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Panzer I's and II's

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  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Nashotah, WI
Panzer I's and II's
Posted by Glamdring on Sunday, February 1, 2009 8:48 PM

One question has piqued my interest while model browsing, once the Panzer I and II were consistenly outclassed on the battle field, what did the Germans do with them?  Did they scrap them and melt them down to make more the later war tanks?  Mothball them for use in the final defense?  Issue them to the home units for security?

I thought a Panzer II with its popgun and ambush camo might make an interesting dio set in the streets of Berlin during the last battle.

Robert 

"I can't get ahead no matter how hard I try, I'm gettin' really good at barely gettin' by"

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Kristiansund, Norway
Posted by Huxy on Sunday, February 1, 2009 9:06 PM

I don't know all the details and such, but some was still in service till very late, as they could not get replacements of the good tanks until a little late..     I am not so sure about that very fact, don't take it serious...

 

Many were also converted into "Munitionschlepper" and such.. 

 

Here's one use:

 

Another one:

 

The Munitionschlepper:

 

The famous Marder II:

 

 

That's just some of them!! Smile [:)] 

"Every War Starts And Ends With An Invasion".

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Sunday, February 1, 2009 9:06 PM

There was actually a PzII chassis with a big StuG gun welded onto it seen in the final days of the war. The superstructure had been removed, and the gun just sort of plopped on it, trunion and all.

Not sure that a whole lot of them survived that long though? I have seen some used as artillery spotters and recon-type machines.

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Kristiansund, Norway
Posted by Huxy on Sunday, February 1, 2009 9:10 PM

Show me a picture of that, DooG! That sounds awsome!! And quoting you again, "HEY, STOOG!"  LOL!!

 

And think of those lonely Germans down at the border south in Germany north of italy.. No action.. They probably had a Panzer I or II?  Also, there were ALOT of them here in Norway.. no action troughout the war.. execpt some Norwegian peasents knocking them flat with the wooden spoons Big Smile [:D]  And the early days of the invasion, too...

 

And artillery and recon machines, true.. Some probably was used as befhelswagen (Command vehicle) trough out the war aswell? 

"Every War Starts And Ends With An Invasion".

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Sunday, February 1, 2009 9:31 PM
The chassis on the Pz II were usually converted over to Marder or Wespe duty once they were pulled from frontline service. The leftover Pz II turrets were incorporated into fixed defenses like the Atlantic Wall and the chassis rebuilt. The Pz Is were often relegated to the driving schools and sort of disappeared as a result because the chassis was too light for any real conversion use...not that it wasn't tried with things like the Pzjager, Bison, etc. Some survived in the police units or doing anti-partisan duty but not many.  
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Nashotah, WI
Posted by Glamdring on Sunday, February 1, 2009 9:45 PM

According to Wikipedia, all Pz.IIs were phased out by 1943 and converted into Marder IIs.  I would believe they were replaced in frontline units, but I don't buy that all were converted into Marders.  I too would like to see that picture Doog, that sounds like a true late war vehicle! Big Smile [:D]

Huxy, I believe the Panzer II Ausf A by Tristar depicts a pre-war training vehicle, or a "farming tractor" as the Germans called them to get around the limits on tanks from the Treaty of Versailles.

Robert 

"I can't get ahead no matter how hard I try, I'm gettin' really good at barely gettin' by"

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Sunday, February 1, 2009 9:59 PM
Not to call out Doog, but I wonder what he's referrring too also.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Kristiansund, Norway
Posted by Huxy on Sunday, February 1, 2009 9:59 PM
 Glamdring wrote:

According to Wikipedia, all Pz.IIs were phased out by 1943 and converted into Marder IIs.  I would believe they were replaced in frontline units, but I don't buy that all were converted into Marders.  I too would like to see that picture Doog, that sounds like a true late war vehicle! Big Smile [:D]

Huxy, I believe the Panzer II Ausf A by Tristar depicts a pre-war training vehicle, or a "farming tractor" as the Germans called them to get around the limits on tanks from the Treaty of Versailles.

 

The panzer I there, yeah.. You may be right! Didn't think of that Smile [:)]

 

I don't either buy that all were converted into Marders...   And hey, here in Norway, Panzer I and Panzer II's were in service troughout the war in the division Z.B.V 40, which was the only Panzer division here..

Norway is not the country with the most tank-friendly landscape... So the heaviest tank (Except the prototype Neubaufahrzeug VI) was the Panzer IV. And in limited numbers.. Wink [;)]

"Every War Starts And Ends With An Invasion".

