M48A5 Patton 1970s-80s Paint Schemes, Markings?

I commanded an M48A5 one summer at Fort Drum. I was in the Vermont Army National Guard and the unit was a part of the 50th Armor Division. I also did a summer AT with a NJARNG unit at Fort Drum that was in the 50th as well and used an M48A5 too.

The tanks were painted in the standard 4-color MERDC scheme. As far as markings, the tanks at Drum didn't have any markings. They were a draw fleet and whatever unit showed up, drew whatever tanks they needed. They used them for less than two weeks and returned them to the equipment concentration site.

The only tanks that carried markings were the few at the various armories at the unit home stations. That was one or two for the entire company.

The 2nd ID tanks did have the complete set of markings while the tanks were is use in Korea. They were used in the late 70s and early 80s until replaced by the M60A3TTS.

I left the unit in 1986 when I received an active duty commission, but was told that the 50th Armor Division transitioned to the M60A3TTS in eary 1989. The Vermont's brigade (86th Brigade) became a part of 26th Infantry Division later in 1986. I am not sure when the 86th Brigade transitioned from the M48A5.

Here are some photos of the tanks I took in 1984 and 1985 at Fort Drum, New York.

Here is a photo of a former Vermont Army National Guard M48A5 that was on display at Fort Knox, Kentucky in 2005.

Wow, thanks, Brother- sounds like we chewed some of the same dirt as tankers at Ft. Knox and Ft. Drum! I may have to build an M48A5 in tribute to your unit- a "forgotten tank of the Cold War!"

The fact that there seems to be so few pics of US ARNG M48A5s out there- aside from yours- is motivating me to research them. Am I correct that in your pics, the M48s don't seem to have unit or individual markings- not even a simple "50" for 50th AD?

Or are the codes just hard to see in the pics? The big color photo of the one on display at Ft. Knox seems to have stenciled bumper codes in black, right?

How the heck would you tell them apart in the field or the motor pool, when you were assigned them?

As an M1 Abrams tanker in the 1/104th CAV, PAARNG, I'd sign for, let's say, M1A1 tank "A4," i.e., bumper codes "28 (armor triangle) 1-104" on the front left fender, and then "A4" on the front right... i.e., A Troop, 1st Platoon, Tank #4...and have to go find it in a motor pool full of rows and rows of tanks.

How would you find yours in a field full of them? Do tell...

Top loading air filters, urdan cupola, and a 105mm gun.

That's an easy conversion. May have to see what I can coble together lol.

72d Tank Bn, 2ID tanks in Korea also had .50 cals on a pintle mount on the Urdan cupola and an M60D at the loaders positions (stateside tanks had 2 M60Ds), and smoke grenade launchers with smoke round storage boxes.

AUSTanker

Wow, thanks, Brother- sounds like we chewed some of the same dirt as tankers at Ft. Knox and Ft. Drum! I may have to build an M48A5 in tribute to your unit- a "forgotten tank of the Cold War!"

The fact that there seems to be so few pics of US ARNG M48A5s out there- aside from yours- is motivating me to research them. Am I correct that in your pics, the M48s don't seem to have unit or individual markings- not even a simple "50" for 50th AD?

Or are the codes just hard to see in the pics? The big color photo of the one on display at Ft. Knox seems to have stenciled bumper codes in black, right?

How the heck would you tell them apart in the field or the motor pool, when you were assigned them?

As an M1 Abrams tanker in the 1/104th CAV, PAARNG, I'd sign for, let's say, M1A1 tank "A4," i.e., bumper codes "28 (armor triangle) 1-104" on the front left fender, and then "A4" on the front right... i.e., A Troop, 1st Platoon, Tank #4...and have to go find it in a motor pool full of rows and rows of tanks.

How would you find yours in a field full of them? Do tell...

 

 

 

An educated guess says temporary markings regarding field use. For NTC and REFORGER rotations where you draw vehicles out of a common use motor pool for the duration of the exercise, we would add markings using 100mph tape, the green stuff, not OD. That stood out a typical visual range but not excessively so. Chevrons, or other geometric shapes and hash marks would denote company and platoon. Since you pretty much lived with the vehicle from the time you drew it until you turned it in again, you didn’t need to worry about bumper numbers or motor pools really. You had the serial number memorized after a few days of doing the daily 2404. And those were stenciled on the vehicle.

As far as the paint scheme goes, if you plan on going with the solid overall ”OD” tank, use dark green, FS# 34079, that was the basic overall green in use that vehicles were usually delivered in at that time, not actual OD, which was phased out with the MERDC schemes. The MERDC schemes were then usually applied at the receiving unit. Or sometimes they were simply left in the overall Dark Green.

