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Monogram 1/35 M48 Patton

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  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Monogram 1/35 M48 Patton
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, November 13, 2011 11:47 PM

Just cracked open the box on this classic...  This kit was the very first armor model I ever built, and the subject of the very first diorama I ever built, way back in about 1974... 

This is what Shep Paine did with it back about then....

http://www.itzproductions.com/images/Shep_Paine/Patton_Tank_1.jpg

http://www.itzproductions.com/images/Shep_Paine/Patton_Tank_2.jpg

Hope I can do it justice now that i got 35 more years of experience, lol...

Stay turned...

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, November 13, 2011 11:55 PM

Whoah.. Forgot about the lower hull being in two halves...

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Monday, November 14, 2011 12:17 AM

Hans,

I look forward to seeing your updates on building the kit.

Side note:

I'll also be interested in reading about the paint brands and types of paint you use.

Seems there's  something of a meltdown occurring due to the lack of Tamiya paint and I'm curious if you are using craft paint on projects.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Monday, November 14, 2011 2:09 AM

Hello!

It's always nice to see one of 'em being built - I like this tank no matter the scale. A few months ago I finished building one in 1:72: link. So Hans, I wish you good luck on your build!

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, November 14, 2011 7:59 AM

I grabbed one of these kits using the 50% off any one item coupon at Michael's a month or so ago making it $12.50. I plan to build it using the old Lo Models M48/M60 conversion set from the mid 80s. Although designed for the Tamiya M48A3 and Tamiya M60A1, the parts look to be a drop in fit. The set went for about $7 back in the day, but you could convert three different kits, two M48s and one M60A1, with the set which is quite a bargin.

That set would make the Tamiya M48A3 into either a US M48A5 or German M48A2GA2 and the old Tamiya M60A1 into an M60A3TTS. The set came out before Tamiya upgraded their M60 series kits and before Academy came out with their M48A5/K.

I never used the German M48A2GA2 conversion because it only cosmetically made  the diesel engined A3 look like a gasoline engined A2. It added a German style cupola/machine gun, main gun/mantlet/searchlight, smoke dischargers, headlights, side view mirrors and turret stowage box. It did not address the external air cleaners that should not be present on the A2 or the 3 vs 5 return roller difference between the A2 and A3.

Having the old Monogram M48A2 reissued makes this conversion much simpler. The Monogram M48A2 was the first tank model I ever owned. My dad built it for me and I used it to play with my army men. I remember breaking off road wheels and road wheel arms, losing hatches and just about any small detail items. My dad made plenty of repairs for me; I remember globs of gray putty, probably something like JB Weld or liquid metal of some type holding road wheel arms in place.

I recently ran across one I had built as a kid and then repainted when I was in college. I painted over the Vietnam War markings to simulate my first tank, an M48A5. I'd guess I was around 11-13 when I built this kit and 20 years old when I repainted it. I'm such a packrat that I still have the original box, instructions and Shep Paine dio sheet. The bent antenna is from 20+ years of the tank sitting in a box, virtually dust free because of that.

Here's a photo of that build from around 1974-76 (estimated) and repainted in 1984-85 along with the original box dated 1972. Feel free to laugh, but I was quite proud of the kit back then.

And here's the Lo Models conversion set that I've been dragging around for about 22 years or so:

 

I don't know about your kit Hans, but my 1972 box, my 2011 box and my Monogram Models history book all call this kit 1/35 scale. This kit is still the best M48A2 tank model in injection molded plastic. Not bad for a model that hit their catalog in 1958!

  • Member since
    April 2010
  • From: Somewhere in MN
Posted by El Taino on Monday, November 14, 2011 8:29 AM

Hans von Hammer

Whoah.. Forgot about the lower hull being in two halves...

That's exactly what took a big chunk of time when I started it by the beginning of the Summer. Lots of filling and sanding but all that its being done. I just got involved with other aircraft and the M48 is in a lonely corner. Will stick around to see your work Hans.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Dripping Springs, TX, USA
Posted by RBaer on Monday, November 14, 2011 8:30 AM

Hans, looking forward to the build.

Ron, I pick up those Lo Model kits whenever I see them, have one and a half now. The Urdan-style cupola is pretty good.......They also did some semi-workable late tracks (T148?) that were pretty good, I think I still have a few pieces left. I used the majority of them in a dio I gave away a while ago.

Apprentice rivet counter.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, November 14, 2011 9:09 AM

RBaer

Hans, looking forward to the build.

Ron, I pick up those Lo Model kits whenever I see them, have one and a half now. The Urdan-style cupola is pretty good.......They also did some semi-workable late tracks (T148?) that were pretty good, I think I still have a few pieces left. I used the majority of them in a dio I gave away a while ago.

Who's Ron? I have a couple of the track sets as well, T-142 not T-148 though. I used a set to make my M60A3TTS along with the parts from that conversion set. That was another issue regarding the conversion set. It included only one set of updated air cleaners, but did not show their use on the M60A3TTS which are required.

