New to Building Model ships. Intoducing myself, and I have a few questions!

Hi;

   Believe it or not, Hobby Lobby has a very nice pair of flush cutters in their Jewelry section. They aren't expensive, but as long as you keep the cuts to the joins between the sprue and the part they are great. I modified the tips of mine, by grinding them quite thin from the top so that I could get in tight spaces. Now that means doing it carefully and DON'T let the Cutters get hot!

Tanker-Builder

Hi;

   Believe it or not, Hobby Lobby has a very nice pair of flush cutters in their Jewelry section. They aren't expensive, but as long as you keep the cuts to the joins between the sprue and the part they are great. I modified the tips of mine, by grinding them quite thin from the top so that I could get in tight spaces. Now that means doing it carefully and DON'T let the Cutters get hot!

 

Those were the ones I use.  Have had it for over a year and love it.  And it was about a third of the price I have seen other good cutters go for. 

I remember that stuff.  Tried it about fifty years ago, worked okay but I have changed to other washes easier to find.

Tanker-Builder

Are you insuating that we are ancient?

Was more of a blatant assertion

wasn't affected by the alchohol used to thin the ink. The ink was the same used by Architects back then!

Yeah, I had Fine and Extra Fine India ink in Black, Blue-Black, and even Sepia (which Bill may remember, as sepia diazio used to be common in architecture).

Finding a clear coat that didn't dissolve the alcohol thinning the india ink was an issue. 

Back in the day, most "clear" coats were lacquer-based, so they either used alcohol as a solvent or as a carrier.

BBorBust

So you are saying that I should paint the deck, when clear coat it, and then add my wash on top of it?

Well, back i nthe 80s building 1/700 Rodney in pre-war guise, I used Humbrol Unbleached linen as the base.  Then, applied the washes to get the color where I wanted it, and the grain detail just to obvious.  There was some blending of the ocher and umber--on purpose.  That then sat a week to fully cure (deck was not assembled to hull).

It got a coat of clear flat lacquer to seal it all in.  Which also made it easier to pick out the details on deck, as uh-ohs wiped up while still wet.

Now, it was a bit of a pain to have to use CA glue to get the superstructure to stick to the deck, but, I installed it as a whole sub-assembly, painted up during assembly.

Had photo-etch exisited back then, I probably would have used that, too.

So i have probably done around 6 hours of work to the QE over the last 3 days. She is coming along. And I find myself making small little errors, but overall pretty happy with how she is turning out thus far. Man this kit is detailed! Or maybe it's not? I dont know.... But the only comparison I have to it is the Lindberg Hood I did a couple weeks ago. This thing has been fun to build so far.

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

I painted the deck tan and went with a black wash to make it look aged a little bit. Here are some comparison pictures...

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Here is a picture of the chains going to the acnhors. I have since added a black wash to these and finished painting all of the details surrounding the area. I will take more pics and upload soon.

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

Here is the section of superstructure i am working on. Hopefully finish up this section in the next couple of days.

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

BBorBust

Here is a picture of the chains going to the acnhors. I have since added a black wash to these and finished painting all of the details surrounding the area. I will take more pics and upload soon.

 

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

 

Here is the section of superstructure i am working on. Hopefully finish up this section in the next couple of days.

 

Untitled by Matthew Brumage, on Flickr

 

 

You need to invest in some emory board/nail files to clean up your joints before gluing.

Looking at the picture of the bow.   There is a big old honkin' seam running down the bow.   Use your emory boards to clean up the join pieces so that when glue is applied the seam blends and disappears.    Easier to do it right the first time than to try to fix it later with some putty.   Two problems with the deck seam; first the deck isn't flush with the hull and second the big gap at the bow.   Test fit the deck first.   Does it stand too proud?   Sand the underside of the deck to correct the height.   Fill the gap with some shim plastic or stretched sprue.  Sand to achieve correct fit.  Test fit before gluing.

Your superstructure piece picture.   Big gap again.   Is there a piece of sprue injection stub in the way causing the poor fit?  Clean up your joints.   There are a pair of miters which when glued should make a tight 90 degree corner.

