Future Problems & (now) Some Solutions!

I use Future as a intermediary gloss coat for applying decals, in order to prevent silvering. As you've discovered Solvaset and Future do not play together well, unless you allow it to cure completely and which could take up to a week. I then use another coat of Future to seal in the decals for that painted on look. I apply yet another coat of Future mixed with some Tamiya Flat base in order to bring the paint job back to it's flat state. It is at this point that I would apply any washes or weathering.

I've read that another coat of Future will cure the Solvaset problem, but I've never tried it myself.

I'm not familiar with the W&N Sansodor solvent, but from your description of the performanace, I'd guess that it contains an oil or additive (such as a retarder or a brush conditioner) that is causing the paint to bead on the surface. Try using straight odorless mineral spirits.

If you use a brush conditioner on your brushes (a good idea) you should rinse them thoroughly in solvent (mineral spirits for oil brushes, soap and water for acrylic brushes) before use. That could also cause the problem. 

i never had any luck applying washes over futured vehicles either so like already said i use it for decals both before i set a decal and then after to seal it then i use testors dullcote then apply my washes. 

It all depends on what you are after to produce. In regards to the clouding, that happens when the Future coat hasn't cured all the way and is reacting to the pooled liquid on it's surface. Usually means you've applied too much...but when it dries, the clouding should clear up. I follow a similar pattern as the others have mentioned in terms of Future, decals, Future. I do apply washes over Future before laying down a flat coat but only because I use enamel based washes and they don't play nice with lacquer based Dullcoat. As you've discovered, the variable factors of type of wash, type of thinner/spirits, type of paint, etc. all play a role in how it will behave on a gloss vs. a flat surface. A gloss surface is ideal for pin washes because it won't bloom and will use capillary action effectively. A flat or matte surface provides "tooth" and encourages the wash to spread or bloom over a wider area and will also produce tide marks depending.

Thanks to all for your responses.  The only advice I ever get is from these forums...I swear I think I'm the only modeler within a 200 mile radius, and judging from the lack of hobby shops in my area, I must be right!

Bill, I have learned quite a bit from your build logs.  Could you tell me exactly what you use in your pin washes that you use over Future; name brands and such?    And yes, when I applied the pin wash to the underside of the hull with no Future coat, it wicked well, but it "blossomed" just like you said. 

Frustration Level: Freakin' High!

Circuitrider wrote:

Bill, I have learned quite a bit from your build logs.  Could you tell me exactly what you use in your pin washes that you use over Future; name brands and such?    And yes, when I applied the pin wash to the underside of the hull with no Future coat, it wicked well, but it "blossomed" just like you said.  Frustration Level: Freakin' High!

I use Testor's Model Master enamels, usually Burnt Umber, as the base paint for a pin wash and thin it down to a 90/10 thinner/paint ratio using Model Master Airbrush Thinner. Here's an example of what I mean...in this case this is a Rust wash, but you can see the paint/thinner combination pretty well. I use a small brush, a 10/0 or 20/0 usually, and apply it in small amounts. For an overall wash I'll use a larger 0 or 1 round sable brush and apply in broad patches.

 

 

Since we are on the subject of future, is it better to brush it on or spray?

ssnord1944 wrote:

Since we are on the subject of future, is it better to brush it on or spray?

Check out Swanny's the Complete Future, has everything there is to know about Future.

Swanny's guide is great, definitely recommend taking the time to read through it, you won't be disappointed. Since Future is "self-levelling" I usually will apply it by AB only as a mist coat from a good distance away from the model, usually 12" or more distant. This stuff is extremely durable, it's designed to withstand foot traffic on floors after all, so you don't need a deep/thick coat for it to work as intended on a model surface.

wbill76 wrote:

Since Future is "self-levelling" I usually will apply it by AB only as a mist coat from a good distance away from the model, usually 12" or more distant.

Doesn't spraying from such a distance only give you a grainy coat, similar to the tooth on a flat finish, or does the self-leveling property take care of this?  I AB'ed the coat on my Sherman, but I layed down a thick, glossy coat.  Could this have been part of my original problem?

 

Future is a good window and part cleaner but if you don't like the result just dip the piece in windex, the futur will come off.

Circuitrider wrote:

Doesn't spraying from such a distance only give you a grainy coat, similar to the tooth on a flat finish, or does the self-leveling property take care of this?  I AB'ed the coat on my Sherman, but I layed down a thick, glossy coat.  Could this have been part of my original problem?

Shouldn't, I spray through a wide bore nozzle at a high pressure (25-30 psi), and it's not necessary to lay down a thick coat to get the protective effect. You want just enough to make it look "wet" but not thick. This has the added advantage of drying fairly quickly as well. An extra thick coat would definitely make it hard for you to control the wash.

Thanks for the help Bill, and everyone else too! I'm going to reshoot the model tonight, and let it cure for a couple of days before trying the Future again. This is my first armor model and I hope to have some decent pics soon!

Future is a water base acrylic, and people have reported me several problems with washes, decal solutions...etc ( as was said in this topic).

I strongly recommend Gunze clear varnish, is water based but you will be able to apply in any condition, the only exception is not to apply lacquer on. Gunze varnish is provided in spray cans, but you can take out easily.

Mario Covalski
Editor Modeler Site
http://www.modelersite.com/

O.K.  Here's the test-Future spraying on part of an M10.  As you can see in the first and second pic, the Future appeared to have a "tooth". This leveled out a great deal with time, but it still appears more satin than glossy. I'm thinking this is good because the glossy finish repelled my first wash attempt.  I sprayed the Future with a wide-flow nozzle on my Aztek airbrush with 28lbs. of pressure, from about 12 inches. I made about 6 passes; 3 horizontally and 3 vertically.  Obviously, I masked half of the part in order to test some other weathering techniques.  The good news is that my pin wash worked great.

In the third pic you can see the difference between a pin wash on a flat finish and a finish sealed with Future.  On the left, you can see how a flat finish "blossoms" while, on the right, the wash on the Future pretty much stays put.  The wash was Winsor & Newton Artists Oils Burnt Umber thinned greatly with Winsor & Newton Sansodor Turpenoid.

Hope this helps others who have the same problem with Future!

I'm with Bgrigg and Ross for both of their arguments:

If Future clouds up, it is because it hasn't cured yet...and I am totally not willing to wait for 7 days for my favorite part of model building...decals.  If you get clouds on your paint, apply another coat of future over them.  Air is getting trapped beneath a layer of future.

As for Windsor Newton Oils...I've had no problem, but I use mineral spirits as my thinner.

Oh...and with future...3-5 light coats will get you what you want.  Do not put it on too thick or you will drip the finish.

Grant

Looks like it worked out well for you! Typically I'll apply the decals and seal those with a second coat before applying washes or pin-washes, then once all is done, apply a rattlecan coat of MM Lusterless dullcoat and it finishes dead-flat. This removes the satin look of the Future and blends everything together in a unified finish pretty nicely.

wbill76 wrote:

Looks like it worked out well for you!

It did, indeed!  I really appreciate the help from everyone, esp. Bill.  I'll post pics of the finished Sherman just as soon as work allows me to finish it!  Tomorrow's an off day, but I'll spend it making the 220 mile round-trip pilgrimage to the closest hobby shop with my "grocery list".  I feel like Grizzly Adams coming down from the mountains headed the the general store to lay in supplies for the summer.   Somebody PLEASE open a decent hobby shop in southeast Alabama!