First Build - M113 APC

It's a pretty decent kit, one of the first Tamiya kits I built in high school. The nice thing about the kit is the full interior. Remember to paint the floor bare aluminum. The interior is normally sea foam green, a very light green similar to Sky Type "S", but very early vehicles had a gloss white interior.

That is a good kit for a first armor build. And you can have lots of fun with the interior, including the engine compartment, if you so choose.

Jet: your best bet on the interior color would be using "British sky" for the sea foam green.

I'm currently working on a Aussie M113 with the T50 turret for the "Keepers of the Peace" group build.

MMA (Model Master Acrylic) pale green might be a close match too. i think the engine is white but it has been a few years since my mortar tracks.

Engine compartment should be the same color as the troop/drivers compartment, Light Green or White. I remember the engine itself being Blue.

waynec

MMA (Model Master Acrylic) pale green might be a close match too. i think the engine is white but it has been a few years since my mortar tracks.

MM Pale Green is too dark.  It has to be lightened with some white to looks right.  I would go with the other suggestions as they are good colors for Sea Foam Green.

Good luck on it.

that is a fun 1st kit. I've built it a couple of times!

here are my results to help choose a color. I used Tamiya XF21 Sky for my interior color.

the tracks are the metal tracks from Fruli.

enjoy that kit!

stikpusher

Engine compartment should be the same color as the troop/drivers compartment, Light Green or White. I remember the engine itself being Blue.

well you are younger than i am.

Not by that much there Wayne... LOL! But I do have more recent experience on them I am willing to wager.

waynec

stikpusher

Engine compartment should be the same color as the troop/drivers compartment, Light Green or White. I remember the engine itself being Blue.

well you are younger than i am.

The engine color could vary depending on the version of the papa chuck. I don't recall if the Tamiya M113 is a straight M113, which used the Chyrlser 75M V8 gasoline engine, or an M113A1 with the 6V-53 Detroit Diesel engine. Different engines could be different colors.

Here is an M113A2 transmission painted in a gloss sea foam green.

And here is an M113A2 engine (same basic engine as the A1) in a faded, flat light OD green color.

Rob you sure of the engine color? It looks like it is more sea foam color than faded OD paint.

Rob Gronovius

waynec

stikpusher

Engine compartment should be the same color as the troop/drivers compartment, Light Green or White. I remember the engine itself being Blue.

well you are younger than i am.

The engine color could vary depending on the version of the papa chuck. I don't recall if the Tamiya M113 is a straight M113, which used the Chyrlser 75M V8 gasoline engine, or an M113A1 with the 6V-53 Detroit Diesel engine. Different engines could be different colors.

Here is an M113A2 transmission painted in a gloss sea foam green.

And here is an M113A2 engine (same basic engine as the A1) in a faded, flat light OD green color.

Wow! To say you guys are awesome would be highly understating it. The pics are a HUGE help - all of them! As soon as I get some paint to plastic and sticking things together, I'm gonna post pics for y'all to scrutinize. I got a big holiday break from work, so I plan on getting a lot done

I was in a mech inf unit for a few years, but we had Bradleys. I've only ridden in a 113 once, and I think I remember the interior being that same light green. We took two or three to Iraq with us, but I think they just sat in the motor pool the whole time.

Speaking of the interior paint, I got a couple q's:

1. I know the interiors of these track vehicles are a gloss finish, but I don't remember them being very shiny, even after we PMCS'd the heck out of them. So, I don't want to do a flat finish in the interior, but I was thinking of going with a semi-gloss finish to give the appearance of a bit of age, and maybe would be more appropriate to scale - if that makes sense? Would I be correct in thinking this?

2. Would it be better to paint the hull interior before the exterior, or vice versa?

well you have 4 different veterans  spread out from 1974 (me) through you and 3 different colors based on a number of factors. so how many folks at a local contest will even know which color is correct. hell i painted the engine block  in my DANA red and it's a czexh 8x8 SPA from late 80s early 90s. doubt i'll have many czech artillerymen judging.

i saw the sky green and it is lighter and closer to the color. are you going to have some wear areas on the edge of the seats. even well maintained vehicles can get chupped up on the inside, especially edges. i don't know how this builds. is the interior on the hull bottom with the entire upper hull sliding over it? if so i would paint and weather the interior (don't forget inside top of hull) first. i have not build one of these so don't know how it goes together.

