FINISHED PICS! -- Pg 6 DML ersatz M10 Panther OOB WIP

Orion, Will, and doc, thanks so much for the comments!

This took a second place at SYRCON today! 

Spectacular work as always doog!

AMAZING build Karl!!! the weatering is to good!

Thanks, terry--I'm going to try to put this in the "OOB" category at SYRCON tomorrow--I took out the wiring in the light for that reason.

I'm thinking that SMJ's gonna kick my butt all over Syracuse though... lol!

Karl, wow, seriously wow, theres a gold medal there for you regardless of where its entered. The idea of a dio. with G.I's is great. Maybe even trying to recreate one of the wartime photos would be cool.

Again just great.

Terry.

Mansteins revenge wrote:

Very nice finish, doog...some very cool and intense color variations going on here with the green...Me likes......perfect dio piece...

I appreciate the kudo's! If I ever do put it in a dio, you'lll have to refer me to some appropriate US G.I. figures to go in it!  (maybe you can paint them for me too? lol!)

Jester75 wrote:

Hey Karl,although the subject matter doesn't really interest me, your skills never cease to amaze. That is some of the finest weathering I have seen. Great work! Now, when are you going to do a wingy thingy????? ( I remember that last one met a horrible fate)

I intend to get to that eventually...

Thanks for your comment, friend! 

Hey Karl,although the subject matter doesn't really interest me, your skills never cease to amaze. That is some of the finest weathering I have seen. Great work! Now, when are you going to do a wingy thingy????? ( I remember that last one met a horrible fate)

scratchmod wrote:

Well Karl I give this one a perfect 10 and a gold of course. Now I have to start popping in on the Auto forum to keep up with your builds, a pleasure of course. As for the wreck build goes, I remember you commenting on one of my first posts here and showing pics of your wreck. It was really cool and very well done. I would love to see you do another especially with your weathering technique. I'm all for a wreck GB whenever you are, that would be awesome. I will be checking into the oils and pigments after seeing this fake M10 of yours.    Rob

That's anice comliment from a guy as talented as you.

I'm leaning toward doing another car--a modified dirt track car, and then maybe a Model T or A believe it or not! I think I"m going to do the oldie as an old, dusty farm car--kinda like a medium-weathering thing with much dust and fading. I'm contemplating the technique to use as we speak! 

Not sure what armor I"m going to do next--might be something completely off-the-wall and unexpected? I had a good time changing up my routine here, with the OD finish. Maybe I'll go for a modern tank? 

I have to imagine that you would kick my butt in a head-to-head "Rust-off", lol! You are the man when it comes to wrecks!

Doog......WOW! that is beautiful.

Bob

Well Karl I give this one a perfect 10 and a gold of course. Now I have to start popping in on the Auto forum to keep up with your builds, a pleasure of course.

As for the wreck build goes, I remember you commenting on one of my first posts here and showing pics of your wreck. It was really cool and very well done. I would love to see you do another especially with your weathering technique. I'm all for a wreck GB whenever you are, that would be awesome.

I will be checking into the oils and pigments after seeing this fake M10 of yours. 

Rob

Thanks, dupes! I appreciate the 's! I worked hard on this sucka!

T-rex, the armor was added for disguising the tank; to alter its lines to look like an American M10, to try to sneak it behind American lines in the Battle of the Bulge. It really wasn't an attemp to "up-armor" the vehicle. Thanks for looking in, and for your compliments! 

Wow well done doog, another great build, and a unique one too, I haven't heard of this tank untiul I saw its review in FSM.

I can see that its a captured german panther, but why did they added extra armor?

Like it? How could I NOT like it?

Sweet stuff here Karl. Those mud-caked tracks look great, and the overall effect on the glacis (especially) of the multitudes of weathering techniquies is spot on.

Bill, Nate, Tony, and Mike--thanks, guys; I do apreciate the comments!

Bill--"It doesn't just look like an ersatz that sat on its haunches until spring, somhow, it FEELS like it's been out in the elements."--Ahhh, now THAT's the kind of thing I was going for! Thanks for the great way of putting that!

Rick--"This one ROCKS!  Nice work overall, and probably your best weathering to date..." WOW, that's a great vote of confidence for me, hearing you say that! Thanks, man--I'll never stop pushing the MIG stiff which I think is so integral to the methods that I've adopted now! Thanks for that nice compliment!

David--"Master Jedi Modelling skills in full effect."--lol! Thanks, man! 

Stephen-- "Does this mean we might start to see some American armor in your inventory now?"--uhhhh.....mmmmm........maybe?!   lol! Seriously, though--you may..maybe I'll surprise everyone sometime soon?! Thanks for your comment! 

Marc, Andy, and Mark--thanks a lot guys, I do appreciate your compliments! 

Hmmm...what's next now? ..........

Evening

Awesome work as usual, you are the master

Mark

Nailed it square on the head doog.  Nice.

What else can one say but WOW!!!! That is one great model Doog! Does this mean we might start to see some American armor in your inventory now?

-Stephen

This one ROCKS!  Nice work overall, and probably your best weathering to date - complex and in context....super nice.

Rick

VERY nice Karl!

Nate

S

T

U

N

N

I

N

G

Really, man, I am running shy of superlatives for you.  The color modulaton, the layer upon layer of weathering.

