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RAF 100th Anniversay GB

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  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 6:51 PM

Eric & guys: Thanks! I knew a little about the deployment of Commonwealth troops to Europe and North Africa but learned a good bit there.

BD: Looks really really good there! After my 1/48th Nieport it will be a while before I build up the courage to try another biplane- nice work!

 

I have been slowly decaling. I thought this post Second World War scheme would be easier since no invasion stripes. But still applying the decals for the large ID numbers and letting them partly dry so I could cut them without tearing and have them lay down snuggly was a bit of a task. Still they came out fine.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    August 2015
  • From: the redlands Fl
Posted by crown r n7 on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:07 PM

gamera that looks real smooth .I started masking the meteor I hope this time this build isnt FUBR !!

 

 

 Nick.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, January 24, 2018 8:25 PM

Brandon, that wing configuration sounds way too complicated for me, but as Bish said, looks like you are having no trouble with it.

Eric, interesting info. Reading things like that reminds me of why they call it a "world" war. What a mess.

Gammy, that underside looks very good. Looks like you did a dandy job matching the yellow leading edges with the outline of the roundel. I am, at this point, so far off it's goofy. I'm horrible at paint mixing. I added a tiny bit of red to my yellow with a toothpick and somehow ended up with flourescent pink. Clueless. Ten zillion dropper thingies of Vallejo, I'd think something would match. Cowboy

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, January 25, 2018 2:06 AM

EBergerud

Short history essay coming. I've long been paid for writing this kind of thing, so plunging into it is a kind of occupational hazard. Avoid if you like.

Commonwealth countries were viewed after WWI as central to any future British war effort - something London had to worry about during the late 30s. One of the reason that Chamberlain had such broad support for "appeasement" was that it was wildly popular in the Commonwealth countries. In all of them there was talk, often heard in the isolationist circles in the USA, warning their governments not to shed blood to save the British Empire. As it was Canada, Oz and NZ all declared war on Germany in 1939 with the UK. But they all supported the war effort with conditions. Full conscription for overseas service took place only in 1943-44 in Oz and Canada. There were, however, large numbers of volunteers. Oz insisted that their units be under Australian command, but allowed their people to directly join the RAF or RN. Bomber Command in particular was very dependent upon Commonwealth volunteers. (Should note that New Zealand was the most cooperative, probably because so many people were first or second generation immigrants. It was the only Commonwealth country that had strong supporters of a hard line policy against Hitler.) Pearl Harbor upset part of the applecart. Australia had raised four divisions of volunteers to serve overseas - Australian Imperial Forces (AIF). Three were serving in the Mideast. (6th, 7th, 9th AIF) Churchill lost his cookies and persuaded Canberra to send the fourth (8th) to Singapore at the last minute where it was lost in the debacle. Oz very publically seperated itself from London and appealed to the US for support. They brought home the 6th and 7th AIF immediately much to Churchill's dismay. They asked for Douglas MacArthur to serve as CinC figuring (correctly) that his high standing in the US would draw US forces to Oz. (Not many - the SW Pacific was not much higher up the strategic totem pole than CIB. MacArthur bowed to necessity and specialized in economy of force until Leyte.) Only with reluctance did Oz PM Curtin allow Montgomery to borrow the 9th AIF for Alamein - the price was the allocation to Oz of the badly crippled 1st Marine Division from Guadalcanal in December. (You can bet Montgomery would have cherished an Australian corps for the campaign in France. The 9th AIF returned to Oz immediately after Alamein. However he had a Canadian equivalent.) The result of all of this was the completely unplanned allied offensive in the Southwest Pacific which ultimately split Japanese defenses in two and largely explained what was considered by Marshall and company to be impossible in early 1944: the defeat of Japan in 1945. 

While all of this was going on Commonwealth volunteers (notably the Canadian Navy) were aiding British combat forces and helping to feed allied armies and Britain itself. They paid a price. Both Canada and Australia lost approximately 40,000 men KIA (50% or so of Australian battle casualties were in Europe: 7,000 perished in Japanese POW camps, the remainder of combat deaths came fighting the Japanese in New Guinea) and New Zealand suffered 11,000 killed, mostly in Europe. It's worth noting that the UK and Commwealth forces all participated in the Cold War. It's also worth pointing out that a major result of WWII was to accelerate the full psychological independence of the Commonwealth nations from Britain.   

Eric

 

We won the war and lost the Empire. Funny how that works out.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, January 25, 2018 2:06 AM

Gamera

Eric & guys: Thanks! I knew a little about the deployment of Commonwealth troops to Europe and North Africa but learned a good bit there.

BD: Looks really really good there! After my 1/48th Nieport it will be a while before I build up the courage to try another biplane- nice work!

