US CARRIER AVIATION GROUP BUILD 2013

Canopy masking takes a bit of time to master, even if you use pre cut masks, they still have to be applied properly. And if you're frugal like me and use masking tape, well get ready for a true exercise in patience. Paint choice is also quite impprtant. Gunze Aqueous WAS the  best acrylic around- excellent properties and color selection. It is a huge shame you cant get it here in the states anymore. While their Mr Color stuff is quite similar in properties, except for NOT being an acrylic, I would only recomend it for airbrushing. But with time and experience you will get better Greg. It looks to me like your biggest problem in this case is edge chipping whe you remove the masks. Which is mostly a paint adhesion issue, not the masking.

Greg- those canopies look great for the troubles you've been having!   You can always use a new #11 blade to lightly cut the paint surface around the mask so they come off cleanly.  (nice to know after the fact, yes?)

Keep plugging away as that's the only way to progress.

And thanks everyone for the (back) support!

That canopy turned out really good! I'll post some pics of the canopy I painted with Gunze paints if you want (the one I destroyed...)

Why is Gunze Aqueous Color not available in the states anymore? I can't get any Model Master paint here, but I think I'll stick to Gunze anyway after seeing your problems with MM paints, Greg.

Stik, Dre, Clemens; Thank you for your feedback.

I had read about a light cut with a new blade prior to mask removal. Actually tried it where I could, and you are right, it does work. Where the masks didn't fit exactly right down in the corners, I could handle that. But in the other cases, guess  I need more practice!

You gents are right, I have a tendency to set my expectations high when trying something new. I'm sure this will all come easier (hopefully with less repair work) as I keep practicing. :)

I did some reading about Gunze Aqeous Color and Mr Color this morning. I think i would have liked the former very much. Still resistant to using enamels or lacquers if I can find a way around it. However, I did just get back from the LHS with some Alclad II primer to try.

My furnace (air handler) is pretty close to my makeshift paint booth. Anyone think I'm in danger of blowing up the basement with non-acryls, or should I be looking at a proper paint booth, at least with an exhaust filter? Very long run to properly exhaust it, doubt it would draw sufficiently anyway. It is very handy where it is, hate to have to move it away from the air handler. (note that it's been decades since I airbrushed enamels indoors. Back then, I don't guess I even considered the ignition issues)

Greg, I use my lacquer-thinner loaded AB about 15 feet away from my own gas-fired furnace with nary a problem...  but I also turn the furnace off during the winter before a prolonged paint session to avoid kicking up dust and to reduce the spark hazards.   I shouldn't think that acrylics are going to pose much of a flash danger unless you're fogging the air with alcohol (or lacquer thinner for that matter).

I think we all set our expectations too high initially and then we are met with the harsh realities of the learning curve, which then teaches us patience....   for me, rarely does something work right the first time I try it.

Thanks for your input, Dre. Good idea turning off the furnace during long spray sessions. Also good to know you've not, nor not heard of anyone exploding their basement. I pretty much meant should I decide to switch to non-acryls, and also in case I happen to fall in love with the Alclad primer.

Good reminder re the learning curve. I remember ancient history when I was in flight instructor (civilian) training, we had to learn the fundamentals of how a learning curve works. I always forget to apply the dips and valleys to myself! :) Let alone the starting point!

Very good results on the canopies, Greg.  I've had that paint chipping, too, on canopies I painted with enamels--probably me, being too lazy to run a knife along the edge of the mask.

SchattenSpartan

Why is Gunze Aqueous Color not available in the states anymore? I can't get any Model Master paint here, but I think I'll stick to Gunze anyway after seeing your problems with MM paints, Greg.

From what I heard from the owners of all the LHSs I frequent, it was a labeling issue, at the same time as with Tamiya paints at the same time a couple years ago. But Gunze did not relabel their Aqueous paints like Tamiya did, but they did relabel their Mr Color line. One of the local shops picked up tat line, but the others did not. Gunze acrylics are FAR superior to MM acrylics for airbrushing. The MMAs handbrush a bit better.

Just a little science about that possible painting chipping next to a mask.