It doesn't just look like an ersatz that sat on its haunches until spring, somhow, it FEELS like it's been out in the elements.

Bill 

redleg12 wrote:

For Best Picture also best Documentry.....could be nominated for another depending on the base!! Rounds Complete!!

lol--thanks, Mike!

Hello from Jenn's house!

Thanks, Wayne! There's not much info on these guys--really don't know much about them. I don;t think they were necessarily "old" vehicles--I just think that the weather got 'em filthy. There seems to be some myth about tanks having to be "in service a long time" in order for them to be dirty and filthy. Based upon my experience with racing my dirt bike, I can tell you that I can be clean one minute, filthy the next! Get in the mud, and you're done!

Daniel and Steve R--thanks, guys; I appreciate it! 

INDY--THANKS, MAN! lol! (I shot that one just for you! )

Eric--like I said, no--I specifically tried to replicate the tank's weathered appearance in the photos such as this one:

--pretty filthy, huh? I think that there would inevitably have been a fair amount of rust on it, too, as it was sitting in the wet and snow for a few days. Dunno what happened to them though--wouldn't it have been great if one had been preserved?!

Thanks again, y'all!

Really like the color modulation. Really mixes up a rather boring color. I'm assuming you were just having fun with the weathering since as AgentG mentioned, a very short life span.

Does anyone know what happened to the captured ones? Were they used against the Germans?

the doog wrote:

INDY wrote: ~The Doog ! ~ Pull'in off a top notch  SBS thread of such a top-flight build ! Rock on with this Bro. Beautiful results while raising eyebrows at the start with that uber-drastic contrast painting ~ but you have shown how it comes together-BIG TIME. I really liked the SBS at this point What a difference that step made & perfectly illustrated. This may promt some members to step up thier game when it comes to posts. Really well-prepared posts like this are even better than a pro article, 'cause we get to chime in + watch it all go down. ~Indy OOPS, INDY--Sorrry, I meant to acknowledge your post; THANKS, buddy! Glad you are liking the "radical approach"! I appreciate the vote of confidence!

~ KILLER THREAD of a KILLER BUILD of a KILLER MODEL ! ~

Like I said, maybe this sort of post will inspire some members to step up thier game when it comes to posts, and produce some great work as well.   Hope so

~I really dig this 'street level' shot

Sums it up                                     ~ Indy

Doog (Karl)-

                   same old boring Olive Drab.....NOT! You sure brought that to life!  The paint is brilliant!

Steve

For Best Picture also best Documentry.....could be nominated for another depending on the base!!

Rounds Complete!!

Thanks a lot, guys! I'm glad that I didn't disappoint!

Glad you like it Edmund! Put some of the mud into your Sherman build!

Scott, that effect was done with a really thin brush, using tan acrylic craft store paint, thinned slightly with water so that it transfered easily off the brush. A light touch on the brush, and a bit of practice is the way to get good results. Then, the pencil marks are just that--a #2 pencil. Thanks for the comment! 

Thanks, too, Tony--I dunno; Rob's got me skeered to go up against his rusting skill, lol! Maybe someday we'll do a "Wrecked! GB"? lol! 

Thanks too, Anthony!! 

And thank you, too, Steve! Is it close to a "disaster"? lol! I appreciate your compliment!

panzerguy Steve--thanks too, bud! I would love to eventually put this into a dio scene, but right now I'm running really low on display space--gotta get me a new bookcase for a new dio. I do have an American GI that I'm painting up to put next to this build, but I hadn't finished it yet this afternoon, and I'm going over Jenn's tonight and staying there til tomorrow afternoon, and wanted to get the photos up before I leave in about an hour here. I'm going to bark at HER moon, lol! (and it's a nice moon, lol! ...)

David, thanks too!--I'm glad to share everything that I've learned here with all of you! 

Doog,

You're worried about doing mediocre builds? Doog build does not equal mediocre.

Wow, this one is amazing.  Thinking about trying some of your techniques that you presented in this build/tutorial.  Thank you so much for posting your amazing efforts

Cheers

Dave

   Okay now that definitely looks like something that's been sitting in a cold wet Belgium field for a couple of weeks!

   So what's the plan for the base Karl? Maybe a lone GI checking it out and scratching his head? 

 That's some REALLY fine stuff there doog. Love it!

I think 'ya nailed it just perfect!

Lean and mean lookin' doog.

Now celebrate; you can go bark at the moon tonight.

Karl that looks just like the one that had its barrel stuck through the side of that cafe or what ever kind of building it was.

I think Rob is right in saying you're ready to tackle a wreck my friend.

You did a great job ole buddy                                                                                                    Tony the Mutt

Very nice.  In picture #12, the first of the flash photos, there are some what appear to be pencil marks and white(ish) scratch marks.  You say those were hand painted?  How did you do that effect?

I really have to get some of this Mig stuff.  Back in my day rust was baking soda and mud was, well, mud.

Well done Karl!

The layers upon layers of weathering really show here providing depth and contrast.

Hi Guys!

Well, I think I'd better stop tinkering with this one now... Here's the finished (I think?...) pics!

Weathering was completed with MIG pigments, and "splattering" using the airbrush and paintbrush as I did on my Nashorn. Scratches were done in various shades, and chip hand-painted in. The tracks got a second layer of lighter MIG mud, and also, MIG "Wet Weather Effects" was lain in some of the track areas, on the darker "mud" to make it look "still wet". 

