The Tao of Correcting Kit Inaccuracies

Thought I would chime in with one of my favorite posts on any forum concerning accuracy of a model. This is off the Missing-Lynx forum from a discussion of German paint colors.



"Gentlemen: Thoughts on Dunkelgelb from the advice column of a now sadly defunct newsletter.

Dear Kudo King,

I have spent an enormous amount of time researching German paints specs for my models. Recently I discovered a heretofore unknown shade of Dunkelgelb.

Early in the morning (around 8:34 am.) on June 14, 1943, an employee of the Reich Paint Factory, one Fritz von Krylon, after a hard evening of fraulines, bratwurst, and beer, paid the piper and performed the technicolor sieg heil into a drum of dunkel gelb paint. This additive unknowingly affected the color.

The drum was shipped to The Reichs Sprayun der Painten onder Panzerun, where it was applied to 6 1/2 Stug lll ausf G, one of which was commanded by a left handed Feldwebel named Karl.

This vehicle was later photographed outside the Russian village of Ineedtogetalifski, where it is parked next to a field of rutabaggas, after a shower, about 3 in the afternoon. This vehicle is instantly recognizable due to its unusual coloring that I will call Rolfen-dunkelgelb.

My question is, would it be wastefull and expensive to replicate this color, and do you have any hints to help me remember my childrens names? I think one of them is Bob or Bill or something.

Signed Paul E. Scale


Dear Paul

I commend you for the outstanding research, there is no limit to the price one must be willing to pay for accuracy. As for the kids names, have them legaly changed top something easily remembered, like Sprue, or Hatch.

Kudo King"

this was posted by Donald Puckett on March 6 2003, 11:06 PM

I still get a laugh out of it

nfafan,
you could allways steal the boogies out of an Academy, because I'm looking at my M10 and it has what I think your looking for.

BTW, I did some research on the 100th last night and found out about PFC John Flusher,( the crossed plunger recipiant.) It seem that one morning after a breakfast of chipped beef on toast was served the entire Battalion was attacked with the worst case of the GI trots ever to be seen during the war. PFC Flusher was also hit hard by the trots, but he though only of his fellow soldiers. Ignoring the condition of his body and trousers PFC Flusher made many trips through out the day to keep his fellow soldiers resupplied with fresh paper. When called apon PFC Flusher did not hesitate to rush forth with plunger in hand to battle through any build-ups that may have developed. As the hours dragged on and the supplies ran low PFC John Flusher in his weaken state was able to find the only bush within 100 miles and return with all of its leaves and with that the Battalion was releaved.

Now what ever became of John Flusher after that I don't know.

dont let other people get ya down buddy. build it as YOU like it, cause that is the one person who matters most :D

happy building

Anal Modeling Syndrome Attention Deficit Disorder....

I feel for you, I suffer from it on occasion. I have my Tamiya Early Shermie sitting unfinished until I get the "correct" horiz bogies vs. the upswept bogies that came with the kit..

We all suffer from it from time to time - it explains why we have dozens of started or unbuilt kits because we haven't accumulated every bit of doc or piece needed to do the job "right".

But those bogies are all I'm waiting on, beyond that - its OOTB.

Meanwhile, I'm building one of the much-maligned Lee T34/85s and the even worse - Lindberg T80. Both OOTB - no resin, PE, turned bbl, nuthin. Just putty and tissue tarps and other homemade bits to finish them in a realistic manner.
Having fun too; the challenge of applying old fashioned construction and finishing skills to a pound puppy to create a nice finished product - regardless of accuracy - is enough for me.

Larry you seem to know quite alot about the 100th. Now I would like to know what they did when a soldier had a personal emergency, I only ask because while reading your last post I wet myself.

Larry good luck on your build. I will be watching for progress pictures.
mark956

Dwight, that's the one photo of the 100th that is known to exist. It's like that photo of the paratroopers riding the King Tiger -- you see it all the time.

Behind that truck, you can see one of the unit's LID-35's -- the latrine insertion devices. If you can look carefully, you can see the sprocket wheels turn counterclockwise, which distinguishes it from the ones we sent to the Chinese and Australians, which tuen clockwise.

