Why aren't civil aircraft interesting.

there was at least one model of that with a smooth cowl.

Don Stauffer

Oh, super!  A friend had given me a kit of that- turns out the cowl was missing.  I don't mind scratching a radial cowl without the bumps, but doing all those bumps would have been a pain!  I'll sure pick up that kit as soon as it is available!

Don, could you make a mold of a bump (were they for the rocker arms?) out of putty, then use the heat-and-smash method to make a bunch of them?

Oh, super!  A friend had given me a kit of that- turns out the cowl was missing.  I don't mind scratching a radial cowl without the bumps, but doing all those bumps would have been a pain!  I'll sure pick up that kit as soon as it is available!

Just saw on another forum that Round2 is reissuing the 1/48 Stinson Reliant in March : )

About 20 years ago I built Revell's two 1:48 offerings for Reno Racers ('Miss America' P-51D and 'Miss Behavin' T-6). Gave them away though. I have a partially built Testors 1:48 Gee Bee racer with the decals for one Jimmy Doolittle broke records with in the 30s.  

For racers, Revell had the P-51 "Miss America" in their catalog, pre-merger.  As I recall, that was their only P-51D in 1/32.

CodyJ

Modelcrazy-  Don's right Williams Bros are the majority.  Here are a few...

I have the Williams Bros' Boeing Model 247 in my stash, along with the old Monogram Ford Tri-motor.  I have some ideas for how I'd like to finish them, but I'm not ready to break them out yet.  I'm thinking of markings for a fictitious Pennsylvania airline in the Thirties.

I just may have to convert my own.

Like my avatar, it is the cowling of the "Rare Bear" a slightly modified Bearcat. While I cam find a 1/72 of the "Bear" the paint scheme would be a challenge.  "Strega",  "Precious Metal" or "Vooodoo" would be a whole other story.

There are a lot of vacu form kits in the U.K. ,but one needs to hunt for them. Many times a modeler would need to modify existing kits to make air racers. Airshow models is a good reference.

Thanks Cody. Does anybody have any modern (racing today) Reno Racers?

Modelcrazy-  Don's right Williams Bros are the majority.  Here are a few...

Also Accurate Miniatures made/makes a P51 Air Racer and Airfix has a couple Comets (Red and Green Version)

Airfix Comet

Williams Bros

It's a matter of taste.  I wouldn't have titled this thread, "Why Aren't Civil Aircraft Interesting", specifically because it's a matter of taste, and that title makes a declarative statement.  I would have titled it something like, "Why Don't More Modelers Build Civilian Aircraft" Well said Baron :-)

It's a matter of taste.  I wouldn't have titled this thread, "Why Aren't Civil Aircraft Interesting", specifically because it's a matter of taste, and that title makes a declarative statement.  I would have titled it something like, "Why Don't More Modelers Build Civilian Aircraft"

CodyJ

I suppose in the car world your question might read "why don't people find taxis/busses interesting?".  Not to say civie aircraft are as boring as busses but you get the idea.  The more personality a vehicle has the more it gets noticed.  The more you see something the less appealing it can become.

I have a little collection of Air Racers.  I love those due to their liveries and major style they posses. Those are the only civilian stuff I have as far as aircraft.

Hey, I'm building the London Double Decker kit from Revell.

And, there are still quite a few air racers around.  In additon to those fighter planes used in post war racing, there are the Lindberg 1:48 series of racing planes, quite a few from Williams brothers, and at least one European kit- forget the mfg but it is the Machi-Castoldi (or however you spell it) Sneider Cup racer (floatplane).

Cody, where did you get those racers?

I try to get to Reno every couple of years (I used to be hardcore about it) and would really enjoy a few racers in my stash. Are they todays racers or older ones like the BeeGee and Schneider Cup?

I build mostly auto and can see why you may suggest that glossy paint jobs tend to be something you don't look forward to.  Tends to be a time consumer and takes practice to master.