And as shown in the photos above, you can choose from several different MERDC schemes, Spring or Fall Temperate (withholds or without the Sand highlight), Gray Desert...

HeavyArty

72d Tank Bn, 2ID tanks in Korea also had .50 cals on a pintle mount on the Urdan cupola and an M60D at the loaders positions (stateside tanks had 2 M60Ds), and smoke grenade launchers with smoke round storage boxes.

 

 

That appears to be an M-48A2 with a 105mm. I don't see the filter boxes. Are they blending in really well?

I love this photo, Gino. It has a lot to say.

stikpusher

 

 

AUSTanker

Wow, thanks, Brother- sounds like we chewed some of the same dirt as tankers at Ft. Knox and Ft. Drum! I may have to build an M48A5 in tribute to your unit- a "forgotten tank of the Cold War!"

The fact that there seems to be so few pics of US ARNG M48A5s out there- aside from yours- is motivating me to research them. Am I correct that in your pics, the M48s don't seem to have unit or individual markings- not even a simple "50" for 50th AD?

Or are the codes just hard to see in the pics? The big color photo of the one on display at Ft. Knox seems to have stenciled bumper codes in black, right?

How the heck would you tell them apart in the field or the motor pool, when you were assigned them?

As an M1 Abrams tanker in the 1/104th CAV, PAARNG, I'd sign for, let's say, M1A1 tank "A4," i.e., bumper codes "28 (armor triangle) 1-104" on the front left fender, and then "A4" on the front right... i.e., A Troop, 1st Platoon, Tank #4...and have to go find it in a motor pool full of rows and rows of tanks.

How would you find yours in a field full of them? Do tell...

 

 

 

 

 

 

An educated guess says temporary markings regarding field use. For NTC and REFORGER rotations where you draw vehicles out of a common use motor pool for the duration of the exercise, we would add markings using 100mph tape, the green stuff, not OD. That stood out a typical visual range but not excessively so. Chevrons, or other geometric shapes and hash marks would denote company and platoon. Since you pretty much lived with the vehicle from the time you drew it until you turned it in again, you didn’t need to worry about bumper numbers or motor pools really. You had the serial number memorized after a few days of doing the daily 2404. And those were stenciled on the vehicle.

As far as the paint scheme goes, if you plan on going with the solid overall ”OD” tank, use dark green, FS# 34079, that was the basic overall green in use that vehicles were usually delivered in at that time, not actual OD, which was phased out with the MERDC schemes. The MERDC schemes were then usually applied at the receiving unit. Or sometimes they were simply left in the overall Dark Green.

And as shown in the photos above, you can choose from several different MERDC schemes, Spring or Fall Temperate (withholds or without the Sand highlight), Gray Desert...

 

Vallejo's "U.S. Forest Green" for those who like Vallejo products.

Its a close match.

M. Brindos

That appears to be an M-48A2 with a 105mm. I don't see the filter boxes. Are they blending in really well?

Looking at it closer, I don't think so.  I think the grass camo or the hose cover for the plow are obscuring them. Here is another picture of it.

M. Brindos

 

 

HeavyArty

72d Tank Bn, 2ID tanks in Korea also had .50 cals on a pintle mount on the Urdan cupola and an M60D at the loaders positions (stateside tanks had 2 M60Ds), and smoke grenade launchers with smoke round storage boxes.

 

 

 

 

 

That appears to be an M-48A2 with a 105mm. I don't see the filter boxes. Are they blending in really well?

I love this photo, Gino. It has a lot to say.

 

Five return rollers, not an A2. A2’s were built with three return rollers. A0‘s & A1’s had five return rollers, and A3’s & A5’s were rebuilds of older models. A4 was the designation given by the US for Israeli upgunned and re engined early model M48s - essentially Israeli made A5’s.

I’m pretty sure that the diesel air filter boxes are hidden under the straw camo on the fenders.

AUSTanker

The fact that there seems to be so few pics of US ARNG M48A5s out there- aside from yours- is motivating me to research them. Am I correct that in your pics, the M48s don't seem to have unit or individual markings- not even a simple "50" for 50th AD?

Or are the codes just hard to see in the pics? The big color photo of the one on display at Ft. Knox seems to have stenciled bumper codes in black, right?