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Nashotah, WI
Posted by Glamdring on Sunday, February 1, 2009 10:08 PM
 Huxy wrote:
 Glamdring wrote:

According to Wikipedia, all Pz.IIs were phased out by 1943 and converted into Marder IIs.  I would believe they were replaced in frontline units, but I don't buy that all were converted into Marders.  I too would like to see that picture Doog, that sounds like a true late war vehicle! Big Smile [:D]

Huxy, I believe the Panzer II Ausf A by Tristar depicts a pre-war training vehicle, or a "farming tractor" as the Germans called them to get around the limits on tanks from the Treaty of Versailles.

 

The panzer I there, yeah.. You may be right! Didn't think of that Smile [:)]

 

I don't either buy that all were converted into Marders...   And hey, here in Norway, Panzer I and Panzer II's were in service troughout the war in the division Z.B.V 40, which was the only Panzer division here..

Norway is not the country with the most tank-friendly landscape... So the heaviest tank (Except the prototype Neubaufahrzeug VI) was the Panzer IV. And in limited numbers.. Wink [;)]

That kind of supports my theory that rear line units that dealt with partisans and the such may have retained their Pz.IIs at least through the war.  Of course I know very little about the war in Norway, so my statement may not be applicable to that.  I'd love to see some pics of the division Z.B.V 40, I'll have to do some research on their vehicles...

Robert 

"I can't get ahead no matter how hard I try, I'm gettin' really good at barely gettin' by"

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Sunday, February 1, 2009 10:12 PM
I'll try to find a pic of that--may take a while though; I'm not even sure I have a digital pic of it?
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Kristiansund, Norway
Posted by Huxy on Sunday, February 1, 2009 10:21 PM

Doog, just find a picture of that bizarre vehicle Cool [8D]

 

Glamdring, Here's a couple of links..

Basic history:

http://www.history.jp/wehrmacht/027.htm

 

Here you got 13 pages of pictures taken in Norway. Many by the Z.B.V 40, some by the infantry:

http://d2134644.u48.surftown.nu/coppermine/thumbnails.php?album=147 

 

 Also, Hitler pointed out Norway to be the destiny-area.. The place where the Allied invasion of Europe would take place. That should mean that Norway should get more armor, but it's just that Norway is not a tank friendly country, as said.. Mountains, fjords, narrow roads and few roads just sums it all up! Smile [:)]

"Every War Starts And Ends With An Invasion".

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, February 1, 2009 10:50 PM
An educated guestimate says most of the Mk II chasis would go to Marders and Wespes. Some probalby went to other oddball conversions that teh Germans were seemed to make by the half dozen or so. Most pics I have seen of Anti Partisan tanks shows captured French or Czech tanks in use for that role. Not good enough for front line combat, but good enough to deal with those who have little AT capability.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Saskatchewan
Posted by PanzerRich on Sunday, February 1, 2009 11:00 PM

I like how the turret and superstructure have been removed on these PzIb's in the top pic.  Sure provided the trainee driver with a better view of the world.

 

I never met a tank I didn't like.
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Kristiansund, Norway
Posted by Huxy on Sunday, February 1, 2009 11:11 PM

hey.. Wow.. wow... isn't that biggest tank in the construction hall a Neubaufahrzeug VI???  Wow!! I tought I'd NEVER run into a picture of it while being constructed!! Shock [:O]  Thanks!

May I ask what book that is? 

"Every War Starts And Ends With An Invasion".

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Saskatchewan
Posted by PanzerRich on Sunday, February 1, 2009 11:20 PM
 Huxy wrote:

hey.. Wow.. wow... isn't that biggest tank in the construction hall a Neubaufahrzeug VI???  Wow!! I tought I'd NEVER run into a picture of it while being constructed!! Shock [:O]  Thanks!

May I ask what book that is? 

I believe that's the one.  Seems pics of these beasts are pretty rare,  like you alude to! The pic is from 'Panzer Division',  in Ballantine's WWII series.  In a related story,  I saw a 1:35 resin kit on the Nbfz VI a couple of weeks ago on E-bay.  IIRC,  the starting bid was in the neighborhood of $200 USD!  I like the tank,  but not that much. lol

I never met a tank I didn't like.
  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Kristiansund, Norway
Posted by Huxy on Sunday, February 1, 2009 11:41 PM

Pictures of the 4 tanks ever produced aren't oftenly found, no...

 

Ya, there is a resin kit around.. actually two. One 1/72 and one 1/35. The 1/35 one is like 100$.. I really want one. 3 NbFz served in Norway, the last one was in Germany. 

Can't remember the manufacturer nor the online store, but you find it all at the "Norway WWII GB Idea" on the second or so page of General Modeling section Wink [;)] 

"Every War Starts And Ends With An Invasion".

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