US CARRIER AVIATION GROUP BUILD 2013

Started the wings of the F-4B/G.  Painted the seats but lost the pictures so I'll take more.

Ed, good to see WIP pics. Looking like progress. And I'm looking fwd to trying that pre-shading thing one day myself.

Clemens comment about preferring oil washes has prompted a question.....

Here's where I'm at; Maybe ready for some sort of wash/weather/whatever, but I have a situation.....

My exterior paint job is very rough / grainy / sandpaper like. Mostly a result of getting in a hurry and spraying from too far away and too much pressure methinks. My pre-decal gloss coat was a disappointment. For whatever reason I opted to spray on Testors gloss acryl instead of Future, and it didn't gloss up very well (even after repeat coats) and didn't smooth out the poor finish at all.

So the decal job isn't what I'd hoped for, rather bumpy especially on the big ones (no surprise to you guys, big surprise to me).

So finally, my questions. I sprayed on a fairly heavy Future 'decal sealing' coat last night. It is now what I would call a satin finish, not smooth gloss. Should I spray another coat (or coats) of future and risk filling seam lines and stuff, or will what I have be good enough to 'seal' the decals?

Then on to the final finishing; Greg (Bale) mentioned to try the acryl wash on a test kit and I think that is sound advice and I don't think I want to risk ruining my TBM at this point as whilst it is not quite what I was hoping for, it is at least display worthy as 'my first build back' and I really don't want to do anything to make it worse than it already is.

I am thinking of trying an oil wash (I have some very limited experience within the past few months, but not on large exterior surfaces). I have some confidence I can try it without too much risk.

Another option would be to lay on a final dull coat, cut my losses, reduce damage risk, and maybe try some light pastel weathering over the dullcoat.

The Catch-22 is that sooner or later I am going to have to bite the bullet and attempt a wash to work the seam lines, and that's going to happen at the end of a build anyway so at some point there will be risk.

Sorry about the long post again, any thoughts?

An oil-wash should work fine on a satin (=semi gloss?) finish. Most of the Gunze paints I use are semi gloss and all the washes for the interior don't cause any problems. you can always wipe off any excess with a Cloth dampened in turpentine...

Just be a little more careful on the white areas if you want them to look clean. The oil-wash tends to stain light colors a bit if you don't apply it on a gloss finish. If you want it to look dirty, you don't have to do that. You can remove most of the stains by rubbing the surface with a cloth and turpentine though...

Thanks for your advice and info, Clemens. Caution noted regarding the whites. I shall be very careful with the off-white bottom, if I proceed with oils.

BTW, right, satin finish is a US English term for semi-gloss. Usually implies a very slightly rough (satin-like) finish, I think.

I'm always happy if I can help someone out.

Thanks for clarifying that satin/semi-gloss stuff. I don't really know if I learned British or American English at school... I think it was a mix of both. Most of my English skills are self-tought BTW...

Hopefully you learned British English. We've really butchered that lovely language over here over the years. Hey, I get to pick on the US since I'm a native. :)

You should be proud of your English, you do very well. I'd not have known it's not your native language aside from your asking about odd American sayings from time to time, actually.

Thanks mate! This place helps a lot in improving my English skills actually!

I've been working on the resin seats for my Prowler. They've got quite a bit of nice detail, and painting it has driven me appropriately crosseyed.

Thought I'd post a sequence showing the steps:

In this scale, of course, labels are just rectangular blobs, and stenciling is dashes of white applied with a pinpoint.

Not to worry---I have no intention of posting every bit of work in such excruciating detail. But I told Greg I'd post a bit just to show the process.

All comments or catcalls welcome.

Those seats look really nice, Greg!

SchattenSpartan

Those seats look really nice, Greg!

I'll say they do! Holy cow, four of them, and in 1/72nd scale. Amazing detail work, way over my pay grade, current or ever I think.

Really appreciate your taking the time to post these, Greg. It really helps me to begin to grasp the steps to take to achieve a desired result. There is a lot more to fine detail painting than I ever realised.

Thank you!

BTW, I had no idea the EA-6B is a four crew aircraft. And I also had no idea I was looking at 1/72nd scale 'til I cheated and looked at your entry info on page one. I was surprised, to say the least.

Greg

BTW, I had no idea the EA-6B is a four crew aircraft. And I also had no idea I was looking at 1/72nd scale 'til I cheated and looked at your entry info on page one. I was surprised, to say the least.

Same here mate! I had a look at the front page as well. I thought it was 1/48th, but I kinda remembered it being 1/72nd... truly impressive!

Greg

Holy cow, four of them, and in 1/72nd scale. Amazing detail work, way over my pay grade, current or ever I think.

