ARMOR - Tamiya 1/35th Tiger 1 MID PRO Group build

I must say that, each of you are doing an awesome job on your group builds. I really enjoy looking at how each of you are approaching your kits differently!

The various building techniques are fun to watch, keep those pics coming!

Deakon, I'm with you on the "paint-it-all-first" technique. I've tried it a bunch of ways, but in my opinion, that's the most efficient way. If you do any amount of weathering at all, the trax and running gear all become one grubby color anyway, so even if you have rubber wheels, just slop some black or dark gray on 'em as best you can, and cover up the slop with your weathering later.
Check out my E-100; that was all painted after the build, even with the skirts on.
Well, I did kinda pre-shade by blasting everything under the skirts with flat black before I glued them on, but all color was applied afterwards.
The E was real easy, since there's no rubber. I even freehanded the track color on with the AB, just trying to avoid getting overspray on the wheels. Washing and weathering tied it all together.

Deakon, your Tiger's looking FANTASTIC!
You know, if it was me, I'd leave it gray...

Wow, good progress from all of the participants here. I've just kind of been hanging out and watching and it's been interesting watching how each of you does it a little different.

All the kits are looking great guys. Keep up the good work. I can't wait to see them finished.

Somehow I don't the progress on our 1/16 Tigers will be as rapid...

Eric

Ya got that right, Eric![:0]

We gotta get crackin'!

Hi, guys. I looked at the picture of that whitewashed tank in the back of the AJ book. It's got the mid/late commanders hatch on it, but has fiefel(?) air cleaners on it. So it must be a very early mid. I may go with it anyway. Time will tell what I will do. I need ot quit my job so I can have time for the fun stuff!! lol At least maybe I'd get caught up on a few of these kits, since I wouldn't be able to buy any more!
Hmmmm, maybe I'd better leave things the way they are and just make the best of the time I have!

Eric, nice job on the web site and on your build. Looks like you've added a whole lot more detail than I knew existed...back to the ref books! lol Thanks for keeping me honest.

Dekon, yours is looking terrific. I wish I had the courage to paint as you and Hulk do. But I do put the cammo on late in the game! Upwards and onwards!

If life's a bowl of cherries, I think I'm drowning in the juice!!

Later,
Bill

I hope we don't lose focus on this build. Remember, this is all about having fun, and learning in the process. I am far from a nut and bolt counter, so please don't kill yourself trying to get each piece of the kit historically accurate. I promised myself before I started this project that although I would use some aftermarket detail, I would not kill myself worrying about scale thinkness, lack of detail, etc. Tamiya's Mid Pro is an excellent kit, and even out of box will be a head turner.


Cheers

Mo/Rob

Deakon,
Wow...looking good man...i still have to other side of the wheels to construct and the tracks...lol.
Bill,
I am also going with a winter wash i am using my Tiger 1 in combat as a reference since there is a drawing of a mid with the newer style copula and no Zimmerit in a Russian theater...so...thats my angle.
Guys you are all doing a great job!
I will get more pics up soon i hope:)

Sounds great, Horus. The drawing I've been looking at sounds similar but it has zimm on it! Large, red numbers painted on the turret. Base color was obviously Dunkelgleb.
I wish I could come up with that digital of my wife's! Have to keep looking!! lol

Oh, and I'm not counting nuts and bolts either, I just think some of the stuff Eric did is cool and worthwhile. If it aint fun, don't do it is my motto! (So how come I keep doing the pe stuff?!!)

Bill

Bill, thanks for the nice words. Yah, there is a lot that can be done to the mid production Tiger based on when it was made. Personally, I think that the Early, and Late versions of the Tamiya Tiger kit are better, but they all build onto good models. Let me know if you have questions about my modifications. I will be more than happy to help out, or lend a hand with the references.

Moses, I finished the Late Tiger about a month ago, out of the box. It was fun and went together fast, but I wanted to do something different this time around. I decided that I would make it ready for RR transport, and the next thing I know, I’ve got what you see on my site. Detail your model, or not, its all about having fun with it!

