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SdKfz 251/1 colours and markings

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  • Member since
    November 2005
SdKfz 251/1 colours and markings
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 18, 2004 2:52 PM
i have built a tamiya SdKfz 251/1 and i put it in my diorama, but i want to know what colours and number/divisions decals to put on. It is a WWII (oviously) western front, britixh and canadians attacking the germans. so far i have a Jeep, Churchill croc, pak 40, and a hanomag (SdKfz 251), and i plan on getting a universal carrier and a lyinx. What batles could this diorama be and what would the markings and colours on the SdKfz 251/1 be?
  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: Clovis, Calif
Posted by rebelreenactor on Sunday, April 18, 2004 4:11 PM
When i built mine last week the only decals for a division on the western front was the 21st Panzer Division but they were not on the western front until 1944. the Grossdutchland---Spelling--- decals was a unit in France in 1940 only. Hope this helps a little bit.

john


John
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 18, 2004 4:38 PM
It could represent the fighting aroung Caen after D-day as the British and Canadians tried to break out from the beach head. The SS division Hitlerjugend was involved in these battles. I will try to find out a little more for you (I have a book somewhere) if this sounds about right.

Matt
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 18, 2004 7:20 PM
thanks alot so far, caen sounds good, there is a map that takes place there in bf1942, one of my favorite maps. i'm guessing if the british were involed and it was shortly after d-day than there were crocs. now to find out what divisions that had the 251 were there.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, April 18, 2004 9:57 PM
well, it could be around the Battle of the Hedgerows(maybe?) or even Market Garden. I might not be right about Market Garden because the Germans would have to be SS and i am not sure if many Canadian troops fought in Market Garden. just my guess...My 2 cents [2c]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 19, 2004 12:44 AM
QUOTE: well, it could be around the Battle of the Hedgerows(maybe?)

Nope, no commonwelth troops there. Patton's 3rd army.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 19, 2004 9:12 AM
i havbe decided on caen. the germans will be the 12th SS. now to find the markings. just to conferm: the 12th did have the 251and the pak 40? and they did have infintry, right?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 19, 2004 10:44 AM
The 12th SS defintely had infantry and the Pak 40 was a standard anti-tank gun by that point in the war. I'm not 100% positive that it had 251s, but I'd be surprised if they didn't.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 19, 2004 10:58 AM
Yup, just checked, the 12th SS defintely had 251s.

Some links that might be useful...

http://www.chgww2.com/12ss/12ss_hist.htm

http://www.wlu.ca/~wwwmsds/haller.htm

http://www.chgww2.com/12ss/12ss_hbook.htm

Hope that helps. Have fun, and post some result pictures Smile [:)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 19, 2004 2:30 PM
Here is a photo of a 12th SS HJ SdKfz 251/7 in Normandy;



You can see the divisional symbol next to the driver's visor. HJ and Das Reich were among the last units to still use divisional symbols on their vehicles. Paint scheme would be overall dark yellow with a sprayed pattern of short, thin wavy lines of olive-green and red-brown.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 19, 2004 3:03 PM
standard SS Panzer division had 2 Panzergrenadeir regiments of 3 battalions each.
They would have 8 motor-drawn 37mm AT guns, 12 motor-drawn 75mm AT guns, 12 88mm DP guns plus 69 Self-propelled 75mm AT guns.

There would be 3329 motor vehicles of various types, at least one had to be a 251/1. Big Smile [:D]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 19, 2004 6:41 PM
lol....yeah, lot's of room to play with various vehicles there Smile [:)]
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
Posted by ajlafleche on Monday, April 19, 2004 6:51 PM
Sqaudron's old D-Day to Berlin features a 251/1 in ambush camo of yellow spots over the the green and brown disruptive pattern bu no spots on the yellow. This is listed as late France 1944 but no unit markings are visible.

Remember, if the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 19, 2004 7:09 PM
they were common in Armoured units
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, April 19, 2004 11:32 PM
Each Panzer Division had a Panzer grenadier battalion transported by the 251 for combat. The rest of the motorized troops were transported by trucks. SS divisions might have more. the 12th SS Panzer Division was known for executing Canadian POW's during the Normandy campaign. Vehicles would be dark yellow with olive green and red brown disruptive camo.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 9:30 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by hungfarlow

Each Panzer Division had a Panzer grenadier battalion transported by the 251 for combat.


What exacly are panzer grenadiers? i see this word alot but have no clue what they are. are they gernade infintry?

And does anyone have any pics of Vehicles with dark yellow with olive green and red brown disruptive camo. (might be hard seeing that color pics werent around during WW2)
i'll look around myself, might know a few sites, thanks again everyone for helping.

would this be like the colors?
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 4:31 PM
Panzergrenadiers were armoured infantry and were intended to go with the tanks in armoured transport (halftracks) followed by mechanized infantry in trucks. Due to the number of vehicles required this didn't happen often, Panzergrenadiers quite often rode on the tanks they supported.
That pic is exactly what you are looking for.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 4:19 AM
They were equivalent to the western allies' armoured infantry or the Soviet's mechanized infantry divisions, but due to the Germans lack of armoured transports and motorized vehicles, they were not much better equiped than regular British or American infantry divisions which were fully motorized.

One must not forget that the bulk of the German army were foot soldiers supplied by horse drawn wagons during WWII!

Panzer is German for amour. The grenadiers were originally infantrymen that carried and threw explosive bombs ignited by a fuse. The term grenade had its origin from the pomegranate fruit because of its resemblance to it. Later on the term were used for elite or guards units. Thus it would be more accurate to say that Panzer Grenadiers were guards infantry units transported by armoured vehicles instead of grenade throwers.

On paper they were supposed to be transported by armoued halftracks, but only one batallion were supplied and the rest were motorized infantry.

By the way, t3488g, where is that halftrack parked? The color of the halftrack looks like Testors MM Sand Grey instead of Testors MM Dark Yellow. I have seen information that claims that the Sand Grey is the correct color for Dunkelgelb, and that MM Dark Yellow is wrong.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 9:16 AM
i got the pic from http://www.jagdtiger.de/index2.htm. would this paint sceme be the same? i don't really like the above pic.

This is the vehical skin from the game: tiger hunt, if it doesn't turn out good i will get a in-game pic.
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Southern Maine
Posted by spector822002 on Wednesday, April 21, 2004 12:15 PM
The tri color scheme in the last pic posted was very common towards wars end , they also used a dark yellow and green only , and at the beginning german grey , almost all of the camo schemes were field applied , meaning that the units were basically given a spray can of paint or just a regular can and brush , and they went to town ! I would say that any of these schemes would be correct as there were still a few grey units around from the beginning , however I would go with the tri color myself as it just looks more like a military vehicle . And yes the SS did have these critters in thier armored infantry units . This is a great site for info and a few pics of WW2 german stuff , I have posted this many times .... http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzer.htm Good luck!Cool [8D]
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