Nuff' talkin'--enjoy!

And here's some flash photos--a little more definition to the color...the rust is a bit bright though in these shots....

Well, I hope y'all like my take on an "OD" panzer! Comments and questions always welcomed!

INDY wrote:

~The Doog ! ~ Pull'in off a top notch  SBS thread of such a top-flight build ! Rock on with this Bro. Beautiful results while raising eyebrows at the start with that uber-drastic contrast painting ~ but you have shown how it comes together-BIG TIME. I really liked the SBS at this point What a difference that step made & perfectly illustrated. This may promt some members to step up thier game when it comes to posts. Really well-prepared posts like this are even better than a pro article, 'cause we get to chime in + watch it all go down. ~Indy

Glad you are liking the "radical approach"! I appreciate the vote of confidence!

scratchmod wrote:

I don't htink you know how to build mediocre Karl , especially after seeing this model and you bike in the bed of your truck. What I want to see is another wreck. I know your dying to do one right.   Rob

Thanks, bud......there are so many things and kits that I want to build! I have a wild hair to do another car, to be honest--I think I'm going to do a Modified race car after this. The ones that race at short dirt tracks, you know? I want to do one with dirt and dings, etc--my Dad used to take me to watch them when I was young, and they've finally come out with a few good looking ones. They're really easy to build, and I just want one on my shelf!

I don't htink you know how to build mediocre Karl , especially after seeing this model and you bike in the bed of your truck. What I want to see is another wreck. I know your dying to do one right.

Rob

lol, you guys are too kind!

Careful now, or I"ll get "comfortable" and start producing mediocre builds, lol!

Yep he sure does make it look easy, my jaw dropped when I saw those last update pics. He sure can weather a tank and pick up.

Rob

I am going to cry in a beer later.

Cheers

Dave

Dave I was just sitting here more or less thinking the same thing.                                                  We work our butts off trying to achieve that look and Doog comes along and just "Slops It On" makes me want to cry.

 Later                                                                                                                                       Tony the Mutt

When I grow up I want to be able to pull off something such as this.

Awwww !  Somebody raised the bar again!  Doog, this is absolutely fantastic!.

Cheers

Dave

Thanks so much, Jim and terry! Such nice comliments....

Yeah, I figure that it would be a bit of a challenge to depict it as rather derelict, with the rusted tracks and all...I just got the tracks on, and am doing some more tweaking, and I should have some more photos tomorrow?

Stay tuned to this station! Thanks again, guys! 

Hi, Karl great work going on. While reading through the build I must say that I'm delighted that you are fixwd on the abandoned hulk. When I seen the start of the weathering over the pre-shading I got concerned with what I was seeing, but the way that you brought everything together is just wonderful and all this work will really lend to the overall effect that you are trying for.

Just a word about the tracks......Brilliant.

Terry.

~The Doog ! ~ Pull'in off a top notch  SBS thread of such a top-flight build ! Rock on with this Bro. Beautiful results while raising eyebrows at the start with that uber-drastic contrast painting ~ but you have shown how it comes together-BIG TIME. I really liked the SBS at this point

What a difference that step made & perfectly illustrated. This may promt some members to step up thier game when it comes to posts. Really well-prepared posts like this are even better than a pro article, 'cause we get to chime in + watch it all go down.

~Indy

Haha! Yeah! And with the two drivers shaking hands! Imagine that happening! Us armor modellers could've seen the difference instantly.

How about that Doog?

Thanks so much, Boba Fett, dupes, Mike, Marc, Rob, Bill, and David!

Thanks for your comments and for sticking with this WIP!

Rob, I think you'll really love the MIG stuff--it's definitely been a big boon to my finishing techniques! 

David--yup, I brap through the mud one day, and then plow through it in a panzer the next, lol. MUD IS GOOD!!!

I think I'm in love, WOW that weathering is tantastic. Karl, your the man. I think I'll  break down and buy me some of that weathering stuff. Top notch stuff my friend.

Rob

Very VERY nice moves, Karl.

FEELS like it's been sitting around through a winter and spring.

Looks amazing.

Bill 

Only 3 words for that.

WOW

WOW

and WOW

So far...fantastic.....looking to do the same with my M40 only not as...Dirty...but similar modulation...good to look at yours

Tracks are interesting as you "packed" them with mud and I have to "pack" mine with snow....coming sooooon

As always...nice work...and as always...nice fingers

Rounds Complete!!

Here we go with another update--

First, I used some MIG 502 oils--mostly #125 "Light Mud" with a smidge of White and Wash Brown to streak and dirty up the hull. The spare tracks were also finsihed a little more with rust shades.

Then I painted up the tracks and washed them with some acrylic rust craft store paint.

Then, using a combination of 4 different MIG pigments and real dirt, I mixed up some dirt with some MIG acrylic resin, and slopped it on.

And then, when dry, I added some MIG Dry Mud pigment to the tops. You mght notice that the tracks are definitely of a more rusty color than I'm usually comfortable with; I wrestled with this decision a long time, but in the end I decided that, as I'm modeling this particular vehicle as an abandoned hulk, it would show fresh, bright rust and therefore, the color on the track teeth--which would have been polished bright steel, and therefore, would have rusted sooner.