Horus, did you get those parts today?? The US postal service can take up to 8 working days, right?? I mailed them on Friday the 15th. That’s only 7 working days now. If they don’t show up at your post box tomorrow, I will put the Aber ones in the mail. Just let me know, and send me your mailing address again, so I know I got it right.

Edog,
not today man...but there is always tomm:)
we have good people here so he's my addy:)
Dave Ashe
38 Pennsylvania Ave.
Springfield, MA
01118

Okay! I finally got a hold of the local dealer here. I've set up to go over there (he works out of his house) right after work tonight to pick up the Verlinden detail set and the Eduard barrel. He doesn't have any Lion Roar barrels in but said they aren't quite as nice as the Eduard anyway. He also said he has in some Model Point(?) barrels in that are real nice, but don't come with a muzzel brake that he wants me to look at also. The bad news is that he's in the process of moving to Idaho, so guess he won't be a good supply for me for very much longer. Oh well, life goes on.

I've been checking out the pics of zimm on some of the real deals. My zimm coating isn't quite as chaotic as I thought!! lol I guess there's hope for everything!

Talk to you all later;

Bill

Ok well, it seems like this thread has gone dormant for a good half a day or so. So instead of bumping it, I might as well describe my progress at this time...

Touched of the zim on rear, as well as on turret. Not to pleased with the zim work on the front of the turret, but can't really tell until it is primed. Replaced kit barrel with Jordio Rubio's fine barrel. The fit is perfect, and goes well with Tamiya's kit. All tool clamps, etc have been done. Still have not installed the tow cables, because I am still unsure of how I want to have them displayed. Forget about the side skirts. I am using brass side skirs, and they are not getting put on until just before priming. I am clumsy and those suckers will be off the model more then on if I put them on before I finish building the rest of the model.

Finished one side of the tracks links using Model Kasten Workables. I love these tracks, they are beautifully molded with no flash..and fit the Tamiya kit nicely. They are a bit tedious, but once you get in a groove..they are easy to do.

I plan on going a little different route with the painting. I first plan on priming the tank all in XF-1 Flat Black. This will give a great base for preshading, especially for the zimmerit. I airbrush exclusively with Tamiya Acrylics, varying the mixtures to give some variation to my models. But for this Tiger I, I plan on airbrushing in Vallejo Air Model colors. I have an extensive line of their brush colors, and have recently picked up about 20 colors or so of their Air Model Line. After practicing with some colors with my Badger 150 and Tamiya HG SF, I can honestly say..I LOVE EM. They don't have the bite as Tamiya's Acrylics, but they cover well, and have a nice rich color. Unlike Tamiya's Acrylics, Vallejo Air Acrylics need to be thinned using distilled water. The paint can be airbrushed straight out of the bottle, but it is good to thin it some more, and spray at a high p.s.i. in cloud patterns.

I then plan to basecoat the Tiger I in Vallejo Air's Dark Earth. Yes, Dark Earth..this will give the model a dice grungy undertone. After this I will use 85% Vallejo Dark Yellow/15% Buff very thinned and in cloud patterns for the Dunkegelb. Staying away from the corners and edges, giving the model a little depth and variation. For the camo I will be using Vallejo's Dark Green mixe with some Vallejo Green in a stripped camo. I want the camo to be very subtle and barely visible in some areas. The weathering process will be my normal way, using Winsor Newton Oils for washes, filters, and dry brushing.

Still no pics yet. Should have pics up sometime this week.

Hi, Moses!

Thanks for the detailed update.
I did the same with the XF-1 Flat Black priming on my E-100, but only under the skirts, the running gear, trax, and lower hull. I tink it's a good techinique, too.

Dormant?? Dormant?
Moses, this has gotta be the most active thread in all the forums! It doesn't need to be a sticky: someone posts every 15 minutes or so! It's always at the top!

Which is a cool thing. Keep it up, ya'll!
I love hearing about (and seeing) your progress!

Hey Moses,

I'm using R&J Products "Zimm-it-rite". Does this stuff qualify as a polyester putty? I just wonder if I need to mask off the areas first, or do something different.