I've built this kit a number of times and and you have your hull pan then the floor goes in then the engine bay which you glue to the floor and has a cutout so it can go over the sponson in the hull pan. Thats how I build up the interior on the M113's I built and basically building it that way will allow the engine compartment to stay level and not lean so that once the glue cures and everything is dry I can pull it out to do the interior color and get the stenciling on. Now the central pillar that inserts from underneath the hull pan from the outside and on the kit it acts as a locking mechanism to lock in the roof in the event you want to remove the roof to show off the interior.

waynec

well you have 4 different veterans  spread out from 1974 (me) through you and 3 different colors based on a number of factors. so how many folks at a local contest will even know which color is correct. hell i painted the engine block  in my DANA red and it's a czexh 8x8 SPA from late 80s early 90s. doubt i'll have many czech artillerymen judging.

i saw the sky green and it is lighter and closer to the color. are you going to have some wear areas on the edge of the seats. even well maintained vehicles can get chupped up on the inside, especially edges. i don't know how this builds. is the interior on the hull bottom with the entire upper hull sliding over it? if so i would paint and weather the interior (don't forget inside top of hull) first. i have not build one of these so don't know how it goes together.

Exactly. My service covered three decades- 1983 to 2007, and Wayne and Rob, bookend me in years before and after. And the years I spent the most time with 113 series was 84-90. Although my last rides in 113s were in 99. I do recall on ones that I was responsable for that light blue engine, bare metal trannies, and the transfer case was the interior color. And we had spare parts that were all over the board in colors, some in the old Vietnam white and OD, and some in the newest CARC Green paint.

Yes I would recommend a semi gloss for the interior. And definitely paint the hull interior before you add in the roof. Much easier to do a thorough job that way. It is easy to build sub assemblies, paint them, then do final assembly.

Yes, I am sure of the engine color. I took the photos, but that engine was an old Detroit Diesel (not sure if the Tamiya kit is the same engine or a gasser).

One of the benefits of being a modeler and commanding a maintenance school; I got to take photos of a lot of equipment like M109s, engineer junk, etc. that armor officers have little contact with.

Great! I can finish the interior, then use the pillar to hold the roof in place and tape off any hatch openings to do the outside

Rob, I just did a little research and found out that the model I have is the A1 variety with the Chrysler 75M. The pics I pull up on the interwebs, including yours, do appear to be OD, while the tranny and the xfer case mostly come up that light interior green

You guys are seriously the bomb! I have a much better idea of a build plan now - which I hope to finish tonight. Now I'm kicking around whether I want to attach the side skirts or not. I'm thinking yes, because it's more painting and assembly practice

this will help me when i build my M106A1 gun track

jetmaker

Rob, I just did a little research and found out that the model I have is the A1 variety with the Chrysler 75M. The pics I pull up on the interwebs, including yours, do appear to be OD, while the tranny and the xfer case mostly come up that light interior green

Your statement is in error. You can't have an A1 with the Chrysler 75M gasoline engine since the diesel engine is what makes the vehicle an M113A1. I did some checking on my own and the original Tamiya kit is a gasoline powered M113. The Academy kit is the one with the diesel engine and builds into an M113A1 or M113A2.

I believe the gasoline engine is probably why the most recent boxing of the Tamiya kit comes without the interior.

Wayne, this link is to the photos of my old M1064, an M113A2-based version of the 120mm mortar carrier. There might be some shots of the hatch and interior that you can use.
 http://gallery3.kitmaker.net/showgallery.php/cat/16919 

hi rob

cool. thanks i need to check the kit now as it is the old tamikya one. wish someone would make an M-114 w/ 20mm.

did you ever shoot at graf?

Ah, my bad. I thought the A1 was the first mass production model, and the A2 was the later one with the diesel motor. Thanks for the correction

I think I have a good outline for my build plan. Trying to keep it simple. Basically, I'm going Tamiya Sky over a primer base of Flat White for the interior, and Tamiya OD over Flat Black for the exterior. I'm not putting too much forethought into handling the tracks and the weathering, so that I don't get bogged down in planning. I like to plan, but I LOVE jumping in and getting my hands dirty! I'm admittedly anxious to get started cutting, painting and gluing

I think for the tracks I might do a base coat of a rust-like color, then hit the pads with flat black, and dry brush some lighter, gray colors to show wear and lighten for scale. For weathering I'm thinking maybe a very slight wash of black or dark brown and dry brushing of a light tan or light gray. I'm going to let that develop as I go though. For now, I just want to focus on basic build quality. Even if I end up foregoing weathering altogether, for this first build, I'll be okay with that. I'll consider completion in and of itself a success. My main objective is learning and progressing

The basic difference in the 113A1 and 113A2 is suspension. The A2 had a shock absorber added to the 2nd roadwheel arm. And a new exhaust stack and grill set up. A1 was the changeover from a gas to diesel engine. A3 changes are the external fuel cells

I have to say I love this thread.  Planning a 113 for the keepers of the peace GB so all this info is awesome!

waynec

hi rob

cool. thanks i need to check the kit now as it is the old tamikya one. wish someone would make an M-114 w/ 20mm.

did you ever shoot at graf?

I did plenty of gunneries at Graf, but on M60A3TTS, M1A1 and M1A1 Heavies since I was a tanker.