 

I have been slowly decaling. I thought this post Second World War scheme would be easier since no invasion stripes. But still applying the decals for the large ID numbers and letting them partly dry so I could cut them without tearing and have them lay down snuggly was a bit of a task. Still they came out fine.

 

Looking good G, really coming along nicely.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Australia
Posted by taxtp on Thursday, January 25, 2018 6:10 AM

Nice work on another of my favourite aircraft Cliff. It's interesting to me that the roundels underneath the wings had yellow rings too, I don't recall seeing that on another aircraft.

Regards
Tony

I'm just taking it one GB at a time.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, January 25, 2018 7:48 AM

Hey thanks guys! 

Greg: Oh wow, pink!?! Honestly the yellow here is just plain Testors Model Master acrylic yellow right out of the bottle. I didn't even think about matching the roundels at the time. Good luck, I'm sure you'll get a good match, it's just a matter of fiddling with it till it looks right. 

Tony: Now that you mention it I'm not sure I've seen yellow outlines on the roundels before. Then again this is only the second RAF aircraft from the '50s I've built, all my others have been '30s-'40s Second World War era. All the roundels have the same yellow outline, top of the wing and the sides of the fusilage too.  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Thursday, January 25, 2018 1:19 PM

Hi Cliff, looking really good there.  Yellow outer rings on all roundels, this was something proposed by 2TAF in Dec. 1944, but only in February of the following year made official through the proper channels.   Basically the yellow was added  to aid in visibilty and avoid friendly fire, from both air and land.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, January 25, 2018 2:07 PM

Thanks Jack, guess they just kept the yellow on there after the war ended. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Thursday, January 25, 2018 5:32 PM
A yellow circle to protect against friendly fire? Not quibbling with your data, but that was no easy chore. I suppose it made sense to remove the red circle inside the USN white star in the Pacific: suppose it looked a bit like a meatball. I wish someone would write an analytical history of camo in WWII. I've got a very complete book on USAAF markings/camo that has chapter/verse on every change. But there's little explanation as to why the change was made. Why did the USAAF decide to call for a whole range of new colors in 1943 (including a new olive drab) and three months later decide they didn't want camo at all for most planes? The Brits changed whole schemes - what was the reason why? Friendly fire certainly motivated the application of "invasion stripes" (some apparently dark green instead of black) in June 44. The 9th AF also tried to use P-38s for ground attack close to the US beaches (Jugs a little inland) because everyone would know a P-38, right? Wrong in many cases. The itch to pull triggers overwhelmed aircraft recognition training throughout the war. (Of course, friendly ground troops were often strafed by their own planes.) But details will often be lacking. There's a lot of information about WWII that's simply not there at all. I worked on both WWII and Vietnam - the US was breaking in computers during Vietnam and the records available dwarf in quantity those created by WWII typewriters. Of course megatons of information is now sitting in huge warehouses where it will probably never be disturbed - think of it as a digital way to destroy data. Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Thursday, January 25, 2018 8:46 PM

Eric, I know what you mean, it would be great if everything could be under one book cover.   I found this one to be pretty good for RAF fighters of WW2:

Also found this a while ago for Coastal Command, but it sort of overlaps with fighters and have referred to it from time to time;

http://hrmtech.com/SIG/articles/coastal_cam.asp

Still though with the Typhoon discussed above, being part of 2nd Tac (they took it upon themselves to add the yellow rings to the wing insignia), it required separate searches.  Chris Thomas is a very good researcher/author with this latter subject.  Here is one of his response in person on another forum:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archive/index.php?t-14808.html

Anyhow, the addition of the yellow outer ring on RAF roundels is just an extension of the idea already implemented on the fuselage roundels.  It was to make the insignia more noticeable on an otherwise camouflaged surface.  

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, January 25, 2018 9:21 PM

EBergerud
I wish someone would write an analytical history of camo in WWII. I've got a very complete book on USAAF markings/camo that has chapter/verse on every change. But there's little explanation as to why the change was made. Why did the USAAF decide to call for a whole range of new colors in 1943 (including a new olive drab) and three months later decide they didn't want camo at all for most planes?  
 

 

Take a look at Dana Bell’s ”Air Force Colors” series for the full explanation. In a nutshell the 1943 colors were a result of standardization across the board for Army and Navy Aircraft colors, hence the new “ANA” prefix to the color numbers. As well as for colors to be used on Lend Lease Aircraft. Equivelants were no longer to be used, rather new ANA paints would substitute for the US made RAF/RN FAA Colors. It was not just a USAAF decision. And they were not happy with Olive Drab ANA 319, which  based off of the Army Ground Forces shade #8, and not off of Dark Olive Drab 41.