Roy

Hey Okieboy...Zim-it-rite will work just fine. It is similar to the Polyester putty, and has a very nice wroking time. I always recommend masking off areas if you can. I know some people remove little detail, then reattach while the zim is still wet, but I rather just zim around it. My advice is mask off areas like the top of the hull or turret and previously zimmed areas. If you get some putty on areas that you didn't want it on..like parts on the rear of the hull, just let the putty dry about 3/4 the way and then remove it. If you try to remove the putty when it is still wet, you may craze the plastic a bit.

Good luck bud, and look forward to seeing some pics.

Cheers

Rob/Mo

Man, I've been trying to post this reply for over an hour. First, the internet connection went down, so I copied it to wordpad so I wouldn't loose it. Then when the i-net came back up, I posted it to the wrong thread! So I went in there and deleted it then finally posted it here. Some days... lol

Moses, sounds great. Where do you get your Vallejo paints? I haven't been able to find a source for them. Interesting choice of colors you've got. I can't wait to see how it turns out. I'm betting on great. (You're not satisfied with your zimmerit??? Oh boy, the rest of us, me in particular, are in REAL trouble!) I'm right there with you on the side skirts. I'm leaving mine off until they HAVE to go on.

Okieboy, after doing the little bit I've done with the Tamiya putty, I'd definately recommend masking off "virgin" areas before putting on the zimm. I didn't on my first try and spent a lot of time afterward cleaning up places where I didn't want it. Some of it got down in the weld line detail on the top of the turret and man, was that a pain. Where are you finding Zimm-it-rite? I understand that stuff is pretty good to use, but understood that it wasn't being made anymore. I don't know how the cost compares to the Tamiya stuff. I've also read that Apoxi-Sculpt is pretty fantastic, and really cheep (something like $22 for 4 POUNDS!) compared to Tamiya.

I went out and looked at the Verlinden detail set (#1177) and I was pretty disappointed with it. Many of the resin parts didn't look too well molded and had quite a bit of flash on them. The instructions are virtually non-existant (guess they figure you'd better have your own references, still it's nice to not have to figure out from scratch what some part is and the general area it goes), and there were some parts that were unidentifiable (a couple of hollow cones that looked almost like jet or rocket exhust nozzles, in specific). On the other hand, some parts (the turret rear stowage containers, for example) are spectacular. Anyway, I decided it was a lot of money for the quality, so have decided to go with some of the Aber sets. I picked up the set for the side skirts and the Eduard barrel last night. I will probably get the Aber fender and detail sets next week. I also looked at the Model Point barrels, and they are nice as far as they go. They do not have any muzzel brakes with them, so I guess you would have to use the kit part. Although, I've seen a picture of a Tiger I or II that didn't have a brake on it. The end of the barrel was ragged like it and the brake had been torn/broken off. Interesting thought...

The Aber side skirt set I bought contains 6 smoke dischargers that mount on the lower hull. 3 each side at the front corner, middle, and rear corner. In my references, it appears these were mounted on the hull of early mid production Tigers. Any thoughts on this from you experts?? Thanks.

Someone tell me what tool you use to do the starburst zimm patteren around the kubelblende and the gun ports on the turret. I'm using the Tamiya zimmerit tool set, and even the small tool is much too big to do them. I'm considering whittling down a piece of resin to use, unless someone has a better idea.


Have a great one.

Bill

Hook it up wipw. You learn as you go with the homemade zim. Liek I said, just make sure you let it dry a bit before removing it. As for the ZIm-it-rite, I think you can order it from www.rjproducts.com .

I get my Vallejo paints throuh my local Armor Hobby store called Baseline models. Don, the owner get the paints through VLS, which is the new North American Dealer. I am basically the only one he orders them for so, I just buy the box of 6 instaed of st cking him with left overs. They go for about $2.49 a bottle for the brush type and $3.09 for the Air I think. Baseline models does mail order and you can contact them at (516) 877-2426.

You can also get Vallejo paints at these online stores

http://www.thewarstore.com/acatalog/vallejo_paints_.html

http://www.rlbps.com/vallejo.htm

http://www.newwave.org/accessories/vallejo/Intro.html

As for my zim...I think it all came out nicely with the exception of teh front of the turret. Again this is me, and I am a neat freak when it comes to the zim.