Overall the deck paint & wash looks cloudy & muddy.  Flat paint is made by adding flattening agent inclusions.   These work to make the surface rough, thus difracting the light.   The trouble is that washes gather among the inclusions making the cloudy appearance.   Before adding a wash you really need to apply a gloss coat.   This fills in around the inclusions so the puddling and cloudiness is minimized.   Ideally your wash should settle into the area between the deck boards to highlight their individual nature.

Its a process, not a race.

Thank you for the tips. This is my first actual model ship i have done. Like mentioned I noticed that I have made some mistakes along the way. i have been sanding down the left over sprue on pieces after removing them. i noticed the gap in the superstructure and I tried to correct it and the paint had dried. From the pictures, this piece will be covered by other parts on the model. Not that it makes it better, but being my first time I will learn from my mistakes.

And i dont understand the gap in the bow. When i test fit the deck to the hull, it fit flush. But when putting everything together (I put the rear deck on first) the gap appeared. What material should I use to fill that in?

As far as the painting and washing of the deck itself.... Well it was my first time ever using a wash. I was going to just leave the tan alone and leave it like that. But I didnt like the look, so i decided to try a wash. I like how it looks overall, but I agree it does kind of look muddy.

This model is my first go at painting, washing, and pretty much everything. My next one (hopefully the King George V) i will strive to correct the problems I created in this one.

For example, would stretching and fitting a piece of sprue be easier than using a plastic putty for the bow gap?

BBorBust

For example, would stretching and fitting a piece of sprue be easier than using a plastic putty for the bow gap?

 

CapnMac82

 

BBorBust

For example, would stretching and fitting a piece of sprue be easier than using a plastic putty for the bow gap?

 

 

 

It might be.  Depends on how close you can get the stretched sprue to the gap (and it's shape).

 

The white Tamyia putty is used by a lot of people, as the Perfect Plastic Putty.

 

In days of old, we were happy to get the Squadron Green, which could be a bit of an exercise to get right.  I know of folks who swear by glazing putty, but, I may have spent too much time swearing at glazig putty used in actuual windows to be an unbiased judge.

 

Thanks for the info.

I actually just order the Tamiya white putty...... and a couple more tamiya paints..... And the King George V.

Is it normal to get addicted to this hobby so quick? LOL

CapnMac82

 

 

BBorBust

For example, would stretching and fitting a piece of sprue be easier than using a plastic putty for the bow gap?

 

 

 

It might be.  Depends on how close you can get the stretched sprue to the gap (and it's shape).

 

The white Tamyia putty is used by a lot of people, as the Perfect Plastic Putty.

 

In days of old, we were happy to get the Squadron Green, which could be a bit of an exercise to get right.  I know of folks who swear by glazing putty, but, I may have spent too much time swearing at glazig putty used in actuual windows to be an unbiased judge.

 

Capt...the glazing putty others refer to is the auto body type.  Basically a super heavy bodied laquer primer..  The oil bodied window stuff of old is a disaster in waiting here.

CapnMac82

I know of folks who swear by glazing putty, but, I may have spent too much time swearing at glazig putty used in actuual windows to be an unbiased judge.

BB, let's be honest here. The model isn't going together well. I don't know if it's because you are rushing things before you get comfortable, or need more practice.

I'd encourage you to take the time to examine your work as you go. Taking photos and looking at them is an excellent way to do it.

I think you should strip your deck and start it over. I thought it looked pretty good with just the paint, but the washes just don't look good.

Honest criticism, if I've struck the wrong notes tell me so. 

Ed's comment echoes what I remember from a sign my Field Superintendent had over his desk. 

Morrison's Second Law of Modeling:

"There's never enough time to do it right, but somehow there's always enough time to do it over".

I know you can do better.

Bill

GMorrison

BB, let's be honest here. The model isn't going together well. I don't know if it's because you are rushing things before you get comfortable, or need more practice.

