Very cool! Is the .50 mount off a Sheridan or a M113 cupola? 

Thanks Stik.  The .50 cal mount is from an M551 Sheridan.

Oh very cool! Love seeing all these M48 and M60s around the forum lately. I'm getting a real education on Cold War armour. 

This is going to be awesome! Following with alacrity.

Thanks guys.  It has been fun so far.

I had a surprise when I got home tonight.  The M551 C sprue containing the gun mount piece was supposed to come in on Fri.  It was at my door today though.  Here it is installed and the actual to compare it to.

I fixed the M60D as well.  I had the bipod legs too far back.

I hope to get some paint on it by the weekend.

Really, really cool!

I'm getting itchy!

Thanks Mike.  I'm glad you are enjoying it.

Cool! Looking forward to seeing her with paint. 

Dang it, I do so love a good kit bash.

Is it just me, or does the Urdan cupola and the M551 MG mount look a whole lot like the original Chrysler cupola on the M48?

RBaer

Dang it, I do so love a good kit bash.

Is it just me, or does the Urdan cupola and the M551 MG mount look a whole lot like the original Chrysler cupola on the M48?

 

Its not just you...

Thanks for checking in guys.  The original Chrysler cupola was similar to the Urdan cupola.  Here is the Chrysler cupola.  It was supposed to allow the gun to be fired remotely from inside the turret, but wasn't very effective.  The enclosed M1 cupola was preferred and accepted over it.

The Urdan seems to be the next iteration and more streemlined.  It abandoned the under cover firing though for a free .50 cal.

Looking sweet!

The scissor mount for the TC's M60D was deadly if your fingers were near the mount when it was lowered or collasped.

Hmmm very interesting. Just starting to think I know a little about different versions of the M4 Sherman and all this about M48 and M60s just blows my mind... 

Gamera

Hmmm very interesting. Just starting to think I know a little about different versions of the M4 Sherman and all this about M48 and M60s just blows my mind... 

 

The M48A5 is a very late tank, even later than the early M60A1 tanks. There was a vacuum formed when the M60A2 with it's gun/missile launcher failed and the tank was removed from Active Army service. It was never fielded to the Reserve Component.

Those tanks were replaced by the later M60A1 RISE/Passive tanks in the Active Army. Those tanks were intended to round out the USAR and ARNG tank battalions. So now there is a shortage of medium tanks.

So older M48A3 tanks were upgunned and upgraded to M60A1 fire control standards and called the M48A5. The tanks were fielded to a few National Guard divisions, 49th AD, 50th AD and 40th Infantry Division, perhaps some more. The Regular Army used them in Korea with the 2nd Infantry Division.

As the Regular Army transitioned to the M60A3TTS, it freed up M60A1 tanks and those tanks went into the USAR and ARNG to replace the plain M60s and M48A5s. The two tank battalions in Korea went straight to the M60A3TTS. The battalions liked the loader's M60D the M48A5 had and cut the mounts off the tanks and placed them on the M60A3TTS.

So during a time in the late 1980s, the Total Army Armor Force used M60, M60A1, M48A5, M60A3TTS, M1IP and M1A1 tanks, with a lone M551A1 Sheridan battalion. I worked for the Directorate of the Total Army Armor Force at Fort Knox for a few months in 1991 and remember one of my tasks was trying to determine which version of tank each battalion used. It was a very big spreadsheet.

As a post note, the failure of the M60A2 led to the cancellation of the proposed M48A4. If the M60A2 was successful, older straight M60 tanks were to be converted into M60A2 tanks by removing the original style turret. Those original style M60 turrets were then going to be mated to M48A3 hulls thus creating the M48A4.

Ditto on Gamera's post. This is really interesting stuff. Glad there are so many people around who really know about this firsthand.

Ok, so now I am curious about the Taiwanese M48H variant. I know that it is not a US tank, but it seems like something of a step backwards. M48 turret with the 105mm gun on a M60 hull. Anybody know the story of why?

stikpusher

Ok, so now I am curious about the Taiwanese M48H variant. I know that it is not a US tank, but it seems like something of a step backwards. M48 turret with the 105mm gun on a M60 hull. Anybody know the story of why?

 

I'm also courious, did the Taiwanese pull the M60A3 turrets and add the M48 ones, or did they just buy the hulls. And if so, were are the M60A3 turrets at? Same with the M60A2 turrets.