No, not even a 50 since the tanks at Drum could be drawn by either the 50th (NJARNG), the 42nd ID (NYARNG), the 26th ID (MAARNG). These were not "go to war" tanks since the units would deploy to Germany and draw M60/M60A1/M60A3 tanks in theater.

As Stik says, 100 mph tape with temporary bumper numbers on the tape. Chalk was used to give the tank a temporary name on the side.

My trip with the NJARNG unit, they didn't even have enough people to draw two full tank platoons.

Yes, the one at Knox was a tank that had been bumper numbered because it was one of the few that resided at the Armory in Vermont. That tank didn't go anywhere beyond maybe a local parade in town and some driver training in the back yard, if the armory had one to use.

M. Brindos

Top loading air filters, urdan cupola, and a 105mm gun.

That's an easy conversion. May have to see what I can coble together lol.

Yes, it is. The first time this conversion was available in kit form was from Lo Models in 1988-89 time frame. It included parts to convert the Tamiya M48A3 into an M48A5, the Monogram M48A2 into an M48A2GA2, and the old original Tamiya M60A1 into an M60A3TTS.

Once Tamiya released their M60A3/M60A1 RISE/passive and Academy released the M48A5K, it made the conversion rather useless.

I found one online for $10, but unsure of the retailer. http://www.mustang-hobbies.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=LOM-3501

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/lo-model-3501-us-tank-conversion-accessory--132627

Rob Gronovius

 

 

M. Brindos

Top loading air filters, urdan cupola, and a 105mm gun.

That's an easy conversion. May have to see what I can coble together lol.

 

 

 

Yes, it is. The first time this conversion was available in kit form was from Lo Models in 1988-89 time frame. It included parts to convert the Tamiya M48A3 into an M48A5, the Monogram M48A2 into an M48A2GA2, and the old original Tamiya M60A1 into an M60A3TTS.

Once Tamiya released their M60A3/M60A1 RISE/passive and Academy released the M48A5K, it made the conversion rather useless.

I found one online for $10, but unsure of the retailer. http://www.mustang-hobbies.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=LOM-3501

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/lo-model-3501-us-tank-conversion-accessory--132627

 

I found one of the Lo conversion sets for $6 at a shop here secondhand, so I could not pass it up... not sure what I’ll do with it, since all of the conversions that it makes are now available as kits that I already have in my stash or have built... but hey, it was only $6.

I have an old one with leftover bits after I made an M60A3 before the actual full kit was released. Then when Hobby Lobby had an old rebox of the Monogram M48A2 on clearance for $7.50, I bought it to make it into an M48A2GA2. Of course, then Revell releases that full kit! But I do intend to finish that cobbled together kit.

Rob Gronovius

I have an old one with leftover bits after I made an M60A3 before the actual full kit was released. Then when Hobby Lobby had an old rebox of the Monogram M48A2 on clearance for $7.50, I bought it to make it into an M48A2GA2. Of course, then Revell releases that full kit! But I do intend to finish that cobbled together kit.

 

Yes, I was thinking of picking up another Monogram A2 at HL, and then using that with the Lo kit to make an early A2G. But now (of course) Revell Germany has announced that they will be doing one of those. My guess is they will add the half sprue from their GA2 to their A2/A2C kit.

I don't feel that the quality of the Lo parts are worth putting on a kit beyond the Monogram M48 or Tamiya old M48.

I bought both the Dragon M48A3 Mod B (originally to make an M48A5) and then the M48A5 when it was released. I was impressed with those two kits and they made me set aside my old Monogram M48A2 that I was tinkering into an GA2.

My only issue was that the Dragon M48A5 came with the T-152 tracks and the tanks I was on had the older T-97 tracks. Fortunately, I was given a set of the older style from a friend.

Rob Gronovius

I don't feel that the quality of the Lo parts are worth putting on a kit beyond the Monogram M48 or Tamiya old M48.

That makes perfect sense. Especially with all the new M48 and M60 kits that we now have available.

Hey Rob - I live 20 minutes from Drum - being a military brat my father retired here B/C he loved the area when his dad was stationed/training at Pine Camp (now Fort Drum) during WW2. I used to go climb on those M48s as a kid... and guess what? Some may still be there in the MERDC scheme - besides the Drum museum picture. The ARNG or Reserves, not sure which one, had some still when I last visited back in '07 or so. Brings back some great memories seeing that 'ol beast!

I should take a ride out there this week-end to see what's still there in the depot... they had a Sheriden there too.

Good to know, Brother! That was my experience with the M1 and M1A1 Abrams tanks- we used what tracks were available, and it wasn't always the very latest model!

