mine wood and metal on models just for some contrast unless it is too much contrast then i dab some paint on to tone it down and it looks like the picture.

We used to paint the wooden handles on ours as well. They were done green and we painted the metal work black. Of course it didn't last very long.

Hey Bish, when you were in the Gulf, did you guys repaint to tools to be in Sand color also, or still keep the tools in the green/black?

that's an interesting question on painting. my thoughts lean toward 1. is this factory or "aftermarket " /in theater painting? do i have plenty of paint and time? and i look for areas for artistic license. i usually, on my don't paint camo on anything under the fenders or road wheels but i will paint tire hubs. on my M60A2s all the tools were secured in sponson boxes but i noticed the STRYKER had the tools on the outside and the LAV-III has the tools on the outside covered by a plate.

When I went we didn't paint anything, the wagon stayed in the green black scheme. But we were not their for the invasion itself. The guys we had taken over from did have their in sand colour. I don't know why I were not painted as we had more time to prepare than the others. I guess its because we were not there to do the war fighting but the peacekeeping.

Weekend was spent on designing, and then affixing my home made decals.  There is a loading number chalked in white on the front, but plan to try to replicate that later in the build using a very sharp  pencil crayon.  

Those markings that were printed on white decal paper still need their edges touched up.  These set of pics looks to have some darker hues on the vehicle, but is all due to the application of the future coat.  I have started some weathering on the lowers.  Just a couple basic washes with Flory's product, followed with some wiping away with a damp brush.

regards,

Jack

ps - forgot to mention the font used for the serial number can be found here, a free download:

http://www.dafont.com/mailart-rubberstamp.font

Jack: Looks good! The decals came out great and I love the rainmarks on the hull sides.

Well, anyway here she is. The more I look at the pigment 'sand' the more I dislike it- I'm thinking of washing all of it off. I started with a little around the running gear then figured the crew would track it up and on the vehicle. I didn't really like that so I ended up spreading it everywhere - which was probably a mistake. Anyway I thought I'd post her and ask for opinions before I tried to take it off.

Gamera, thanks for that about my build.

Regarding your's, the profile shots look fantastic!  The two top views do look washed out, maybe the camera didn't help matters here?

If you have a gloss coat underneath, you should be able to remove a good portion of the sand pigment.  Try just water first before resorting to something harsh.  This is sort of a technique Michael uses in his Tank Art books, gently brushing on thinner to remove top layers and expose original paint.

You might try some fine sandpaper in the open areas, just watch you don't obliterate any fine details.  Hope you can get it back to where you wanted it.

regards,

Jack

Jack, looking good. I like those markings, not seen that circle one before. I have not used Flory's washes on armour, but I like the look of it.

Gamera, I have been looking at that for a few minutes and can't see anything wrong. There would defiantly be sand all over the vehicle especially with all the other vehicles and troops on the beach throwing sand up every where. I really like the look you have.

If your happy for me to put one of those on the front page, I was thinking of second from bottom. If you decide to remove some of the pigment, I can always replace it.

Thanks! If you guys think it looks ok as is I'll just leave it, I've been fiddling with the thing for way too long now, I need to move on to something else!

Bish, please go ahead and use whichever photo you think works the best.

Gamera I think it really works, the wash and the dusting. The figures are a cool, nice build.

i think it looks great. put it aside and look at something new for a day or 2 before going back and making a decision. my FLAK 43 looked like crap right up to putting it on the base. i have found time makes things look better and trying to wash everything may make things worse.

Wayne, I'd like to see you do a separate tutorial on the boards you make. They really look great and enhance the model without distracting from it. I personally would like to "board" a lot of my kits.

Jack: Marvellous work, as always!

Cliff: She's looking great! I don't see anything wrong with the sand either. Everything looks damn nice to me!

Thanks guys! Since everyone so far likes the pigments I suppose I'll just leave them as is. I'm going to post her over on the armour forum later so let's see if they have any advice. Just kinda annoying that I did the whole colour modulation thing and some dot filters and with all the sand and dust you can't see any of it!!!

Wayne: Actually I've been staring at the model on and off for about two-three weeks here while fiddling with the pigments!

Gamera

Thanks guys! Since everyone so far likes the pigments I suppose I'll just leave them as is. I'm going to post her over on the armour forum later so let's see if they have any advice. Just kinda annoying that I did the whole colour modulation thing and some dot filters and with all the sand and dust you can't see any of it!!!

Wayne: Actually I've been staring at the model on and off for about two-three weeks here while fiddling with the pigments!

oh i know that feeling. i did an IFOR canadian GRIZZLEY in black and green camo using silly putty. decided to try something new and airbrushed dirt using REAL DEAL weathering "paints". i like the way it turned out but it hid a lot of stuff

Bish and Clemens, thank you.

The circle marking denotes C squadron.  I've not much info the the black centers, but seems to have appeared mid-war, and the Dieppe churchills are a good example.  I'm not sure if their use became obsolete by '44, but photos show Canadian Shermans  sill implementing  the dark centers.  I've even found an example from the Korean War (2nd pic below):

regards,

Jack

That explains it, we still use those symbols today. Triangle for A Coy/Sq, square for B, circle for C a D on its side for support and a diamond for HQ. They then have a 2 digit vehicle call sign inside the symbol.

jibber

Wayne, I'd like to see you do a separate tutorial on the boards you make. They really look great and enhance the model without distracting from it. I personally would like to "board" a lot of my kits.

thank you. actually i am working on an article for club newsletter that should easily translate into a tutorial and i pulled out a75mm PAK w/crew from an old d-day diorama, pin washed t and may do a new base mit soldaten.