Bench time is always at a premium these days...glad to see you got some time in and made progress with this one. Nice job on the wheels.

I tried something I saw in the magazine--adding artificial shadows using the paint. Darker paint on the shadowy areas, lighter paint on the very top surfaces.

That's fine if your lighting is constant and the same on your display area as your paint-bench.. But IMHO, it looks ridiculous when the lighting changes but the "shadows" don't...  One can see the color-bands and it looks like what it is..  Figures need that kind of shading, vehicles don't...

Save that kind of work for shadow-box dioramas...

Hans von Hammer

"That's fine if your lighting is constant and the same on your display area as your paint-bench.. But IMHO, it looks ridiculous when the lighting changes but the "shadows" don't...  One can see the color-bands and it looks like what it is..  Figures need that kind of shading, vehicles don't..."

Save that kind of work for shadow-box dioramas...

I respectfully disagree Hans.  What about a painting or sculpture?  The artist may try to duplicate their studio lighting at a musuem or show but it's not always possible.    Post shading assumes that the lighting is from above and is executed accordingly.  I know, as with many facets of modeling, it's a personal thing but this technique, IMHO, has really advanced the presentation quality of our models...and for me, has added a new challenge and level of enjoyment.

If you enjoy it, more power to ya...

With all due respect though, I'm just saying that, as a judge,  I can see it, and it'll cost you points, IMHO...  Put it on a table at a contest, and it'll jump out at me as "color-bands" if the light angle is anything but your personal bench-lighting angles...  Plus, lighting doesn't really need to be "scaled-down" for an AFV in 1/35th and larger...  The model's contours are big enough that natural high-lighting and shadows fall into the correct areas no matter the angle or intensity...  

Guess its "artistic" presentation vs "realistic" presentation, and, as you correctly pointed out, a personal taste issue... Another judge may be enamored with the technique and look and score it higher...  Paintings are "2-D" and "vertical", so their shadows need to be added, but the models are 3-D... A solid OD tank on canvas would indeed look ridiculous, even if it was a 3-D representation painting, like on box art,  rather than a "Profile"..

Sculptures are the same way, but as they decrease in size, as figures do (which are indeed sculptures), they need the shadows and high-lights added, since the shadow areas are too small to be seen with normal lighting, and high-lights are not intense enough to stand out from the overall color of say, a Panzer-black uniform..

In shadow-boxes, you try to replicate a certain time of day (or even night), and the shadows & high-lights can be accentuated, sure, even moved around after mounting the model in the diorama... Can't really do that with paint...  But that's because the lighting (and the viewing-angle is restricted) angle remains constant in both angle and intensity and is controlable, and color variations and shadow locations can be easily changed with fill-lighting....

Bottom line is that I think pastels are a better way to go, especially since they can easily be changed if you leave the model out in the "open" and don't like the look once you've left the bench-light....  You can weather it "in place"...  'Course, I'm a diorama guy, and display models aren't my thing.. I personally can't stand the look of straight-up, VFW-look "shelfers" on my display shelves in "Ft Livingroom"...

But that's just my opinion..

Hans: A good healthy discussion, I like that.   I'm interested in discussing the term "band lines"...but I don't think we should do so on CallSignOWL's thread...unless we get permission.

hey, I think its an interesting discussion, so the derail is fine with me. :)

no updates yet...work's been killer!

SMJmodeler

Hans: A good healthy discussion, I like that.   I'm interested in discussing the term "band lines"...

Why, thankee, Owl..

What I mean by "band-lines" is the "color-bands" that're left between the the two shades of paint, for lack of a better term....  "Demarkation lines" is probably a more accurate term.. 

They're especially apparent of the sides of flat-turrets and on the hulls that're rather on the flat-side... I recall one issue of FSM that featured a build using that painting technique (sorry, don't remember who did it and when), and when the model was in one position it was fine, then when it was shot from another angle, the demarkation lines between the two shades was fairly easy to see.. At least, at close-up viewing, which is what judges do..  It might look great at four feet, but at four inches, you could have a problem..

That said, it's certainly a valid technique in some modeling situations where the lighting is fixed and focused (like a shadow-box), but once you lose control of the lighting, the appearance changes.. Another puzzle is the amount of contrast.. Getting the two shades paint to feather and smoothly blend aside, do you make the shade so subtle that it goes unnoticed, or do you plunge in and make a readily apparent transistion?

Personally, I don't know which.. I don't paint shadows on anything but figures because, as I mentioned, they're small, but I think the tank's big enough to cast it's own shadows with the available light and, as a result, change the shade (and the areas that are in shadow)...  

Now, this isn't what I'd call a weathering technique, because it isn't...  It doen't effect the shade or tint through fading, color-shifting, whether it's wet or dry, new or old paint, and/or the method in which it was applied (Factory or Field)..

  While weather certainly does play a role in the appearance, because the weather affects the amount of available light, it's not a constant.. Painting "shadow" with a 2-D technique onto a 3-D object that can cast it's own shadows isn't a good idea unless you can control the "weather", IMHO...  That's why I said I felt the technique was best left to shadow-box dioramas.. It's a permanent effect on a temporary angle otherwise..

  Trying to paint "light effects" is best left to 2-D representations, as I see it...  I think that modelers who are more "artist" than modeler have used the technique out of habit from painting on canvas rather than on a model, and generally, you see them do that kind of painting when photography is their primary means of display models to others, and it's kinda carried over into the world of "personal-viewing"...    

Hans von Hammer

What I mean by "band-lines" is the "color-bands" that're left between the the two shades of paint, for lack of a better term....  "Demarkation lines" is probably a more accurate term.. 

Gotcha', it's the visibility of this line that you feel is not appropriate, correct?