I've got one of the 35's built up on my shelf, with lots of realistic weathering.

Even though exactly three zillion, eighteen billion, four hundred and ninety million and six of them were made in World War Two, you can only get it as an expensive resin kit, which is inaccurate and needs aftermarket pieces to "spruce it up." Thank you, Tank Workshop, for providing the correct M321A air freshener.

OTOH, the Germans only built three of these things, but each one is nonetheless lovingly reproduced by our friends at Tamiya, even the experimental secret-weapon-type ones. Hitler is said to have been convinced that this technology in particular would win him the war.

QUOTE: i once posted a picture of a Dragon T26 pershing and one of the tracks were on backwards

Does that mean that it only drove in circles?

Good Luck... and always remember to enjoy your model

I got interested in this 100th Armored Toilet Scrubbing Battalion and tried to do some research on it on the web. It is very unfortunate really that there is almost no information about these unsung heroes of the war in Tunisia.

I looked over some websites about Tunisia but couldn't find anything. There is one picture however that caught my attention because of the markings on the truck.

Could it be?

I for one would never say anything about a Sherman track being on backwards .... seen a couple of pictures of the real thing that way.

i think its worth to do a model like Shermie did with his cival war shermans and the tiger Tiger tank once in a while
lol i once posted a picture of a Dragon T26 pershing and one of the tracks were on backwards, no one said anything about it either
but it is good to put the fun back into models
the Dragon tracks are ok

If you'll pardon the interuption. I believe that some people take inaccuracies too serious. That's not meant to offend anyone in this forum. To each his own. But when the fun of building is sacrificed for authenticity overkill, to me, the enjoyment level is killed. I build because: 1. I enjoy it. 2. I like to recreate historical weapons of war 3. It's satisfying to finish something I started.

Right now I'm sloughing through washes on my Panzer III. Before this forum was created, I would have finished it by now. However, after reading the many posts, I decided to take my models to a new level. Unfortunately, learning new things can be a struggle, thus taking some of the fun out of it. I realize I need to do it, to make them look more accurate in my mind. I will iron this problem out. I also realize I'll be the only one to tell if its right or wrong(assuming I don't post any pictures). So why lose sleep over accurizing it?
Some people like a challenge, more power to them. For me, I have to do what is right for me. If I posted something old, most would politely say its a nice clean build, some would tell me to dirty it up, still others would say the tracks might be the wrong color. I can accept that, but Erock said it well, "The beauty in building models is the freedom of expression. Some like to go all out, some like to build OOB." He also added "Its all good in his opinion".

Accurizing kits is fine and dandy, but not at the expense of taking the fun out of building. Just my humble opinion.

"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."-R.E.Lee

RAF,
i believe the most decorated member wore the 'crossed plungers with crumpled TP cluster'
and a few questionable stains!! [:0]
ed

LMAO!

You have to tell me more about the 100th. Like were there any Medal of Honor winners?

Oh boy, isn't funny how these threads can digress.

Getting back to the main topic.... the 100th Armored Toilet Scrubbing Battalion
Question: How can a toilet be scrubbed in the Tunisia desert ? Answer: Easy, it is sandblasted

Therefore were the sandbags, often seen attached to the hulls of Shermans in the latter stages of WW2, really a symbol of respect for the gallant boys of the 100th?

And if the 100th and the 15 Sheisshaus-wascher abt. were ever to face off, would it be known as mudslinging or a sfight?LOL

Their unit crest said "No Dootie too Tough".

ROFLMAO

perfect Larry ..... simply perfect

QUOTE: Originally posted by Poniatowski Now, about this toilet scrubbing unit. I believe that they would've camo painted the handles. there is a site at www.100thtoilet.com if you want to take a peek.

Unfortunately, there are no books on this under-examined unit, but of course there are seventeen excellent books on their German counterparts, 15 Sheisshaus-wascher abt. also known as "Hitler's Krampfgruppe."

The Hundred's motto was "We're Uniquely Qualified to Stick it to Hitler Where it Hurts!" They used the blue-drab ID numbers on their vehicles.

No, OF COURSE the site doesn't exist! But I'm still interested in learning more about this unit! I was in the 318th mess kit repair for a time. IT was fun.