The bottom of the tank was mucked up with various MIG 503 oil shades.

And then promptly slathered over with the MIG mixed mud--first the darker color, then the Dry Mud..I kinda regretted covering up all the nice shading...

And then the dry pigments were fixed in place with MIG Pigment Fixer. Just drop it on.

The wheels got the treatment too--oil washes and oil dabs, then drybrushed a bit with Polly S Midstone. The rims were painted Tamiya Metallic Grey, and then MIG Light Rust pigment was mixed with thinner, brushed on the rims and brushed off when dry. These rims are normally bright silver due to wear, but again, I figured that they would rust up quickly in the wet climate of the Bulge. Again, it looks a bit weird, but I'm standing by it! Oil leaks were added using MIG "Oil and Grease Stain Mixture" which dries a nice semi-gloss, like it's wet. The rubber parts are NOT painted yet here...

Detail...

A drybrushing of craft store tan, and some more refining of the streaks and filters and here's where I am. You know, the more I use this MIG stuff, the more I'm sold on it. You can lay down a filter, let it dry for two or three days, and then if you don't like it, come back, wet your brsuh with some MIG thiner, and manipulate it either subtley or completely--cool beans!

The turret shields are still loose, btw...

Next step--pin washes and subtle details. I think I'm pretty happy with the finish so far. A few more pigments and some picked-out details; get the rubber parts of the wheels painted and the tracks on and then some airbrush-generated splatter. I'm getting excited just thinking about it! lol!...

Whatcha think?

ogrejohn wrote:

Very nice work doog! Some of the photos show up more towards a green color other photos kinda show it as a more yellowish shade. What is it, some kind of color shifting paint like the car builders use? Then again it might just be my crappy monitor. In any case I think it looks great!

NO, that's just the lighting that I used to photograph it--sometimes I use the flash to show a little more of the grime, other times not. The "yellowy" ones are without flash. I'm going to do an update tomorrow, and I'll try to use natural light!

spacepacker wrote:

WOW,,,WOW,,,WOW, I'm so gobsmacked I cant think of any thing else to say...Kenny

And thanks too, Satch and Dave! I appreciate your nice comments!

Al, sorry to see that times are demanding a hiatus for you. I hope that things come back around, and that you're back with us soon! 

I should have another update tomorrow, guys!

There are some good references about the vehicles and equipment used in OPERATION GREIF, Otto Skorzeny's special unit that was to use captured U.S. equipment and vehicles to wreak mayhem behind American lines and to eventually capture the bridges over the Muese.

A good place to start(I'm sure someone will contest this ) are OSPREY-ELITE SERIES #11 Ardennes 1944: Peiper and Skorzeny, author-Jean Paul Pallud. The other is BATTLE OF THE BULGE Then and Now by AFTER the BATTLE Pulications, author Jean Paul Pallud. You could also do online searches for info and photos.

In the above titles there are some good accounts as to the effectiness of this unit, how it was deployed and it's ultimate fate.

I hope this helps.

This may be my last post here since I no laonger have the time to keep up or the $$$ to participate in this hobby's new more expensive era. Also, I don't think that I have much to offer that anyone would be interested in. The hobby has zoomed past this 59 year old hump and in my old age, I'm finding more important things to be worried about than what color DUNKLE GELB really was.

So, carry on. Don't let the "experts" keep you from doing what you want or like. Just DO IT! Most importantly--HAVE FUN! After all, it's only a hobby.

I hope to keep building and I hope that I may have the time and energy to post some of my work in the future either here or some where.

So, hug your loved ones, take a deep breath, feel the sun on your face and be thankful that you can.

Al

I am sitting reserve up here in NY so I am away from my references, but I seem to remember that they were destroyed quite early in the campaign. 

If anyone lives in the Pheonix area, the BotB reunion is this weekend.  http://www.battleofthebulge.org/

Maybe someone could ask the question?

Doog,

I am grooving on what you've done with OD!   Thank you for the toot on how you accomplished it.  I will have to try that on one of the OD beasts in the stash

Cheers

Dave

Thanks, Dupes and Rob!

Dupes, I wish I had some onfo for ya on that but I think that very little is reallly known about these tanks. It would have been great to hear from one of the veterans who knew something first hand about them, huh?

Well done Doog. That's some excellant painting and weathering my friend.

Rob

Doog - bang up job so far. Your take on the modulation technique is very interesting.

From a historical standpoint, does anyone know how well this camoflage worked? Is there any record of what sort of deception and damage the Germans were able to do with this set up? It would seem to me that a Panther is a good bit larger than an M-10...but I suppose at night or in inclement weather (or combat) one wouldn't notice things like that too readily.

madmike wrote:

A well worn doppleganger, Karl! Did that EVER get that weathered in servce? 'Spose they did being winter and all. Regardless, the paintwork is excellent. Cheers Mike

Mike, yup--these got quite shabby-looking, as a matter of fact; see the photos on the previous page in response to Manny's question! They were pretty filthy by the time photos had been snapped, and that's how I'll model it, based upon what most people know of this vehicle.

A well worn doppleganger, Karl!

Did that EVER get that weathered in servce? 'Spose they did being winter and all. Regardless, the paintwork is excellent.

Cheers

Mike

the doog wrote:

I hope I don't disappoint!

  NEVER!

Thanks, Mike, Manny, and Steve!