Stik, the main difference between the A2 and A3 is not the external fuel tanks; those are present on non-A3 versions like the M981 FIST-V and the M1064 120 mm mortar carrier pictured in the link above. Those two vehicles are based off of the M113A2 and have external fuel tanks. To further muddy the waters, Canada added the fuel tanks to their vehicles when they went from the A1 to A2 so a Canadian M113A2 looks different from a US M113A2 because Canada's has the external fuel tanks.

The main difference between the M113A2 and M113A3 vehicles is the turbo-charged diesel engine and the improved transmission. In addition to the spall liners, the driver's controls changed from the laterals to a steering yoke. While the A2 is a decent ride, the A3 moves like a scalded dog and can haul some serious butt.

Tracks on a well used vehicle to not carry a lot of rust. I use burnt umber for the track, Tamiya NATO Black for the rubber and then wash with the color of the dirt I'm using. Before I do the wash of dirt, I very lightly dry brush the high spots of the track and the side of the guide horns with steel.

In all my experience with Bradleys, I never saw rust on any of our tracks, we were in the field quite a lot.

my "ride" at the wash rack, note the tracks. hard Texas clay, no rust after two weeks in the field.

Wow, yeah, seeing that pic puts it into perspective. We had the ODS versions, and I never really examined the tracks up close - I always lucked out and never had to break any, only ever had to carry a few links here and there. I kind of assumed from looking at other model pics, and remembering the light reddish-brown color that it was rust, but seeing this pic made me realize it was just plain old dirt

I think I'm gonna try your method of a black or gunmetal base, followed by a wash of a light brown dirt-looking color, then dry brush a lighter metal color for wear

I'll be honest, and of course this is just my opinion, so if I'm wrong PLEASE let me know, but I see a lot of armor models that are very highly weathered, and even though in most cases the techniques are extremely impressive, a lot of times they seem overdone to me. I'm curious what a lot of you guys' takes on weathering are. I'm not trying to stir up anything with this, I think I'm just trying to form my own approach to weathering before I actually try it

Rob- I completely forgot about those changes on the A3 series. Apologies for the erroneous information on that.

Jet I am with you there on weathering. Dirty, dusty, and muddy yes, but chipping and rust are very much overdone on AFV models nowadays. You wont see rust on the hull, hatches etc. on a 113 as they are made from an aluminum alloy armor. The only place that would rust is the the tracks and spare track shoes (if those were old and unpainted). And rust on the tracks would wear off as soon as the vehicle started moving.

Find what you like and run with it.

With modern bare metal tracks, I paint the tracks an earth brown color. I then wash them with a darker burnt umber color to bring out the shadows and finish up with a tan dry brushing to highlight. Rubber track blocks are painted a dark gray after the initial earth brown and before the burnt umber wash.

Unless the vehicle sits idle, like the ones at my maintenance school, rust doesn't last long but some of it does settle in the nooks and crannies of the tracks.

Just wanted to give an update:

This is probably going to seem like I'm extremely slow, but I just now completed my first step, which is the initial washing of the parts. I sprayed them with Simple Green, then brushed them lightly with one of those stiff-bristle toothbrushes from an army issue gun cleaning kit, then I soaked them in warm water with a splash of Ajax dish detergent, rinsed with distilled water and blew dry with a can of compressed air followed by blotting with paper towel. In the future, I'm going to use my airbrush to blow dry instead of wasting $ on cans. I told you guys I was slow and meticulous, haha!

I still haven't purchased my paints yet, but I am almost 100% on colors. I've been doing a TON of research. Not to sound like I'm flattering, but I pretty much use this forum as a no-BS checker for gathered info. I have pretty much settled on using enamels for everything except the vinyl tracks, where I'll use acrylics. I've decided on Model Master Olive Drab (ANA 613) for the exterior, and Humbrol Beige Green for the interior. Whoever reminded me to paint the floor pan in the troop compartment aluminum, thanks a bunch for that! And the advice on the color of the tracks is huge too! I knew something didn't settle with me just right when I see a lot of the armor models done with extremely rusty tracks - definitely if they had been sitting somewhere for long periods, but not if they were moving regularly. I'm actually considering leaving the tracks supplied in the kit their original color, which is a gun metal kind of color, and dry-brushing steel and silver for wear, black on the pads, and an overall dusting of a light brown/tan color for a little dirt. I still haven't decided whether I'm going to prime the tracks first or not, since the base I have in mind is very similar to the color they are already. My main concern here is paint adhesion, but from what I've researched it appears I should be okay if I use acrylics, or even pigments, with acrylic thinner

My next step is to build my sub-assemblies and order my paints, and to get some practice in with my airbrush. I took it apart, cleaned, and re-assembled it the other night, but I haven't hooked it up and run anything through it yet. By the time my paints arrive, I should be ready to throw some colors down!