  • Member since
    March 2006
Posted by TD4438 on Monday, November 14, 2011 9:21 AM

I built this kit yet again earlier this year and loved every minute of it.I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

Based on the movie 'Patton'.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Monday, November 14, 2011 9:50 AM

I bought one of the re-issues too.  I can also confirm that this kit is and has always been 1/35, not 1/32.  You can use Tamiya's M48 parts on it to add details too.   

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, November 14, 2011 1:01 PM

Ok, ok... I made a mistake on the scale.. Monogram had a hard time deciding what scale to make their 1/30-something armor kits in back in the day, and I missed... Let's move on..

I've got the Tamiya M48 as well..  I don't plan on kit-bashing either of them, although I DO want to build both an AVLB and a CEV from the Monogram M48 kits, so I'll be picking up a couple more of 'em... The price is too good to NOT do those kind of conversions...

However, I digress...

I've got the hull halves and grill assembled, but need to stop there because I don't have any good interior shots of the driver's compartment yet, and I need to build that before I can add the top of the hull...

What I DO have handy is some interior shot of the M103 Heavy Tank.

QUESTION 1:

Is the driver's compartment of the M103 (below) similar enough to the M48's to use the M103 pictures as guide in constructing the driver's compartment of the M48?

 QUESTION 2:

Since there's no easy way to construct a complete turret basket for this kit, what does it "look like" ionside the hull and immediately behind the driver's seat?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, November 14, 2011 4:31 PM

As far as an AVLB, there were both M60 and M48 chassis AVLBs, but the CEV was based on the M60A1 and not the M48. You can't get to to a CEV from the Monogram kit.

Here is a shot of the driver's hole on an M48A5:

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Monday, November 14, 2011 7:08 PM

Nice to see you bumping around these parts again HvH! Beer

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Monday, November 14, 2011 7:29 PM

He's back!!!!!  Nice to see you in greese and tracks again.  I'll keep my binos on this one

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Los Angeles
Posted by dostacos on Monday, November 14, 2011 8:33 PM

Sprue-ce Goose

Hans,

I look forward to seeing your updates on building the kit.

Side note:

I'll also be interested in reading about the paint brands and types of paint you use.

Seems there's  something of a meltdown occurring due to the lack of Tamiya paint and I'm curious if you are using craft paint on projects.

I was at the big brick and mortar shop Sunday, and they got their first load of Tamiya paints in with the new labels

Dan support your 2nd amendment rights to keep and arm bears!
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Virginia
Posted by Wingman_kz on Monday, November 14, 2011 9:02 PM

I picked up one with a 50% coupon at Micheals too. Been working on it for a couple of months now, haven't had much free time. Probably won't look like much when it's finished because I've been experimenting with washes and pastels trying to improve my weathering skills. May have gone too far. It's strictly out of box with hatches closed. Once I get the tracks to where they're presentable I'll install them and take a couple of pics. Don't expect any extreme close-ups. lol

Tony

            

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Dripping Springs, TX, USA
Posted by RBaer on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 7:19 AM

Sorry, Rob, lots of errors yesterday morning......

The Lo Model box pic reminded me of the fact that there's a gun tube in there I need, sweet, thanks.

Apprentice rivet counter.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 7:22 AM

the CEV was based on the M60A1 and not the M48. You can't get to to a CEV from the Monogram kit.


Thanks, Rob... I was afraid of the M60-only CEV issue since I couldn't find a pic anywhere of an M48 chasis'd CEV. Thanks for the pic of the driver's hole too... By the by, what would you see of the turret basket behind the driver's seat if the turret is pointed either to about the 11 or 2 O'Clock? Is it mesh, a door,  or is the basket solid in that area?

Nice to see you bumping around these parts again HvH!


He's back!!!!!  Nice to see you in greese and tracks again.  I'll keep my binos on this one

Thanks for noticing, Bill & Redleg... Been stuck in the aircraft hooch far too long and needed to get myself back to living with my azz in the grass among the "Great Unwashed"... Them airdales get offended by having me upwind or somethin'...

Had to do a quick-build armor subject last week just to get right again, an Italeri PzKpfw 38(t), but it ain't ready for photos yet since it looks like it just rolled out the facotry doors of the Skoda plant... I'll get it right when I take a breather from this Patton... It's nothing special, just an S.O.B. project  to get used to roadwheels again..

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 7:29 AM

Also.. What variant is this M48 anyway?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 7:38 AM

RBaer

Sorry, Rob, lots of errors yesterday morning......

The Lo Model box pic reminded me of the fact that there's a gun tube in there I need, sweet, thanks.

Three barrels, plain 105mm for the M48A5, thermal shrouded 105mm for the M60A3TTS and the German style 105mm for the M48A2GA2. One issue I noted long ago, but forgot was that both the M48A5 barrel and M60A3TTS barrel use the same exact inner piece to mount the tube to the mantlet, but the set only includes one of those mount pieces (part A69). It isn't hard to scratch one from a piece of thick styrene rod or tube or even a thick chunk of sprue, but it was odd that they included only one.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 7:43 AM

Hans von Hammer

Also.. What variant is this M48 anyway?