Mike, this "OD thang" might actually steer me to a (dare I say it?!) Sherman or other US tank! I'll have to se how hard the "pull" back to the Dunklegelb is after I"m done! lol!

Manny, you're right about those markings--I'm sure there actually WAS overspray on many of the real tanks.I just never got a good feel for the masks. Maybe someday..?

Thanks, Steve--I think I've still got a way to go yet. I'm putting thought into this one (around the other "secret" build). Weathering the OD is not as "automatic" as the DY panzers! I hope I don't disappoint!

   Very nice Karl, if you were trying to achieve the look of an armored vehicle that's been sitting in a cold wet Belgium field you've done it and some 

the doog wrote:

Thanks, bill and Bill! Bill, I have looked into templates, but to be honest, I think the quality of decals is so good in these kits nowadays that it's quicker to just slap 'em on. Templates can be troublesome over curves and details too sometimes, and if you get leakage around the edges then you're painting out the overspray. I admire the guys who can get good results with them, but I've never had much luck with them for some reason?

Holy Excrement Karl!!!!

I almost missed this one. The modulation and shading is fantastic. Looking real good. Underside yellow....hummmm.

Nice work on the damage to the fenders. By the way....Great to have you back building.....its quiet around here without you.....Bill gets stuck carrying the Germaholic WIP load (no offense to anyone else).

Well now I can sit here in my bunker as I have you marked as a target!!

PS as always...nice fingers!!

Rounds Complete!!

lexesbenz wrote:

Beautiful job Karl!! will this be at the upcoming show?

You too,  Marc, Jon, and Aurora! Thanks for looking in and leaving some ! ......

Karl, it looks fantastic! I have a hard time sometimes making plastic look like metal. You certainly don't have that problem here! Great looking build, I like how you weathered it. I'm anxious to see the seen you'll place it in.

Jon

Neat looking effect you have there doog.  i like it.

Thanks, bill and Bill!

Bill, I have looked into templates, but to be honest, I think the quality of decals is so good in these kits nowadays that it's quicker to just slap 'em on. Templates can be troublesome over curves and details too sometimes, and if you get leakage around the edges then you're painting out the overspray.

I admire the guys who can get good results with them, but I've never had much luck with them for some reason?

Looks fantastic, Karl, really, some cool effects I will try to emulate...

But, you did mention the clear coat, and your aversion to it, and I can't help but wonder why you don't either paint your markings on with a stencil, or use dry transfers.

I painted the stars on my Sherman, they just look...well, painted on, and they take the weathering sooooo well.  I think it's a Lion's Roar stencil, I will check, if you want.

I humbly offer this as, perhaps, a way to return all the great advice you have given me.  Try it, you'll love it.   

Bill

Jeff, Bill, Bish, and Stick Man--thanks for your comments and approval! I hope I can live up to everyone's expectation on this "different" build for me.!

Here's a small painting update---been actually working on something else "completely different" (but WWAYY cool!--hint: "brrRAAP!" ) but managed to get some color modulating on this.

First of all, I got the tracks built up now and the decals on over some light acrylic gloss; yup, I had to do it with those big stars! It really starts to look mean with the big sneakers on...oops, too bad I put its "hat" on crooked--that's not glued down yet, so don't worry! You'll also note that I put in a light application of MIG premixed filter "Ochre for Gray/Sand" to give a little more warmth to the finish before I start color modulating.

The tracks are still drying--the tissue is giving me that nice sag....

Next, I took some Windsor & Newton"Olive Green" plus some MIG 502 Abt. "Dry Mud" and mixed up a greenish OD color in some MIG thinner.

...and then I would put down a dab...

...and then rub it in with a clean brush. I did this all over the tank.

On the left, the un-modulated hull; on the right, the "done" turret so far.

Here's some shots so far of where I'm at....getting there slowly but surely.....You can see that the garish appearance is being toned down and brought together. I've also added some rust coloring to the tracks and mufflers...

Well, I"m in the process of finishing the other project--soon to be debuted in another forum!--and am working on the tracks here....thanks for looking in all, and for your patience!

I agree with what everyone else has said. Another very well thought out build and something you don't see everyday. Then next time I see you do something "run of the mill" will be the first time. You never fail to dissapoint, my friend. Can't wait to see more!

Regards,

Jeff

Fantastic painting so far, Karl.

Very very nicely done.

Looking forward to weathering,

Bill 

Cool looing paint job Doog I think it will look really great after the wathering

Here's a porsche getting the works on a rotisserie.

Looking good doog!

The Germans did indeed paint the hull undersides and didn't leave them in primer. Hulls were manufactured separtely and were finished on large spindles/turntables as part of the final assembly process. Look up the pics on the assembly line at Henschel for Tigers and you'll see perfect examples. Same thing with pics available of StuGs undergoing assembly at Alkett.

RickLawler wrote:

Hi Karl, I totally agree with your early paintwork philosophy...the more contrast the better during the early stages.  It takes B^!!$ to press forward with a "glaring" model staring back at you, but this shows that you have a vision and are confident of your skills. A small vignette with a US GI will be nice. Take care, Rick

If this comes out half as good as one of your models, I'll be pleased!

Terry--thanks too, for the affirmation! I appreciate your kind words!

Bish--ah, well that makes sense. ALuminum would be a perfect reason not to paint.