As far as the decision to go to bare metal, that was a result of tests done where it was determined that unpainted craft saved weight, production time, and allowed for higher (not much though in actuality) airspeeds. As opposed to camouflags value of the paint. Theater and unit commanders were allowed to apply camouflage paints in theater if desired. Certain AAF types continued to be produced in camouflage paint. And many others were camouflage painted at their user units. All this after the official discontinuation of camo paint for fighters, bombers, and attack types.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    October 2009
  • From: Worcester, England.
Posted by aeroplanegripper on Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:29 PM

Thank you Bish for your kind comments, as soon as the Commonwealth GB is announced you can count me in mate. I promise it wont be a Spit! The Gladiator was started today.

 

Stickpusher,Jack, Kamera, Greg, BD and Nick, thanks for the kind words.

 

Best Regards

Mark

"bis vivit qui bene vivit"

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:33 PM

Will be a pleasure to have you on board and looking forward to seeing the Gladiator.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    March 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Sunday, January 28, 2018 10:26 AM

Finally got some time to sit down and get some real work done on the last major element of my Battle of Britain diorama: the Airfix 1/48 Hurricane Mk. I.  Got a lot done on the cockpit today:

https://pin.it/pxi5vpwb76gnwo

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, January 29, 2018 4:49 PM

Coming on nicely there AA.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Monday, January 29, 2018 8:41 PM

While I wait for glue to dry, thought I'd snap a pic of it drying. Wink

This is the 1/48 Eduard Tiffy's right landing light 'lens' drying, a glob of white glue (actually, Gator's Grip Glue original formula) over a painted circle of silver.

If I guessed right, it will shrink a little drying and end up looking something like a lens. Geeked

Progress, slow but ....slow.

And this is what happens when I try to manual focus in the dark. Huh?CameraOops

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 2:00 AM

That looks good Greg.I used white glue for the clear piece which goes over the light on the wings of a couple of Stukas. It does shrink a bot so needed a second application, but came out ok.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 7:22 AM

AA: Looks good, nice detailing there in the cockpit. I may have to pick up one of those. 

Greg: Looks good there too, white glue makes great lenses. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    March 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 7:46 AM
Thanks, Gamera. Yeah, I would definitely recommend picking one up. Not only is the cockpit detailed, but the machine gun bays in the wings are highly detailed, and you can make them opened or closed. Only drawback is that to make them opened, you have to cut the parts out of the wings, which are molded closed. Not the easiest thing to do, but at least they come with the option for either way, and the detail looks really nice!

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Tuesday, January 30, 2018 1:17 PM

Thanks Bish and Gammy. Nothing everyone hasn't already done, just posting proof of progress. :)

Cockpit looks good, Armor.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, January 31, 2018 12:25 PM

Thanks for the recommendation AA. So far I haven't tried any of the new Airfix kits. This would make a great one for getting my feet wet. I've got about a dozen kits of that unmentionable RAF aircraft but so far not a single Hurricane. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, January 31, 2018 8:28 PM

AA, your Airfix kit and associated conversation reminds me I've yet to try an Airfix kit. You may whet my appetite.

I started my Tiffy for this GB however many months ago with simplicity in mind. No fiddling planned. Misalignments will be as they are. Imperfections after priming, live with them. Most certainly no re-scribing. Not this time.

But there was that ugly seam at the top of the engine cowling staring at me tonight.....

.....and so it goes. Y'all know the drill. Geeked

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, February 1, 2018 3:16 AM

Well, it coming Greg and its looking nice.

I have not built any of the new Airfix kits yet either, but i will be changing that with the Phantom for the Commonwealth GB. But i also plan on running an Airfix GB next year to mark the 80th Anniversary, so none of you will have any excuses after that Wink

 

.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, February 1, 2018 7:48 AM

Greg: That looks good. I've accidently left a few seams on the top of the nose before and then had it glare at me until I finally broke down and puttied and sanded the sucka down... 

Bish: You are tempting me sir... Devil

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, February 1, 2018 8:17 AM

Always happy to help Big Smile

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, February 1, 2018 12:25 PM

Bish and Gammy, thanks for commenting.

An Airfix GB sounds like fun, I'd say I'm tempted too.

I think it is odd that Airfix doesn't have 1/32 aircraft, only a few 1/24 (which I'd love to try)

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, February 1, 2018 12:31 PM

I have some older vintage Airfix kits, just not the new releases. I don't remember exactly which ones but I know I have Monty's staff car in 1/32nd. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, February 1, 2018 12:54 PM

I'm very fond of vintage kits. Of all sorts.

This is way off topic but I just found a Tamiya Team Lotus (the sold-out re-release) in Japan and ordered one. I built one as a kid and couln't resist.

Ok...back to British aircraft now.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, February 1, 2018 1:48 PM

Gamera

I have some older vintage Airfix kits, just not the new releases. I don't remember exactly which ones but I know I have Monty's staff car in 1/32nd. 

 

I am hoping people will build one older kit and one of the new tooled ones, might be nice to see how they have changed. I have a couple of each lined up.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

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