I'd encourage you to take the time to examine your work as you go. Taking photos and looking at them is an excellent way to do it.

I think you should strip your deck and start it over. I thought it looked pretty good with just the paint, but the washes just don't look good.

Honest criticism, if I've struck the wrong notes tell me so. 

Ed's comment echoes what I remember from a sign my Field Superintendent had over his desk. 

Morrison's Second Law of Modeling:

"There's never enough time to do it right, but somehow there's always enough time to do it over".

I know you can do better.

 

Bill

 

All criticism is welcome and appreciated. Cant hurt my feelings. And you know, I was thinking about stripping the deck and redoing it in just the paint until I can get more practice with using washes.

This was literally my first time using a wash. And it was store bought. Testors Createfx black wood wash. So maybe it is just the brand? However, I am sure it was me. I think where I went wrong was I just grabbed the wash and started using it. Before i knew it I was about done with the rear deck.

I will give it a strip, and redo it. I dont feel like I was rushing. But maybe I was. I will slow down and be more methodical and see if my results improve. Only way to learn is to make mistakes!

i also bought that white tamiya putty. I will correct the gaps and sand them down and paint them too. I know this thing will still end up turning out great.

I appreciate all of the feedback and help you guys have given me.

I do have a question though, say I dont bother with the wash on the decking again, would adding a little bit of brown paint to the tan and mixing it together give me a better darker look? The reason i didnt like the tan I used is that I thought it was too light.

Serve the man a grog. 

A drop of black.

We used to have an Officer's Mess in this forum and I nominate BB to join us as senior Deck Detail Chief.

Holystones on deck, rig the lifelines and we have a serious ship modeler aboard.

(Don't mistake me for anyone who gets piped on).

Respectfully, the crew of the QE look for a proper inspection and review of their ship to get her right.

One thing noticeable on your paint and stain work is that there are areas that resist your washes and stains. Follow your base color with a nice shiny clear and then go about adding the wash to pick the details.

My mix, applied over Future Acrykic floor finish, is 12/1 Turpenoid to black Indis Ink.

Matt, 

First off, welcome aboard. In answer to your question about getting addicted to the hobby and ships, the answer is a resounding yes. Just ask my wife about my stash! The way I look at buying models is the same as buying books. I intend to read and build every last one of them before I die. Heck, I’m going to live to about 200 + years at this rate.

I’m in agreement with Bill, the Catn’ and Ed. Slow down and think about each module as a kit in itself. That way, you spend time making the piece as good as possible and then you have a great model when it’s all put together.

If I can make a suggestion on your deck, especially British. Wooden decks on Naval vessels were scrubbed with holistones and washed with sea water. That along with the bleaching effects of the sun made the wood a grayish color. The late Professor Tilly would suggest A color called Aged Concrete for decks. It gives a good teak wood color and  I used to use that until it became harder to find.  But eventually I started to use Vallejo Model Colors Deck Tan 70986. To my eye, it I looks like a straight on aged deck color. 

The owner of the LHS near me, recommended using artist water colors for washes if you’re new to them. The ones in a tin container with little blocks of color in them. You lay down your wash, wait about 5 to 10 minutes and then carefully wipe with a damp paper towel or old cotton t-shirt. This will leave the wash color in the seams where you want it and not on top of the planks.

Personally, I use Artist Oil paints for my weathering but that’s a whole different subject. 

As everyone has said, make sure you lay down a Gloss clear coat before washes or weathering! Just don’t make the mistakes I just did on my PT Boat. You can find the tread here in the ships forum.

Almost lastly, I use Perfect Plastic Putty now. I love it because you can fill your seams, let it dry a bit and then use a Q-Tip with water and rub the excess away. I have not had to file and lose detail.

Lastly, have fun.

Steve

GMorrison

Serve the man a grog. 

A drop of black.

We used to have an Officer's Mess in this forum and I nominate BB to join us as senior Deck Detail Chief.

Holystones on deck, rig the lifelines and we have a serious ship modeler aboard.

(Don't mistake me for anyone who gets piped on).