I think, however, that the Germans used to "spin" their hulls on some big apparatus and paint the whole thing pretty thoroughly.

Hi, Karl great to see you back at the bench, great subject and brilliant work as usual so far. Reading through the post so far I am inclined to agree with your take on the painting. The preshading looks brilliant and I hope all the extra work pays off the way you plan.

Terry. 

the doog wrote:

Bish wrote:   I noticed you painted the underside yellow. Have you seen pics or read that they did this, or is it just a guess. Just a guess, Bih. I figured these Panthers would have been modified from already-existing Panthers, and that the would have painted them "on their feet", so to speak. WIth the inner wheels still on them, perhaps? WOW, that's weird that they don't paint the bottoms of your AFVs--don't you worry about rust?

No, and it never seems to be a proble. Warriors are aluminium so not sure if that makes a difference. But then the 432's we had, which date back to the 60's, are also unpainted underneath. I have never found rust an issue on AFV's apart from a bit of surface rust where paint has worn away when the vehicle has been left standing for a bit. Thats the main reason i am spaten with my rust on kits.

Would be interesting to know what the Germans, and other's, did to the underside of their AFV hull's in the war.

Hi Karl,

I totally agree with your early paintwork philosophy...the more contrast the better during the early stages.  It takes B^!!$ to press forward with a "glaring" model staring back at you, but this shows that you have a vision and are confident of your skills.

A small vignette with a US GI will be nice.

Take care,

Rick

Bish wrote:

I noticed you painted the underside yellow. Have you seen pics or read that they did this, or is it just a guess.

WOW, that's weird that they don't paint the bottoms of your AFVs--don't you worry about rust?

That is looking nice. For one minute i thought 'hang on, i thought he was doing it OD, now its turning German yellow'. I would never of thought to lighten OD with yellow.

I noticed you painted the underside yellow. Have you seen pics or read that they did this, or is it just a guess. I only ask because i always paint the undersides of mine bare metal for 2 reasons. 1) i figure why would the Germans paint it there and 2) because our AFV's, warriors, Challys and so on, are also bare metal underneath.

subfixer wrote:

Are there any special instructions on how to paint the top? I've wondered how they expected to pass as an open topped AFV from the air. I know that the weather was bad and the air forces were pretty much grounded, but what if the hadn't been? Was there a paint scheme to make it look like an actual M-10? The Christie suspension would be a pretty good giveaway even with a pair of binoculars. Your project is looking really good, doog, thanks for posting it.

Are there any special instructions on how to paint the top? I've wondered how they expected to pass as an open topped AFV from the air. I know that the weather was bad and the air forces were pretty much grounded, but what if the hadn't been? Was there a paint scheme to make it look like an actual M-10? The Christie suspension would be a pretty good giveaway even with a pair of binoculars.

Your project is looking really good, doog, thanks for posting it.

oleander13 wrote:

Looks good to me so far Doog... Quick question for you though...are you basically using a darkened base color and filling in the recesses to create a shadow effect, similar to the way the aircraft guys shade panel lines?  Would the steps be something like this:   1.  Spray entire model with darkened base. 2.  Spray model with base color without covering up recesses and panel lines, hatches, or any place shadows, dirt, and grime may go. 3.  Spray lightened base color in areas where exposed to sunlight (center of panels, top of engine decks, etc). ?? I just started on a real M10 right now (1/35 AFV club).  If i get it to turn out half as well as this one looks like it's going to be I'll be doing otay!

That's pretty much the routine. You can also go back afterwards and re-emphasize the shadow color, too. I use several different shades of lightened color to get the effect.

Looks good to me so far Doog...

Quick question for you though...are you basically using a darkened base color and filling in the recesses to create a shadow effect, similar to the way the aircraft guys shade panel lines?  Would the steps be something like this:  

1.  Spray entire model with darkened base.

2.  Spray model with base color without covering up recesses and panel lines, hatches, or any place shadows, dirt, and grime may go.

3.  Spray lightened base color in areas where exposed to sunlight (center of panels, top of engine decks, etc).

??

I just started on a real M10 right now (1/35 AFV club).  If i get it to turn out half as well as this one looks like it's going to be I'll be doing otay!

Jester75 wrote:

Nice to see you back on the forums building again Karl, put that 2 wheeler up for a bit ehhh. She is looking good fer sure!!

No, the brapper is waiting for the next race--October 11th, I think? And then one more last one on November 1st--one of my favorite races! I can't WAIT! I hope it's not snowing by then!OrI'll have to borrow a snowmobile, like Mike said!

And thanks for the comments, Marc, Rob, Mike and M1!

Jester75 wrote:

Nice to see you back on the forums building again Karl, put that 2 wheeler up for a bit ehhh. She is looking good fer sure!!

It is probably getting too cold to ride. Next thing you know he will be breaking out a snowmobile.

Doog is back for 3 days and already a page 2 update... and I am just seeing it now?  At least it is a good reaosn... biz is good.

Glad to see oyu back at it doog.  there is once again balance in the universe.

I really like what I see Doog, the painting so far is awesome. This baby is going to look great weathered. Keep the updates coming.

Rob

Nice to see you back on the forums building again Karl, put that 2 wheeler up for a bit ehhh.

She is looking good fer sure!!