I suppose in the car world your question might read "why don't people find taxis/busses interesting?".  Not to say civie aircraft are as boring as busses but you get the idea.  The more personality a vehicle has the more it gets noticed.  The more you see something the less appealing it can become.

I have a little collection of Air Racers.  I love those due to their liveries and major style they posses. Those are the only civilian stuff I have as far as aircraft.

Ya I was thinking the standard gloss white airliner with the only variation being the airline name and logo. The military equivalent would be the all too common variations of grey paint with low vis markings, so I guess I'm countering my own conclusion with that one.

As an aerospace engineer I can tell you a lot of the common solutions for 'computer optimized' design comes out of how restricted the shape is due to other considerations. It has been well known for decades that jet powered flying wings (YB-49, B-2) are more aerodynamically efficient than tubes with wings, tails, and low slug engines that has been the design paradigm for airliners. It boils down to whether the improvements in range and fuel burn offset the negatives of using a new design and how much risk a company is willing to take on.

I'd still advocate that there's a lot more ways to get the bark off the tree when it comes to military aircraft. There's lots of aircraft that have the similar missions but the design is vastly different (A-10 vs Su-25, F-22 vs Eurofighter, F-18 vs Rafael, F-16 vs MiG-29 vs Mirage 2000). I think a lot of fundamental aircraft design hinges on a 'that's they way we always done it' arguments. The French seem to love pure delta wing designs where the US designers largely gave up on them in the 60s.

In the end I can only know what draws my interest but the market does respond (even if slowly) to what modelers want. I just checked Sprue Brothers page for helicopters (an area where similar machines can have both civilian and military markings) 55 for sale where 54 are military designs/markings and 1 is civilian. Assuming that's a good barometer for the market has a whole it does show there is more interest in military aircraft.

Boy, I would argue the color variation thing.  Lots of variation in civil aircraft, which is not limited to airliners, but includes private recreational aircraft, aerobatic craft, racing planes (lots of wild color liverys there), business planes, government non-military.

As far as shapes, I think we are seeing that in both military and civil.  It is the result of computer design.  Now that we optimize so much on computers, we see less art and more science.  As long as the computer programs are good, if you design a plane for a given job, optimized for the properties of that job, the answer will come out the same no matter what country or what company is doing the design. I have noticed a real convergence of design lately in air superiority fighters from everywhere in the world!  Same thing in airliners, heavy cargo, etc.  Laws of aerodynamics do not respect national borders :-(

Along with everything else already mentioned, military aircraft have much more shape and color variety. The basic shape configuration of airliners hasn't changed substantially for 55 years other that variations on engine placement. This is one of those situations where I get the novice input of my wife. She can easily identify an F-16 by shape alone but she couldn't differentiate a 737 form a A320 or or a 707 from a DC-8. Look at heavy bombers, no two look remotely alike (other than the B-1 and the Tu-160). I will spend a great deal of time looking at the aircraft in a display case full of various military aircraft. Fill that same display case with airliners and after a minute I'm looking at the how the display case is designed and constructed.

Kenmore Air harbor has kits if you call their parts department. Kenmore Air is the leader in DH-2 refurbishment. Kenmore Washington is at a far end of lake Washington. Google them! I'll dig my model kit out and photograph it for you.... Ashivlle Diecast may have them as Well

Beaver (Dhc2) is one plane that is available in 1/72, 1/48, and 1/24. some are out of production but still available if you look.

Don, funny you mention it, but I just received my Shell Welder kit this week. And I have civilian ship kits waiting in the wings to keep me going for years: the Revell oil tanker 'Glasgow'; 1/700 Pit Road kit of the Liberty Ship Bootes, 1/700 kit of the Hikawa Maru as a cruise liner; the Revell Tug Boat; the Hasegawa kit of the Antarctic vessel Soya, and the Revell kit of the Lightship South Goodwin.