M60_ tanker

 

stikpusher

Ok, so now I am curious about the Taiwanese M48H variant. I know that it is not a US tank, but it seems like something of a step backwards. M48 turret with the 105mm gun on a M60 hull. Anybody know the story of why? 

I'm also courious, did the Taiwanese pull the M60A3 turrets and add the M48 ones, or did they just buy the hulls. And if so, were are the M60A3 turrets at? Same with the M60A2 turrets.

Glad you guys are getting a lot out of this build and it is generating some great discussions.  

As to the ROC M48H / CM-11:

"The Republic of China (Taiwan) established the Armored Vehicle Development Center in 1980, and was tasked to develop military armored vehicles, and had cooperated with General Dynamics to develop the CM-11. The development of the tank has two main purposes, first was to avoid the limitations set by the US-PRC Joint Communique (17 August Communique), and second was to allow the ROCA to acquire Second Generation MBTs.

The CM-11 is a hybrid tank using the M48A3 turret with the M60A3 tank hull, combined with the new M1 Abrams tank's Fire-Control System (FCS). The United States designated it as M48H, where the "H" means Hybrid, and the Republic of China designated it CM-11 and named it Brave Tiger."

No idea what happened to the other tank parts, but it sounds like they were built in the US and my guess is they were left to the boneyard or melted down.

As a sub post, I had a friend who served in the California National Guard on M48A3 tanks back in the 70's.

They did their two week training at Camp Irwin, now the NTC. Because the M48's had blank rounds, they would take cases of softballs and grease them up and fire at each other. Lot of fun until you had to punch the gun tubes. He said they were Amazingly  accurate at 1000 meters.

stikpusher

Ok, so now I am curious about the Taiwanese M48H variant. I know that it is not a US tank, but it seems like something of a step backwards. M48 turret with the 105mm gun on a M60 hull. Anybody know the story of why?

 

Yes, the M48 turrets that were excess after some of the M48A3s were converted into M48 AVLBs that were not made into M48A5s. So there were extra M48 turrets.

Then when the M60A2 was cancelled, the Army decided to use those excess A2 hulls to become M60 AVLBs. The A2 hulls were newer so they were better bases for the AVLBs.

So the excess straight M60 (aka "Slick 60s") that were going to be made into M60A2s no longer had a use and the hulls were extra.

Now there are excess M48 turrets because the hulls were made into AVLBs and there are excess M60 hulls that were going to be made into M60A2s, but were cancelled.

So, you mate the excess M48 turret to the excess M60 hull and sell it to Taiwan. The turrets were brought up to M60A3 standards and the hulls were as well.

Well that explains that.

More info I didn't have. Thank you.

Rob Gronovius

 

 

stikpusher

Ok, so now I am curious about the Taiwanese M48H variant. I know that it is not a US tank, but it seems like something of a step backwards. M48 turret with the 105mm gun on a M60 hull. Anybody know the story of why?

 

 

 

 

Yes, the M48 turrets that were excess after some of the M48A3s were converted into M48 AVLBs that were not made into M48A5s. So there were extra M48 turrets.

Then when the M60A2 was cancelled, the Army decided to use those excess A2 hulls to become M60 AVLBs. The A2 hulls were newer so they were better bases for the AVLBs.

So the excess straight M60 (aka "Slick 60s") that were going to be made into M60A2s no longer had a use and the hulls were extra.

Now there are excess M48 turrets because the hulls were made into AVLBs and there are excess M60 hulls that were going to be made into M60A2s, but were cancelled.

So, you mate the excess M48 turret to the excess M60 hull and sell it to Taiwan. The turrets were brought up to M60A3 standards and the hulls were as well.

 

Now that all makes sense, rebuilding and combining the surplus inventory old turrets and hulls. And then adding the newer gun and fire control systems. Thank you for the backstory.

I was able to get some paint on it this weekend.  It will be in the MERDC Winter Verdant scheme.  The green and tan are airbrushed.  The sand and black squiggles are by hand.

I also painted the road wheels alternating tan and green as they will alternate on the hull.

Next up is some detail painting, adding the accessories, and weathering.

Oh cool, I was wondering if she's get MERDC or a more bland scheme.

Went and dragged out the Dragon M48A3 from the stash Friday.