Mansteins revenge wrote:

yeah, I've seen those pics and others like them as well...they were taken months after the battle in most cases...I guess it depends on what you are modeling: A tank as it appeared on the morning of December 16th---or an abandoned one in the Spring of '45... Not saying your work isn't good from an execution standpoint, but just offering an opinion on what the state of the paint would be right after the Germans made the modifications (eg, the box-art).  After all, you replied to an earlier post of mine that you felt the Germans would have done a pretty thourough job in painting these OD overall in a neat fashion... I like it now, BTW, regardless of your interpretation...

I guess I'm modeling it then in its most familiar context--from the photos that most people know. That's why I"ll be posing an American GI on the deck, not a panzer crewman. 

If they release this in 1/72, I would probably do one in an operational role, posed in a small dio. If I did a dio with this one in the future, it would undoubtedly be in a "captured" scenario.

the doog wrote:

Mansteins revenge wrote: Karl, looks like your going about the painting per your usuual steps for the most part but I gotta say I'm not sure I agree with the way it is looking...these modified Panthers probably lived in their OD livery all of a few weeks at most before they were knocked out or left for lack of fuel...I believe the last of these were lost within a few days of the attack... ...I'm thinking the paint would have a lot "fresher" look to it...just an opinion...  First--THANKS, Nate! Glad you like it, and that you're digging that tool! Manny--I'd have to disagree. Look at these shots;   --pretty dirty if you ask me? I appreciate your input, and I think that some of what you say is true--that these tanks would not have the rust and "chippping" that a more heavily-abused tank would see, but as far as the actual paint itself--the light-play is just a part of the way I see "scale effect"--light, shadows, etc. I would do this for a "clean" tank as well. But in this case, these tanks were used in some awfully foul weather and environments, as so photographs show plenty of room for weathering. Maybe you'll like it when it's done? And THANKS TOO, WILL!!!

Not saying your work isn't good from an execution standpoint, but just offering an opinion on what the state of the paint would be right after the Germans made the modifications (eg, the box-art).  After all, you replied to an earlier post of mine that you felt the Germans would have done a pretty thourough job in painting these OD overall in a neat fashion...

I like it now, BTW, regardless of your interpretation...

Mansteins revenge wrote:

Karl, looks like your going about the painting per your usuual steps for the most part but I gotta say I'm not sure I agree with the way it is looking...these modified Panthers probably lived in their OD livery all of a few weeks at most before they were knocked out or left for lack of fuel...I believe the last of these were lost within a few days of the attack... ...I'm thinking the paint would have a lot "fresher" look to it...just an opinion...

Manny--I'd have to disagree. Look at these shots;

--pretty dirty if you ask me?

I appreciate your input, and I think that some of what you say is true--that these tanks would not have the rust and "chippping" that a more heavily-abused tank would see, but as far as the actual paint itself--the light-play is just a part of the way I see "scale effect"--light, shadows, etc. I would do this for a "clean" tank as well. But in this case, these tanks were used in some awfully foul weather and environments, as so photographs show plenty of room for weathering.

Maybe you'll like it when it's done?

And THANKS TOO, WILL!!!

I've been waiting for this one, and it's going up nice and quickely!

It looks great, can't wait to see it done!

Karl, looks like your going about the painting per your usuual steps for the most part but I gotta say I'm not sure I agree with the way it is looking...these modified Panthers probably lived in their OD livery all of a few weeks at most before they were knocked out or left for lack of fuel...I believe the last of these were lost within a few days of the attack...

...I'm thinking the paint would have a lot "fresher" look to it...just an opinion... 

I'm liking the looks of this one! Lost your touch? I doubt it!

While I have you, I'd like to say 'thanks' for a suggestion you made a while ago concerning the cutting tweezers from Micro Mark......they REALLY are an awesome tool. I don't know how I got along without them!

Nate

Here's a painting update, guys!

All paints are Tamiya. I started with a really dark OD pre-shade--a lot of Black added to Olive Drab Tamiya #62--the "old" 62.

I hypothesized that the tank would have been Dark Yellow underneath, as it would have been painted on it's tracks?

The tank was then shaded with straight OD, then lightened with Dark Yellow, and then some straight Desert Yellow used sparingly for the highlights...it looks slightly glaring in contrast now, but all the weathering will tone it down and bring it togeher. I believe that you have to start with harsh contrasts like this in order to make t "pop" under the weathering filters.

The turret sides were left un-lightened. I didi this so as to deliberately play with shadows on the turret...

Overall look so far...

The wheels were similarly shaded...

...with the insides left in DY...

Here's one last shot...note the "shadows" under the mantlet and barrel..

Time to clean up the wheels now and work on the tracks..I hope I haven't lost my touch? I have to admit; it looks so purdy right now that I just want to decal it and put it on the shelf, but.....ah, you know us Weatherheads! lol!

panzerguy wrote:

Doog, nice to see you back. I was wondering when we'd be seeing one of your wips again. Like Manny said great choice.    Here's an idea, how about painting the front half, from the muzzle to middle of the turret OD and the rear half in a three tone scheme?  You could paint the rear part of the plates on the turret with the red oxide. That would make for some serious color variations.

I want to do something fairly accurate with this, and not get too "hypothetical" Lots of that going around lately--seems almost "trendy", and I want to try to stay "within the lines" a bit more with this one.

But thanks for the suggestion!