The sunburst zim around the machine gun is not needed, and it is isn't needed on the side of the hull. So no worries there. If you want to do the sunburst with the Polyester...i recommend using a small srewdriver for it. Just let the putty harden a bit and the use the tool.

Thanks, Moses. Sometimes the most obvious choices (screwdrivers, in this case) are the most clouded for me!! lol

Heading home at lunch to paint the inside of the turret and gun receiver. Maybe I'll get a coat on the wheels, too.

Bill

Bill,

As far as the s-mine dischargers on the hull, I would suggest leaving them off. The Tamiya kit for the Mid Tiger is of a Late/Mid tiger. There is quite a bit that has to be done to the kit to make it an Early/Mid. We are talking about removing some stuff from the engine deck, adding those air filters, adding the extra headlight and putting them back on top of the main hull. You will not be able to use the cable provided for the side of the hull, the small type postol port will need to be added (between the spare tracks and the storage bin), and that’s just off the top of my head. Oh, yah, and the tracks are wrong too, but ultimately its up to you as to how you want to build the beast. Don’t let anything stop you if you think they would look good on your Tiger, weather its historically accurate, or not. Just a note about putting the s-mine dischargers together, those things are pesky little critters to put to make!!!

As for the zim, I just used the smallest end of the Tamiya tool, but at the same time I don’t think my zim looks all that good. What ever Moses says is probably the best way to go, he seems to have the zim down.


Horus,

Sorry those things have not showed up yet, I’ll put the Aber ones in the mail tomorrow.

look what I just found, for all of us anal retentive freaks!!! There is even an early/mid tiger turret with the small pistol port.

http://www.tigermodels.com/bulletin_board.htm

***Moses Cheers for edog***

Nice find edog. To be totally honest, I pride myself on my painting and weathering..but my building sucks. I have tons of reference books, etc...but my knowledge of what makes a kit historically accurate is very poor. Don't get me wrong, when it is time to make a kit..I do lots of research, but ask me to describe the difference between a Panzer IV G and a Panzer IV H off the top of my head..and I will be looking at you like a deer in headlights.

The only thing I am good for is zim advice. Because after years of trying to do it, I just stumbled on an easy way. Sort of like Newton and the gravity theory. It just hit me

Wipw,

Moses is correct about the website, however, they haven't configured it to sell off the web yet, so you have to either call them or e-mail them and place your order. As for myself, I'm not that patient, so I called them in (Washington State) and placed the order over the phone. They are a "Mom and Pop" enterprise. For $10 they send you two plastic containers (about the size of 35mm film containers). One is the resin, the other is the hardener. They tell you that this amount is enough to do three 1/35 scale tanks. I haven't tried mine out yet, but it is water soluble and takes 2-3 hours to set up, so you're not rushing and having to cover small areas before it dries on you. The other good thing about it is that it will not "craze" the plastic like putty will. After it's dried, it behaves like the real deal and you can chip it to show damage and wear. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Roy

Thanks, Roy.

I'll be very interested to hear how it works out. That's the only downfall I've found with the Tamiya putty. That it dries a little too quickly for me. I don't know how two containers that small can possible do 3 tanks, but we'll see. Did the $10 cover shipping, too? How long did it take for it to show up after you ordered it? I'd like to try ApoxiSculpt sometime, too. Get a feeling for how they all work and differ. Then stick with the one I find best.

I've been looking at the zimm I've done so far and some of it looks pretty good. On the other hand, some of it looks pretty rough. I haven't tried going over it with a brush, yet, to even it out a little. Maybe that will help. Otherwise, I'll have to do some surgery on part of it. I should get time to work on the tank for a while tonight. It'll be the first time all week. How long depends on how long it takes to feed my fearsome foursome!! lol