A part of the problem in some cases might be the direction the blades are ground.

Knife blades are ground in this direction ((((((((((((((((((( ======================= (the curves are the stone's marks on the blade, the double dashes are the handle),,,,,,,,,,so, as you can see, you might get a snag on your tape, even with a brand new blade (this also could snag on a brand new decal on a sheet)

Scalpel blades are ground in this direction ))))))))))))))))====================== which means that you are "cutting with the grain" on a new scalpel blade.

I just learned this a few weeks ago,,,,,,,so, I am going to chuck some blades into a knife handle backwards, to use until I can purchase a scalpel and replacement blades for decal and masking work.

Rex

I'm glad you mentioned that, Rex, as I've experienced that snagging as I've used a spanking-new blade to trim around things.   A scalpel blade makes more sense, but I wonder what it'll do to my thumb as I whittle away sprue nubs.

Rex: Thanks for telling us! I had some issues with my hobby knife (Tamiya) when cutting tape. Then I switched to scalpels. I have one with a round blade for cutting pe (on a glass panel, to keep it from bending) and one with a straight blade (Nr. 11 I think?) for cutting tape and decal carrier films and another straight one for scraping off mold lines. - 3 in total. I noticed the improvement in cutting tape when using a scalpel, but never knew why it behaved in such a different way... I still keep my hobby knife for cutting bigger parts (scalpel blades shatter too easily when applying too much pressure...).

Dre: I wrap some masking tape around my scalpel blades which ends right at the point where the edge starts. That keeps me from accidently cutting myself -just touch the yellow areas only and your fingers are ferfectly safe. if you want to be as save as possible, just look where your thumb may touch the blade and put some masking tape there as well...

Just my 2 cents...

you could cut a protector out of a pop can

==||==

wrap that around the front of you knife, just behind where the blade goes into the slot, with the protrusion out over the top of the blade

that gives your thumb or finger something to press against instead of the back edge of the blade

(I actually have been trying to come up with a way to market these, but, there are too many different knife shapes and sizes out there,,,,,so, I will just give it as a modeling tip)

Rex

I never thought of wrapping the blade....      I feel like Homer Simpson.. "D'oh!"

Thanks Checkmate! It worries me a little that you, and other experienced modelers here have canopy masking issues from time to time. But in some selfish way, it is reassuring.

Almost everyone has mentioned scribing the canopy masks prior to removal. Honestly, I was looking at that as an optional maneuver. You all have officially changed my mind, I'm going to learn how to do it on the tough edges, not just the easy edges.

Rex, that is a most interesting bit of information. Dumb question , where does a mere mortal buy a proper scalpel and blades??? I would also like a straight one, and a curved one as mentioned above.

Hi again, it's Mr Disaster here with your Friday evening installment (for those of you living in the US).

Been a productive afternoon/evening. Got the right side repaired to my satisfaction, considering everything.....

That wasn't so bad after all. Got the other side done, was literally carefully removing the last bit of de-tacked Tamiya tape (not kidding, last piece) and.....

That couldn't have happened in an easier spot, now could it.

Good news is, I was half laughing whilst shooting the pics. I never realised that mistakes  screw-ups are more fun with an audience.

Would somebody please invite Murphy over to your house for a while, please?

I can get them at my LHS, but i dunno where to get some in the states...

All the masking jobs you see from me are done without scribing the edges before removing the masks... I just pull them off when I am finished with painting...

LOL, seems like we posted almost at the same time...

That paint job looks superb, Greg! It's only this last spot to save. You can do that, mate! Your Avenger looks perfect otherwise (you make me want to build mine as well...)

Just out of curiosity, shouldn't it be Friday evening in the states? It's 1:46 AM on Saturday in Austria ATM...

And who the hell is Murphy? Sorry, I don't get the reference... Something 'murican?

SchattenSpartan

I can get them at my LHS, but i dunno where to get some in the states...

All the masking jobs you see from me are done without scribing the edges before removing the masks... I just pull them off when I am finished with painting...

Hmm, and that armor plate you showed us the other day looked as crisp as crisp can be.