Highly unlikely. All it takes is a pointy brush, a reasonably steady hand, decent eyesight (or magnification) and a little practice. Really. [The ability to slow one's heartbeat and respiration like a ninja master is highly overrated.]

Without giving one of those awful "When I was a young whipper-snapper...." stories, I started trying this stuff back when there was no pre-colored PE or aftermarket tiny stencilling decals available. (Don't get me wrong, I love those things.) It was a fun and challenging exercise in problem-solving and, hey, it turned out to be not that hard. You'll pick it up in no time. And it looks cool.

Thank you Greg, and Clemens, for the nice words.

Thanks for showing us your process Greg.  I too am amazed at the level of detail you were able to get on such tiny pieces.

Wow!  Some great detail work in this GB!  Man, you guy s are good!  I'm still learning and coming along.  Here are a couple of the Dauntless.  I'm just bout ready to gloss coat it for the decals, and after the decals, the weathering and finishing touches.  Not too much longer!

Eagle90

My apologies everyone.  I REALLY need to get a camera and stop using phone for pics posted.

Eagle90

Way I look at it, Eagle, any pic is better than no pic. It's fun to watch the progress of others, and a picture is indeed worth a thousand words. (A saying that I, as a hopeless rambler, should probably take to heart ).

Your Dauntless is coming along just dandy. And all those hand-drilled brake holes still impress me.

Greg

Way I look at it, Eagle, any pic is better than no pic. It's fun to watch the progress of others, and a picture is indeed worth a thousand words. (A saying that I, as a hopeless rambler, should probably take to heart ).

Your Dauntless is coming along just dandy. And all those hand-drilled brake holes still impress me.

Very true sir!  Thanks for the kind words too.  In the long run, the brake holes may be the best part I did!

Thanks again!

Eagle90

Gregbale- thanks for posting those along-the-way seat photos!   I like to see how other's do their work.

That's really nice detail you've got going.   I'm still trying to decide whether to buy that new 1/32 A-6...(who am I kidding... I'm already sold on it, I just need to make the purchase).

Eagle90- that's getting closer to done.   I can't tell by the pics- have you painted the engine face?

Dre

Gregbale- thanks for posting those along-the-way seat photos!   I like to see how other's do their work.

That's really nice detail you've got going.   I'm still trying to decide whether to buy that new 1/32 A-6...(who am I kidding... I'm already sold on it, I just need to make the purchase).

Eagle90- that's getting closer to done.   I can't tell by the pics- have you painted the engine face?

Thanks DRE.  I did the normal color for it, but will do some detailing on it before I put the prop on.  I've had it masked while ABing the exterior, so nothing but the blah color on it right now.  With it being so small, I was thinking of a little wash to try and accent any detail in it or maybe just do some charcoal pencil and brush highlights.  That was the first "weathering" thing I ever tried and I us it a lot since I'm familiar with it.

Eagle90

'blah color', lol.  

It is often hard to detail up something that isn't very colorful in real life.   I learned this in the wheel wells of the Tomcat- it's all glossy white with very little color.   Since I like to detail paint tiny stuff, that was frustrating because I couldn't go nuts with paints.  A dark, oily wash will go a long way in adding some life in there- good plan.

Maybe a little black rectangle with white squiggles (like Gregbale did for his bang seats) to make a data plate on the reduction gearbox?

Latest update:  Skyhawk is in the decalling stage.  Finish came out as good as I hoped.  I sprayed 2 very light coats of Mr. Color "Blue Angels Blue" cut with 50% Mr. Leveling thinner over Mr. Surfacer 1200 that was polished with 12000 grain.  It came out smooth and shiny.  A coat of Future gave it the perfect sheen.  The intake inlets and leading edge slats were painted with Alclad polished aluminum over MM acrylic gloss black, again polished with 12000 grain.  Everything on the finish just pops.  I'm decaling it with a mix of Yellowhammer and kit decals.  I expect to have this one finished off soon!

Dre

'blah color', lol.  

It is often hard to detail up something that isn't very colorful in real life.   I learned this in the wheel wells of the Tomcat- it's all glossy white with very little color.   Since I like to detail paint tiny stuff, that was frustrating because I couldn't go nuts with paints.  A dark, oily wash will go a long way in adding some life in there- good plan.

Maybe a little black rectangle with white squiggles (like Gregbale did for his bang seats) to make a data plate on the reduction gearbox?

 

Dre, I used Tamiya paints on the Dauntless, what would you use as a dirty wash?  I tried an "experimental" wash and it was a disaster!  I like the data plate idea too!  Thanks!

Eagle90

Eagle: Nice work on the Dauntless! I'd suggest a heavy black oil-wash and some drybrushing with steel paint...

Stu: Can't wait to see some pics of that bird!

Eagle90- before we recommend a wash, could you tell us what went wrong with your experimental wash?