Thanks, Erick, for the all the info. It really helps. I'm not a rivet counter, but I don't want any glaring errors, either. I like to make my models as accurate as possible without going too overboard. That's one of the things I've liked most about this Tiger, it's really a cool model without doing anything extra to it. So I can pick and choose a "few" highlights to tighten up. And it looks to me like those smoke dischargers could be an absolute nightmare to construct. That's one of the hardest things (and there have been many) for me to do on pe is a nice, smooth curve. Let alone a full tube! I did come up with a way to get my working hinges set up on my Elefant mud guards though. I bend the "blades" of the two bladed side of the hinge around a brass wire, then glue it to the fender. When it's totally cured, I put the wire back in the hinge and push the single blade from the other side of the into place, under the wire. Then I bend the single blade up over the wire, which completes the hinge. Last step is to glue the single blade side, still attached to the other side, to the mud guard. It's a little fiddley, but everything lines up much better than any other way I can think of to do it. If anyone else has a better way, please let me know!! I'm still trying to figure out how to decently do the creasants that go under the fenders on the Elefant and exactly how all that fits together!

Thanks, again, Roy, Mo, and Erick for all the info.

btw...has anybody out there gotten or seen up close and personal the Aber "super set" for the 1/35th. It's supposed to be similar (but not as extensive, of course) as the 1/16 set. Has the wood block, cables, pe set, etc. I see it adverted for about $50, but not in stock. Very tempting to my lust for parts!! lol

Bill

Bill,

I just checked out your website. That's some quality work you have there my friend. Very impressive. [:0] I have a question for you regarding your zimmerit on your Tiger... 1. How did you get it on the surface so thin? 2. What did you use to give it its grooved texture? From what I've seen, I like what you've done. I was just wondering how much of the grooved texture showed.
As for R&J's "Zimm-it-rite", the total cost was $13.85; including shipping, and it took about five days to go from Washington State to Maryland.

Roy

Roy, Thanks, but it's not my work you're looking at. I haven't posted any pictures yet. I can't find my wife's digital camera. I've been given an offer to take my stuff to one of the local dealer's and he'll take and post the pics for me. But it's probably Erick's (edog) that you're looking at. I hope when mine get posted, it'll be worthy of some positive comment.
As for your questions, the Tamiya putty most of us have been using is fairly easy to get on pretty thin. Then the tool we're using (the Tamiya zimmerit tool set, scrapes it right down to the plastic when used. Leaving a very thin layer. Of course, it depends on how firmly you press down on the tool. They look a lot like a razor saw blade with little teeth. I didn't get Tamiya's handle when I bought mine, and I wish I had. I thought I would use it without a handle (and for somethings, I prefer to do it that way), or could use my middle size
x-acto handle. That will work, but it doesn't hold the blade as firmly as I'd like. I'm not sure what experience others have with the handle. Moses is the defacto expert on zimmerit. His work is absolutely gorgeous!
The zimmerit tools give it the grooved texture. The set comes with 6 blades, 3 different lengths each of .5 and .7 mm spacing of the teeth. I have been using the .7 mm tools for the Tiger. I'm not sure which models would use the .5. I assume smaller tanks, but not sure. If you're interested, you can go to e-bay and get to the armor models section and do a search on zimmerit. I've seen a different set of tools adverted there that the seller claims are better than the Tamiya set. There are more blades in a set, I think they tell you which vehicles used which size, and there are two sets available. So it is definately more extensive. I've also seen waffle pattern zimmerit stamps available there.

Good luck with your modeling.

Thanks, once more, for the stuff about the Zimm-it-rite. I may give them a call later today!

Bill

Ahhh shucks wipw, I appreciate the kind words about the zimmerit techniques that I use. And you have given Okieboy some great advice. You are learning my young padawan. I will add just a bit.

The tools that come with Tamiya's Zimmerit Applicator set consists of 6 tools. 3 Being at 0.7 mm in zim seperation and the the other 3 at 0.5 mm in zim seperation. The 0.7 tools are used for Tiger 1's, Tiger II's, Brummbar's, and some Panzer IV's. While the 0.5 tools are for Panthers, but you can still use the 0.7 tool for them.