Ron.

Now, about this toilet scrubbing unit. I believe that they would've camo painted the handles. there is a site at www.100thtoilet.com if you want to take a peek.

Ron.

If you stick to correct inaccuracies that much you will lose your sanity...Plain and simple...lol

The first photo in Squadron's "Sherman in Action" is a battalion shot in Italy in April 1945 and using their caption they say "there is an ancient early production M4" mixed in with the group. This thread got me to looking more closely and it's really amazing, particullary with Shermans, the mix of equipment and parts and stowage etc. As far as building, well I build them for my own enjoyment, the guy that wins in our local shows usually has his track on backwards. Go figure.

QUOTE: Originally posted by shermanfreak That's the spirit Larry !!!! I look forward to the pics.

Don't speak so soon!

I finally decided to model the thing on a bunch of tanks that were taken as prizes by the Germans after Kasserine, apparently shown in photos in a new book about the 10th Panzer Division. These tanks feature:

Direct vision port hull
The wee 75mm with skinny M34 mantlet
three-part welded nose
M3 suspension
Rubber block treads, IIRC

I may not bother adding the friuli T54e1 treads I bought.

(Warning: the Friuli treads described simply as Sherman treads are these kinds of treads.)

I think they were used in NA (people with the 10th Pz book tell me they are illustrated on captured Shermans), but I wonder if I can get the treads to look "live" as Sherman treads were. So maybe I will just scrounge some rubber-block tread lengths (not individual link) from a kit somewhere out there. Any suggestions? Particularly one I can give the T54E1 treads to? Waste not want not! Maybe I'll add those things to the basic M4A3 late war tank with 75mm gun -- to show that two tanks that are superficially identical can actually look quite different.

Yes, it's cost me a fortune, but now I am obsessed, so may actually build the darned thing! Which, as Martha Stewart would say, is a good thing.

That's the spirit Larry !!!!

I look forward to the pics.

Thanks for all the comments. I'llbuild this sucker up and send her up the flagpole to see if anyone salutes. The only problem, as usual, will be photographing it. I have a little digital camera but am no expert photographer. Point and shoot, everything set on automatic! "What's this button for? Whoops!"

Great point J-Hulk,

With all the variations on the sherman - it is very tough to say what did and didn't exist. Look at all the recovered german armor that was made into completely different tanks.

I think there is a sherman attachmnet for toilet scrubbing as well ....but it's only found on the M4A3 with the .............................and the.....................with the 75mm gun

Here's something to remember, too: it is scientifically impossible to prove that something does not exist.
Sure, there might be problems with anachronistic equipment showing up in the wrong time, maybe, but who can say with absolute certainty that the 100th Armored Toilet Scrubbing Battalion fighting in Tunisia didn't use the ocassional oak-handled plunger, instead of the standard pine-handled version?

Lots of good comments here. I like the 'challenge my collection against yours' and the 'it's already built, give the guy a pat on the back' attitudes. I usually ask, "When's the last time YOU drove a Sherman??" That shuts 'em up good too.
That's a nice Sherman, Caveman! LIKE IT LOTS!
Anyhoo, Larry, took a look at that photo that was stuck in my mind last night... I looked through Hunnicutt's Sherman book. All M4A1's with early mantlets that I could find photo references of in North Africa. Pg 178 Early bogies, MID PRODUCTION nose, Vision Slots. Pg 179 Late V V SS suspension, early nose (three piece bolted), No vision slots. Pg 180 Late V VSS, Early nose, one with and one without vision slots.... AND some unloading from an LST on pg 182 that have lighter painted turret tops (yellow????).
So, like Sherm said, these vehicle were right on the cusp of early and late Vertical Vollute Sprung Suspension and vision slots (now watch somebody will criticize the return skids atop the bogie assemblies... I couldn't pick them out myself, but I'd bet on the early arched type... just a GUESS though!).
Of course, you could always set the M4 in ETO or Italy! LOTS of variations there. OR, the DML M4A1 I believe came with both types of main gun mount.. That one would work too! Is it OOP? If so, evilbay... neeyah-haa-ha ha ha!

Ron.