Knowing what didn't work can be more informative than knowing what does.

SchattenSpartan

Eagle: Nice work on the Dauntless! I'd suggest a heavy black oil-wash and some drybrushing with steel paint...

Stu: Can't wait to see some pics of that bird!

Thank you sir!  And thank you for the tips!  I'm going to try that!

Eagle90

Dre

Eagle90- before we recommend a wash, could you tell us what went wrong with your experimental wash?

Knowing what didn't work can be more informative than knowing what does.

DRE, well, I had the Star Wars Federation Droids put together and used a tan acrylic to paint them.  I read if you use an acrylic paint to use an enamel wash and vise versa.  So I mixed up just a little bit of a black enamel wash to highlight the detail on the droids.  It started to dissolve the paint!  Just for giggles (I had nothing to lose at this point), I made an acrylic wash.  It did not mess with the paint, but it didn't seem to do a real good job of highlighting anything.  So I figured I'd ask how you did yours.  I know, old fart don't know nothing, but I'm old school and you know what they say about old dogs and new tricks! 

Thanks for the help!

Eagle90

disclaimer- washes are not my strong point when weathering...

What did you use to thin that enamel based wash?   Most folks use high-quality mineral spirits for that as other thinners (lacquer, enamel and generic 'paint thinner') are too aggressive (as you found out).

You can use a solvent-based wash, but I find that fine-tuning it after application is a lot more difficult to control than a water-based wash.   Since the solvents evaporate so fast, they leave "tide marks" around details that are hard (for me) to remove or tidy up.  They can be used to great effect, but I haven't had that much success with that type..

But the acrylic tube paints from Winsor & Newton are very easy to use over enamels and they should be OK over a thoroughly sealed acrylic paint job.   Over a coat of Future, they'll bead up and run right off the paint surface, but a drop or two of dish detergent can break the surface tension so that the wash flows better into the panel lines.  The nice thing about using these acrylics is that once dried, they are easily cleaned up with a water dampened cloth or QTip-type ear bud.

If you lay on too much of the water wash, it can (and will) fog or cloud the Future, but can be fixed by sealing in the wash with another coat of Future.   Also, this water wash is really fragile, so beware that handling the model so you don't accidentally wipe off all that hard work.  I recommend sealing this kind of wash.

But for ease of use and fixability, I would recommend a water-based wash because if it goes all wrong you can just wipe it off.

Don't worry about not knowing this stuff- I'm still trying to figure it out myself!  For every good wash-n-weather I get, I have about 3 or 4 bad examples.

Dre

disclaimer- washes are not my strong point when weathering...

What did you use to thin that enamel based wash?   Most folks use high-quality mineral spirits for that as other thinners (lacquer, enamel and generic 'paint thinner') are too aggressive (as you found out).

You can use a solvent-based wash, but I find that fine-tuning it after application is a lot more difficult to control than a water-based wash.   Since the solvents evaporate so fast, they leave "tide marks" around details that are hard (for me) to remove or tidy up.  They can be used to great effect, but I haven't had that much success with that type..

But the acrylic tube paints from Winsor & Newton are very easy to use over enamels and they should be OK over a thoroughly sealed acrylic paint job.   Over a coat of Future, they'll bead up and run right off the paint surface, but a drop or two of dish detergent can break the surface tension so that the wash flows better into the panel lines.  The nice thing about using these acrylics is that once dried, they are easily cleaned up with a water dampened cloth or QTip-type ear bud.

If you lay on too much of the water wash, it can (and will) fog or cloud the Future, but can be fixed by sealing in the wash with another coat of Future.   Also, this water wash is really fragile, so beware that handling the model so you don't accidentally wipe off all that hard work.  I recommend sealing this kind of wash.

But for ease of use and fixability, I would recommend a water-based wash because if it goes all wrong you can just wipe it off.

Don't worry about not knowing this stuff- I'm still trying to figure it out myself!  For every good wash-n-weather I get, I have about 3 or 4 bad examples.

Thanks DRE.....uh, Future to seal before the wash?  oooppps.  I didn't seal the paint.   I just went to a washin'!  Memo to me.....duh!!!!!!!!!  Thanks so much for the walk through!  I think my next one will turn out better! 

Eagle90

That's not necessarily a mistake- you can do a wash over an unsealed paint job and Tamiya paints are pretty durable once dry.  But..... unless you're using a high-gloss paint to start with, you'd want to do a gloss coat of some kind before decaling to avoid silvering and other nasties that happen to decals.   Also, flat paints will trap more of the pigment particles and take on a color change and a dirtier aspect than will gloss paints.

You should do washes and weathering after the decals so that they blend into the finish instead of looking freshly painted-on over the weathering (I learned this the hard way...).

There's so many things that we learn on this model so that the next will be, hopefully, better.