Hans von Hammer

They're especially apparent of the sides of flat-turrets and on the hulls that're rather on the flat-side... I recall one issue of FSM that featured a build using that painting technique (sorry, don't remember who did it and when), and when the model was in one position it was fine, then when it was shot from another angle, the demarkation lines between the two shades was fairly easy to see.. At least, at close-up viewing, which is what judges do..  It might look great at four feet, but at four inches, you could have a problem..

I think you're referring to Rick Lawyer's Marder, I forget the month/year.  I think the viewing distance as it relates to judging is the real issue here.   If this technique is considered only for it's abilty to score higher at a contest...you're right it will probably lose points.  I prefer the greater distance approach...the normal viewing distance, say 3'-4'.

Hans von Hammer

That said, it's certainly a valid technique in some modeling situations where the lighting is fixed and focused (like a shadow-box), but once you lose control of the lighting, the appearance changes.. Another puzzle is the amount of contrast.. Getting the two shades paint to feather and smoothly blend aside, do you make the shade so subtle that it goes unnoticed, or do you plunge in and make a readily apparent transistion?

I prefer to blend.  If you would, please go view my Tiger I in my current post called "Tamiya Tiger I-DONE!!!" If you scroll through the thread you'll see the paint job in it's early stages and the final product.  I value your input, especially from a judge's viewpoint... please take a look and come back here so we may continue this conversation. 

-Steve-

yay, I finally had another day off! Time to get to work.

dark panel line wash on the M41

then my first attempt at track weathering. I found some old makeup powder and liked the red-brown color, so I slopped it on.

it wasnt until after this was completed that I held it up to the light....and little sparklies reflected back! I guess makeup has shimmery stuff in it...well dang. Tanks dont sparkle!!

I thought quickly, and remembered the construction equipment along teh highway and how dusty they are. SO I ran out side, and got some good ol' Nebraska dirt  from my back yard. I made sure to scoop the really dry stuff, and then mortar-and-petsle'd it to make it even finer.  Then covered the road wheels in thinned tan paint as an adhesive and dropped them in my dirt. Brushed off the excess, and voila dusty tank pieces! I did the same for the tracks and tank sides/belly. It seems to stick pretty well. The red-brown still shows through, and the dirt/flat tan mix covered op the shimmer, so yay!

Sounds like an innovative way to overcome an unexpected result! It also shows that there are limits to cross-adapting things to model building if you're not careful.

I thought quickly, and remembered the construction equipment along teh highway and how dusty they are. SO I ran out side, and got some good ol' Nebraska dirt  from my back yard. I made sure to scoop the really dry stuff, and then mortar-and-petsle'd it to make it even finer.  Then covered the road wheels in thinned tan paint as an adhesive and dropped them in my dirt. Brushed off the excess, and voila dusty tank pieces!

Atta girl! Improvise, adapt, and overcome!

That's exacty what I do with my armor... Nothing looks like dirt more than dirt.. "Ain't nothing like the real thing, baby!"...

I thought about using make-up powder many years ago too.. Luckily, I noticed the "sparkles" before I put it on the vehicle.. Otherwise, that stuff would work nicely..  The red-brown is a perfect shade for armor in the Central Highlands of South Vietnam, BTW..  Just take a look at the M-41s in Hue during the Tet Offensive...

If you would, please go view my Tiger I in my current post called "Tamiya Tiger I-DONE!!!"

I did take a look, and I can't see what it is you're describing, but that's the fault of my screen, not yours...... I must say though, that whatever it is, it's a great-looking model..

CallSignOWL:  Looking good, Nice save on the tracks!!! 

Hans von Hammer

I did take a look, and I can't see what it is you're describing, but that's the fault of my screen, not yours...... I must say though, that whatever it is, it's a great-looking model..

What I was asking you was..."Does my model have the band lines that you refer to/dislike or did I blend the shades effectively?

...and thanks for the comment on my model, it was a fun build!  

Looking sweet Miss Owl...

thanks for all the comments guys!

I have a couple of days off this week, so be looking for updates soon. Im really pleased with how this is turning out, and this definitely wont be my only tank!

I finished posing/filing the little army men and began painting..but I got hung up on some of the smaller details and put them aside for now. Here's how they looked primed:

But the tank is done!!

excuse the bajillion pictures, I was kinda excited

awesome build callsignowl

Clay

Very nicely done.

If I may offer a small suggestion, you may wish to paint in the periscope windows around the cupola.

Phil_H

Very nicely done.

If I may offer a small suggestion, you may wish to paint in the periscope windows around the cupola.

umm, what are those?

On either side of the Commander's cupola (the raised ring with the hatch on top of the turret) there is a pair of oval-shaped clear windows on either side.

Nice!!!

Hope you enjoyed the break from masking canopies and unlike aircraft with armour a little dirt don't hurt!

Phil_H

On either side of the Commander's cupola (the raised ring with the hatch on top of the turret) there is a pair of oval-shaped clear windows on either side.

thanks. I'll get those painted.  :)

Congrats on completing your first armor build!

Looks good ! I hope we see more of your Armor builds here .

Owl, nice Bulldog!  It looks like the real thing in a couple of those photos!  

nice Job !

CallSignOWL:  I'd say just about everyone here would be proud to call this our first tank!  Nice work!...I see a budding "heavy weathering" modeler in the works too...

SMJmodeler

CallSignOWL:  I'd say just about everyone here would be proud to call this our first tank!  Nice work!...I see a budding "heavy weathering" modeler in the works too...

I like things dirty.....

hehe!

Thanks all for the complements and suggestions! Ill make sure to post the figures once I get them finished.

like I mentioned earlier, this will most definitely not be my only tank build! Fun stuff!!