The Tamiya Zimmerit Applicator was pretty much designed for thin putty and not epoxy. Using epoxy is a chore to say the least. The hardest part is trying to get it thinned down, and I hate scribing the surface of the model for adhesion. Zimm-it-rite is a great product and I have used it before, but in my experience, the Polyester Putty from Tamiya is better, cheaper, and you can probably zim about 3-4 King Tigers with one tube. Only downfall is that it stinks to high heaven, and I was forced to do it outside in my garage this time around. My wife is pregnant with our first baby, and she just hates the smell of it. The Polyester Putty has a very slow drying time ( I would say a good 10-15 minutes) which is more then enough time to zim a section of the model. Remember, you only want to zim a couple of areas at a time, or you risk mishandeling the kit and messing up a previously zimmed area. As an example...for the Tiger , I zimmed the right side of the hull, front side of the hull. During the same modelling session, I zimmed the right and left sides of the turret (which was not glued together). On the second night I zemmied the left and rear parts of the hull, the part of the hull with the machine gun and drivers vision port and the turret mantlet.

It is my suggestion that you zim the kit wit all parts unassembled. I zim first and assemble later, and then touch up where needed. The Polyester Putty is very forgiving, and if you made a mistake or you do not like how it came out, you can scrap it off either while still wet or dry..and start over again until you like the results. Believe me, I did this like 4 times on the Turret manlet until I was satisfied (which I am still not ).

Again, just practice and exeriment on what you like best. Not everyone can zim like Tony Greenland.

Hmmm, I wonder if I'm doing something wrong with the proportions of my mix. My putty starts firming up very fast and is almost totally unworkable within about 7-10 minutes. After my first experimental go at it (one side of a King turret), I went lighter on the cataylist. It usually comes out a light "mint" green now. It's working better, but I still usually get some "gurngies". I can't seem to get it on real thin and even, so I probably have been getting it a little thicker than I should. Then I use the tool to "scrape it down". Smaller areas, I found it actually easier to put some on the side of the tool apply with the tool. Probably closer to the way it was done in the factories.

It still don't hold a candle to your's, Obi-Wan!!

Bill

Hey Bill. The ratio of Ployester Putty to catalyst is 50:1. To make it easier, put a thing off putty on a plate (about the size of a half of ice cream scoop. Then put the catalyst in( one strip about the length of 3 pinky nails) That should be more then enough. Remember the catalyst acts just like an epoxy hardener..the more you put in, the faster it will cure. I usually finish with the Putty before I finish with the hardener.

When scraping with th etool, make sure you are touching the surface of the kit. This will ensure you are getting nice thin coverage.

Mr. Mo;

Half an icecream scoop?? wow, that sounds like way more than I mix up at one time. I've been putting down a line about 2 inches long and adding hardener on top of it to a length of about 2/3 of it. The directions say to make them about the same length, but when I did that the first time, it really hardened up fast! Needless to say, I don't want to use so little that it doesn't cure.
I do scrape the tool on the surface of the model, then wipe the excess off on a paper towel periodically. Do you hold the tool perpendicular to the surface, or do you angle it to the front a bit? I've tried both ways and am not sure it makes too much difference, but that's probably due to my inexperience. I do try to get the tool straight up and down the surface, but have had a lot of trouble with consistency doing that. So some of my sections are narrower at the top than the bottom, or vice versa. Practice, practice, practice. Wish there was an experience pill I could take for whatever I'm trying to do at the moment! But then where's the fun!! (Except for pe! I'd but a bottle of those experience pills!)

Have a good one,

Bill

Ok Bill, the instructions do show that you make even lengths with the putty and hardener. But I have found that by adding less hardener will increase in working time. I totally am a firm believer in mixing to much, then haveing to mix more in the middle of a session. The putty will still harden rock hard with less catalyst then in the instructions..it is all relative. Experiment on what the best consistency works for you.

I hold the tool on a slight angle..working left to right (I am a righty). I spread the putty across a section and move the tool along..only to stop to clean off the tool..making sure no putty is stuck in the grooves. I use a stiff sable brush to remove any putty if I can't with my rag. As an example..it should take a minute and a half to zim one side of a Tiger I hull. Start the first section, using it as the vertical guide...and from there all your sections should be perfectly vertical and even. But always remember..zimmerit was far from a neat job, and sometimes it was sloppy in some spots.