It amuses me to see tanks online where an "expert" will insist that tank A only used Type XYZ tracks, or the M1A1 was only equipped with the newer "Big Foot" tracks...As you know well, we used what we had, nobody quibbles on what exact model tracks are installed- we were happy to get a working tank. 

And with the M48 series up to the M60A3, there's some fun leeway on what tracks could be used from the 1970s up to Desert Storm.

AUSTanker

Good to know, Brother! That was my experience with the M1 and M1A1 Abrams tanks- we used what tracks were available, and it wasn't always the very latest model!

It amuses me to see tanks online where an "expert" will insist that tank A only used Type XYZ tracks, or the M1A1 was only equipped with the newer "Big Foot" tracks...As you know well, we used what we had, nobody quibbles on what exact model tracks are installed- we were happy to get a working tank. 

And with the M48 series up to the M60A3, there's some fun leeway on what tracks could be used from the 1970s up to Desert Storm.

 

Austanker, you are correct on the tracks. Here is a picture of my old unit in Desert Storm. Still running the old style tracks. 3/35 Armor, 1st Armored Division.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50815293_595387387566557_4711741198597881856_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQk9cpyKk8pgX1NzIO44tcBD2Duui04wleOMbcXAzh05xysmMFVQpfFzotxDV0RBS3M&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=d82ba27635c605549b435a115378af9f&oe=5DEA5EBC

My brand new M1A1 circa summer 1989.

Rob Gronovius

My brand new M1A1 circa summer 1989.

 

Is that a Tas on the turret front?

Yes, the Tasmanian Devil was our company mascot. The XO's tank was traditionally named "TAZ", but we had to come up with an "A" name. So I called it the Almighty TAZ II.

We were "Animal" Company and I was Animal 5 as the XO.

bee yoo tee ful!! If you know that a six pack of beer fits perfectly in the smoke grenade launchers, you might be an old Abrams tanker!

Rob, we need to get that photo to some decal makers! For 1/35 Abrams tanks, there are a few aftermarket decals for Desert Storm, and then jump forward ten years and we see a few for OEF and OIF...but for pre-1991, we have only the sound of crickets chirping....odd considering the new wave of M1, M1IP, etc. kits out there...there could easily be a massive decal set of "Cold War M1s," with color profiles in a booklet, covering the M1, M1IP, etc. to the M1A1 up to Desert Storm (yeah, keep dreaming, right?)

Rob, was the bumper number for your tank 8th Infantry Division? Usually they stuck an I after the division number to designate an infantry division from an armored one. Also, I served with 2/77 Armor

9th Infantry division at Ft, lewis.

Ray

Yes, 8th ID (Mech) 5/77 Armor. We didn't use the "I" but some units did.

I commanded three tanks during my years there; A-21 an M60A3TTS and briefly a blade tank, A-65. Then two M1A1s, the one above and then an M1A1 Heavy Common we got in 1990.

I didn't get to stay on that 2nd Abrams tank too long since the Lieutenant Retention Board of 1990 purged a good number of first lieutenants and we were scrambling to fill shortages. I had to become the HHC XO because that lieutenant was separated from the Army. We had a marginal second lieutenant get bumped up to be the support platoon leader (normally one of the top first lieutenants) because the previous one died in a motorcycle wreck.

AUSTanker

Rob, we need to get that photo to some decal makers! For 1/35 Abrams tanks, there are a few aftermarket decals for Desert Storm, and then jump forward ten years and we see a few for OEF and OIF...but for pre-1991, we have only the sound of crickets chirping....odd considering the new wave of M1, M1IP, etc. kits out there...there could easily be a massive decal set of "Cold War M1s," with color profiles in a booklet, covering the M1, M1IP, etc. to the M1A1 up to Desert Storm (yeah, keep dreaming, right?)

 

Very easy to do our battalion before we went to the chevron on the sides of the skirts. Just the two blocks of bumper numbers front and rear, several stencils and the US star. Tank name and Taz for the company mascot on the turret front. I used to have the battle board from the bustle rack, but it went missing several years ago. Almost a stop sign shaped board, but a seven sided heptagon, tan with a black square. Since my tank was the XO tank, it had a white X inside the square. CO's tank had a - (dash).

His tank was named AL CAPONE, but his gunner thought it was some sort of Italian phrase ALCAPONE, and didn't realize it was an infamous gangster's name.

Here is a photo of another 8th ID tank, from the other tank battalion in our brigade (3rd Bde 8th ID). This was 5/68 Armor. No "I" after the 8.