I don't think US LHS's would dare carry scalpels. Too many nut-cases running around over here. Somebody would have a fit, probably.

I wonder what it would take to get Gunze Aqeuous back here in the states? The online retailers seem to be listing it as 'discontinued'. Have never seen it in a HS in my life. I think Gunze is to Europe as Testors is to US?

For our esteemed host

"Murphy's Law" is "anything that can go wrong, will go wrong"

there are a bunch of corollaries,,,,,,,,such as ",,,,,,,,and will go wrong just after the store closes",,,,,,,or ,,,,,,,,",,,,,,,,,,will go wrong just after you 'call the ball' "

one guy's tag line on here, I think (might be somewhere else) is "Murphy was an optimist" lol

Ha! And I edited the 'Saturday' to 'Friday' as you were posting. Apparently I'm having so much fun, I forgot what day it is.

I meant Murphy of 'Murphy's Law" fame (which, in case this isn't a law in Austria, states "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong". I think somebody alluded to this earlier in this thread, must have made a synapse or two fire at my end.

Thanks again for the encouragement. I'll let another layer of paint dry overnight, then take to the new bad spot tomorrow. Hoping to have this gloss-coated and ready for decals by late November so it can be done by the holidays. Ha ha. I think?

Edit: and I cross-posted with Rex. Must be cross-post night.

Thanks for the explanation, Rex!

I have problems understanding some sayings here on the forums sometimes, as they are all different then the Austrian/German ones. I'm trying to adapt though...

Thanks to you as well, Greg! I am sure you manage to save your bird. I'll have a look for online shops carrying Gunze paints in the states.

Yep, Gunze is kinda like Testors for Europe! I am one lucky ***, right?

Scalpels in the US can be purchased or ordered by anyone that carries Squadron tools

Mega hobby is one quick look, on their Tools and Supplies, knives and blades page (toward the bottom)

www.swann-morton.com/.../7.php Swann-Morton are the ones I want to find in the US or by mail from Britain, though,,,,,,they used to advertise a lot in SAMI, don't know if they still do,,,,,,,,but, just like X-acto and the others,,,,,they have lots of shape and handle options

Rex

I just use surgical Scalpel handles with modelling blades. Tthey are easier to get because they are not as sharp as the surgical ones (but still damn sharp compared to normal hobby knifes)

Thanks for that Rex, I enjoy having stuff to figure out how to procure. Thanks for the specific tip about Swann-Morton. BTW, funny quote, "Murphy was an optimist".

Clemens, I forgot to say thanks for your nice comments about my repair paint job so far. I think you will enjoy the Avenger or whatever version you build very much.

Any by all means, if you find a source for the Gunze here in the US, do tell!

Ok, after some research I found not a single seller in the US that carries Gunze paints... You could order them at ebay in Europe or Japan, but You have to pay higher shipping costs... They are worth it IMO, but you have to decide for yourself... If you order them, I'd suggest ordering every paint you might need at least twice. I'd also suggest that you paint only the outside of your models with Gunze paint, as you have no problems at all with painting the inside of your models using Model Master paints.

I apologize for my failure...

That is not a failure! Really nice of you to have gone to all the trouble to research, Clemens. Truly do appreciate it.

I think ordering paint overseas is a bit much for me, as great as the Gunze sounds. I still haven't gotten over the loss of our LHS's over here. I was in the hobby decades ago and they were there. Get back in, and they're all gone. Talk about not appreciating what we had!!!

My point being it still bothers me I have to wait 3-7 days to order stuff online. I'd go nuts waiting for overseas shipments! (although I must admit a few months ago, I ordered directly from Eduard before I realized my new favorite supplier, Sprue Brothers has all of their stuff. D'oh! :)

Having said that and bored you to death, what do you suppose the shelf life is on the Gunze acrylics? (see, I can't leave anything alone)

Ordering overseas ain't that bad at all. I am ordering all the stuff I can't get here in Austria in the states. I have to wait 2-4 weeks, but this hobby is about patience, isn't it?

I'll tell you if I find some seller in the states (although I doubt I will).