As for civilian aircraft, I have a 1/144 scale DC3 and a 1/144 DC4 waiting patiently for the right decals; a Lockheed Electra 10; a 1/48 Testors kit of the Ryan PT trainer; the old Monogram kit of the Ford Tri-Motor (including the sled dog team, all of which will be done in an Antarctic diorama). And I'm planning on looking for a kit of the Bristol Britannia next, but haven't started on that one yet.

So, I say that if someone thinks all these models aren't "interesting" that says a lot more about the person with the opinion that it ever will say about these great models.

I forgot to mention about the civil ships.  Yeah, I moan about that every time I get in a group with other ship modelers. I love to model working boats, and pick up just about every kit I can of that type.  Remember the Shell Welder kit?  That was one I could make into a rust bucket!  I have a Lindberg trawler that I will build eventually and intend to make it even more dilapidated than the Shell tanker!  I do build military ships too, but am very partial to the civil ones.  BTW, if you haven't looked at it yet, the Revell (G) Container Ship Columbo Express is a beautiful kit.  I made my own decals for a bunch of containers so not all the containers have the same livery.  Fun kit to build!

I've always had a hankering for a Beaver.

roony

It's not just civilian aircraft.  How many civilian ship models are there compared to warship models?  Or civilian sci-fi craft compared to X-Wings or Enterprises?  The saving grace of automobiles to tanks, is that we can build the car we'd like to own, some day.

But there aren't really any military aircraft I would want to own and fly, while I often find and build a kit like a Lear, or a light twin, that I really would like to own.  I suppose there are a bunch of folks who would like to own and fly an F-15, but personally I'd settle for a Lear or Citation or one of the newer, even smaller private jets.  Heck, I'll even settle for a Grumman Tiger :-)  That is, the single engined lightplane, not the old Navy fighter.

The originals might be more fashionable if made from a  iron oxide ore.........

( I seem to recall somebody around here used to say : " needs more rust "  ) 

................with the recent proliferation and popularity of weathering pigments, I can't help wonder if mothballed aircraft might be a future model subset.

Well, as a fan of both civilian ships and planes, I can only say I like hard-working, socially useful machinery, and I also love stories about what the unsung heroes were doing while the show ponies were out there lapping up the glory. But that's just me. And, quite frankly, I don't mind being in the minority at any time. God bless the unsung heroes.

However, it is a shame that the market for models of the relatively unfashionable non-military planes and ships is relatively poor, but even then I do find there's some pleasure in tracking down rare and unusual civilian model plane or ship kits, then building them.

I have accumulated so many of these unfashionable kits, that if I stopped buying them right now, in 2014, I'd still be busy building until then end of 2016 at least.

I've always liked the looks of sleek twin props like the Bonanza, Duke, 310, 340, King Air and the like.  I would definitely like to build some of those.  I also would build some general aviation subjects like the 172, Cub, and others.  Aerobatic planes would be cool too, like the Pitts Special and Christian Eagle, Extra 300.  Lears and other biz gets are neat.  Finally, the Reno air racers would make great modelling subjects.  I for one would welcome the change of pace to do these types of aircraft.  And if you don't think a Beech Duke is cool you might want to revisit your definition of cool.  BTW, when I was 10 or so (40 years ago!) a cousin of mine gave me a built Cessna 340 in maybe 1/48.  I'd love to find one of those.  I played with that one and repainted it a couple times (not very well).

It's not just civilian aircraft.  How many civilian ship models are there compared to warship models?  Or civilian sci-fi craft compared to X-Wings or Enterprises?  The saving grace of automobiles to tanks, is that we can build the car we'd like to own, some day.

I picked up a Widgeon kit recently at a swap meet.  I have seen Widgeons every color under the sun.  Blue seems to be a popular Widgeon color.  In fact, for private aircraft, once they are old enough to need a repaint, every owner was free to use any color they wanted.  And, for the  planes that were factory doped, dope/fabric was not particularly long lasting, so they needed repainting frequently, and period recovering, in the days before Ceconite and modern synthetics. So a walk along the ramp and tiedown areas at any pea-patch airport will show a myriad of color.