M48A2

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 7:45 AM

Thankee, Gino...

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 7:46 AM

Hans von Hammer

Also.. What variant is this M48 anyway?

The photo or the Monogram kit? The photo is of the M48A5, the Monogram kit is an M48A2 gasser.

With the turret at the 11 o'clock position (over the left front fender), you'd have the gunner's station right behind the driver. You'd see mesh screen with some hydraulic controls, etc. behind the mesh. With the turret at the 2 o'clock position (right front fender), the loader's station would be behind the driver. Mesh with the 13 round ready rack (basically 90mm rounds stood on end pointing upwards) if the vehicle had ammo loaded.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 7:56 AM

Yeah, the model..  An A2 Gasser, got it...

So if I show the ammo in the ready rack, the 90mm amm would be featuring some of these, yes? (Not the "rubber bullet" blue rounds), or is it too "early" to have the silver bullets in the load-out?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:06 AM

Not an expert on 90mm ammo, so I don't know if the casing are brass or aluminum in color. If in Vietnam, I'd suspect that sabot and HEAT would be non-existant on the tank and the load out would be HEP, beehive and WP. Willie Pete needed to be stored upright in the 13 round ready rack when they were 105mm rounds. I assume the same requirement applied to the 90mm ammo.

Beehive tended to be stored upright in the ready rack as well. That way the loader could set the range before handling the round. If it was stored in the honeycombs, he would have to pull the round out, set it down, set the range, pick it up and load it. If it was on the floor, all he needed to do was set the range, pick it up and load it. Much faster.

While this is the ready rack of the M48A5 with 105mm HEAT and sabot dummy rounds, it would be similar for the 90mm ammo.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:29 AM

As far as the CEV goes, I know somewhere in my piles of boxed junk, I still have one of the volumes of the CEV -10 sitting around getting moldy and musty. I always hung onto it because it was my original MOS (12F) before I got commissioned Armor.

I trained on the M60 AVLB in AIT, but my National Guard company had an M48 AVLB. I wasn't assigned to the AVLB and probably only trained on that vehicle maybe a handful of times after AIT. I do know that the driver's hatch was welded shut and the driver's compartment was relocated to the big circular area where the turret used to be. It was a 2-man crew, the driver and the commander who deployed the bridge. The vehicle wasn't armed except for the crewmen's side arms and I think we had a grease gun.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:36 AM

Ok, that makes sense about the ammo, since there wasn't much of a threat of armor engagements with the NVA..   (Knew about WP having to be stored upright since I'm an old Redleg. lol..  ) Speaking of which..Does anyone know why that was so?

Well, I'll tell ya, just because there's somebody reading this that doesn't..

There's a lot of guesses out there as to why, the dumbest being that "the WP will leak out"...  That would be bad, since Willie Pete spontaniously ignites and burns upon contact with air... It's also quite unlikely that'll it ever happen (but never say "impossible, because SOME Private, SOMEWHERE will prove you wrong..)...

The truth of the matter is that there's an airspace (void) at the top of the round.  WP is a solid, so it won't "leak" out... Well, it's solid most of the time.. In climates like desert or tropical jungles, where high temps inside an AFV or turreted arty are the norm, it can be a bad thing since WP melts at 111 degrees F, and it can get a LOT hotter inside the tank...   If the round is stored on its side in these temps, the filler can melt  that moves the sirspace to the side of the round, which will throw off its ballistics all to hell and it'll "wobble" as it flies though the air.. This means that the round won't hit what it's aimed at, so it's stowed in an upright position...

White Phosphorus is used as a screening smoke, marking smoke, or incendiary (meaning it starts fires).   It is not, say again NOT a "Chemical Weapon"...

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 8:49 AM

A tank's WP round also contained high explosive. When fired at a bunker or prepared position, it smoked the bad guys so they couldn't see you but it also made a big boom to reduce the position's defense.

The quickest way to identify the tank as either an M48A2 or M48A3 are air cleaners on the fender. If you look at your Monogram kit, on the fenders just aft of the turret, you will see a couple of spots where there is molded on pioneer tools on the left rear fender and track jacks on the right rear.

On an M48A3 and an M48A5, those spots will house large, rectangular air cleaners (side loading for an A3 and top loading for an A5). An M48 and M48A1 have an entirely different looking engine deck as well.

Another way is that M48A2 have 3 return rollers and M48A3 have 5. An M48A5 could have 3 or 5 since the tanks were rebuilds and the number depends on what the tank started out as.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 9:40 AM

Ok.. So I'm golden with calling this thing an M48A2 (for the name-plate), yes?

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Tuesday, November 15, 2011 11:51 AM

WP is a solid material with a low melting point. In air, WP burns so it is packed with a protective coating. The fear was if stored on its side and the ambient temperature was warm, the WP in the round would "deform" in the cavity and cause the round to fly irratically....sort of a curve ball.

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

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