Great subject, karl. 

I'm really looking forward to your take on it. 

Rick

Mansteins revenge wrote:

the doog wrote: Thanks for the posts, guys! It's been good to get back to the bench again. There's just so much to build, so little time--you kow the routine! Manny, that would be ab interesting build, but I don't know how accurate that would be. The way it loks to me, these tanks have been pretty thoroughly modified in a workshop, and it looks like they were pretty welll painted, from what I can tell? A guy on Armorama did a quick build of one already, and he painted it similar to what you suggested--he even has old turret numbers on the back hatch, and I think DY wheels. I think I'm going to go more with an overall OD--my instinct tells me that, knowing the Germans, and the long odds on this plan working, they were probably pretty thorough in their execution of it. Will be going for a base coat today...pics later, perhaps.... I wonder if they used new Panthers for the mods or rebuilt field units??? If they used existing ones, it would be cool to see some of the original livery still intact... Of course, there is not enough documentation to determine exactly what colors were used---or even if the Germans used the same OD color as the American shade or just used their RAL Green??? Was just thinking it could add a lot color interest to an otherwise [olive]drab build...could even use red-primer on the inside faces of the armor "shell"... Regardless, just some ideas, I'll be watching this one closely !!!  I like the damaged fenders, by the way...

Anhoo. what I said was that these tanks were most likely already-existing tanks, but it's possible they were new off the line. In any case, I think that the whole "Operation GRIEF" was pretty thoroughly planned and executed, and I don't see the meticulous Germans to have just slopped a coat of paint on.

A guy did one of these over on Armorama, and did it where he had old turret numbers showing through a light coat of DY on the rear. I found that "creative", but IMHO, a bit of a stretch in terms of probability? He also had DY wheels.

I thought about doing something perhaps with some red primer, but red and greens don't exactly "play nice" chromatically...it might wind up looking like a "Christmas Panther" lol!

I think I'm going to go fairly straight-OD on this. I'll do some tonal variations of course, but my gut tells me that the Germans would have been pretty thorough in painting this vehicle rather completely.

subfixer wrote:

I wonder what the Jerries did with that factory applied zimmerit?

...of course that would be funny..."Sir, I see a column of M-10's approaching---and they are covered in zimmerit!!!"

  Doog, nice to see you back. I was wondering when we'd be seeing one of your wips again. Like Manny said great choice.

   Here's an idea, how about painting the front half, from the muzzle to middle of the turret OD and the rear half in a three tone scheme?  You could paint the rear part of the plates on the turret with the red oxide. That would make for some serious color variations.

I must have been living under a rock, I didn't even know DML finally moved this kit to the shelves....after 6 or 7 (?) years 

Looking forward to seeing this one completed though.

the doog wrote:

Thanks for the posts, guys! It's been good to get back to the bench again. There's just so much to build, so little time--you kow the routine! Manny, that would be ab interesting build, but I don't know how accurate that would be. The way it loks to me, these tanks have been pretty thoroughly modified in a workshop, and it looks like they were pretty welll painted, from what I can tell? A guy on Armorama did a quick build of one already, and he painted it similar to what you suggested--he even has old turret numbers on the back hatch, and I think DY wheels. I think I'm going to go more with an overall OD--my instinct tells me that, knowing the Germans, and the long odds on this plan working, they were probably pretty thorough in their execution of it. Will be going for a base coat today...pics later, perhaps....

Of course, there is not enough documentation to determine exactly what colors were used---or even if the Germans used the same OD color as the American shade or just used their RAL Green??? Was just thinking it could add a lot color interest to an otherwise [olive]drab build...could even use red-primer on the inside faces of the armor "shell"...

Regardless, just some ideas, I'll be watching this one closely !!!  I like the damaged fenders, by the way... 

Thanks for the posts, guys! It's been good to get back to the bench again. There's just so much to build, so little time--you kow the routine!

Manny, that would be ab interesting build, but I don't know how accurate that would be. The way it loks to me, these tanks have been pretty thoroughly modified in a workshop, and it looks like they were pretty welll painted, from what I can tell?

A guy on Armorama did a quick build of one already, and he painted it similar to what you suggested--he even has old turret numbers on the back hatch, and I think DY wheels. I think I'm going to go more with an overall OD--my instinct tells me that, knowing the Germans, and the long odds on this plan working, they were probably pretty thorough in their execution of it.

Will be going for a base coat today...pics later, perhaps....

Looking real good Karl!Nice work on the damaged fenders.

Nate

Finally.

Welcome back.

Looking good so far, waiting for paint.

Bill

Hey Karl,

The planets are back in alignment welcome back Karl!   I am looking forward to your interpretation of this vehicle.

AHHH......

  A rerturn to normalcy.

the doog wrote:

Well, even though this will probably disqualify it for an OOB entry in a contest, I still coudn't resist putting in some damage on the fenders.

Off to a great start and glad to see you're getting in some build time Karl! The rules on OOB usually say you can't add anything...they say nothing about taking stuff away...so this one would still qualify as OOB with what you're doing to it. Right up until you added the wire on the headlight that is.

Well Well will wonders never cease? It's about time Karl.

Tony the Mutt

Nice to see your still building Doog, and it's looking good so far. I agree with 'ya manny, the color contrast would be very cool.

looking forward to seeing more updates Doog.

Rob