Respectfully, the crew of the QE look for a proper inspection and review of their ship to get her right.

One thing noticeable on your paint and stain work is that there are areas that resist your washes and stains. Follow your base color with a nice shiny clear and then go about adding the wash to pick the details.

My mix, applied over Future Acrykic floor finish, is 12/1 Turpenoid to black Indis Ink.

 

 

I actually just bought Tamiya XF-86 Clear, and the Tamiya X-20A acrylic thinner. From the sounds of it, it is all adding up where I went wrong. One, the paint I used is Tamiya acrylic paint. I didnt put a clear coat on, and used the wash (which is enamel based) almost as a paint. Im going to repaint the deck with the tan deck paint I have, and once it is dry and cured, follow up with the tamiya clear coat cut with a 1:1 of the thinner. I am hoping this gives me the look I am after.

And when i said that you can't hurt my feelings, I mean it. I work in law enforcement, and am also a firefighter/swift water rescue tech. Cutting on each other and dealing with people is my business! lol.

On a more serious note, I take all criticism as being constructive here. You guys are obviously trying to help me become a better modeler. And for that I am thankful to have such resources that take their personal time to guide me in the right way.

Cheers!

That's good medicen BB, good advice. Take some time to plan each section. Some modlers like me and I suspect GM, will take days to research, study drawings, pictures, the timeframe of the ship I'm trying to portray since there was only one Queen Elizibeth she looked a specific way at what ever time you are building her for. She's not a clunky tank or one of the thousands of slim airplanes, she's one of a kind, never to be seen again, a city, a home for over one thousand souls to live, work and yes, sometimes die. A sailor has fond memories of their past ships, it's where they put in their blood sweat and tears. I was told, by another ship modeler of course, that a ship modler is the penical of scale modeling, the elete, because ships are long intense projects that most other modlers, who don't build ships, are in in awe of. If you've seen some of the ships, say on Pintrest, those took years to complete, every cut and fit was perfect.

Like GM said, you deserve a grog my friend,  hand in there, it'll come.

Thanks man. I knew this ship would be fun, and have quite the learning curve. Without you guys here and some youtube videos I would be completely lost!

I had about an hour before work today and started working on removing the paint and wash from the deck to redo it. Didnt get very far. But it will be a process that I expect to take me 1-2 weeks to complete.

I have ordered an abundance of stuff to help me on the route of achieving a build that I want. All kinds of stuff to help me along the way, help me do the job right, and do it well.

I have ordered the following:

-Numerous different tamiya paints

-2 different brush kits

-Tamiya clear and thinner

-Trumpeter sprue cutters

-2 tubes of testors plastic cement

-1 bottle of thin cement from squadron

-1 tube of tamiya white putty

Tamiya now has a lacquer range but I'll assume you bought the more common acrylic. The thing is, Tamiya acrylic is not the best for brush painting, esp for a beginner. It's rather tempermental and not a true 'acrylic' in the sense it is closer to lacquer and not entirely soluable in water. 

For brush painting, acrylics such as vallajo/lifecolor or game colors (from table top game stores) are much easier to use. 

If you bought enamels, what you need is a lot of patience (to paint, to dry, and waiting for paint to dry). 

Yeah I bought the acrylic Tamiya. I havent painted a bunch with it yet. But I have painted the hull and some decking and it has went on fine with a brush. But I dont have anything to compare it too either.

Well, that clears up some confusion on why anyone would use glazing putty.

For OP, I think where Bil (GMorrison) was going with the deck was towards a paler, more straw like color to reflect the RN habit of holystoning (in the days of the sailing RN, they used sandstone blocks about the size of Church Bibles, hence the term "holy stones" which were used to scrub the decks with seawater every morning but Sunday).

Tamiya's XF-57 Buff would not be a terrible place to start, especially if you can get a spray can, to get a nice, even coat.

Using a fine brush to steak some narrow (like width of scribed planking) streaks of XF-55 Deck Tan (no more than an inch or two long, an not too many, in fact, it ought to look like too few.  If those are too strong (I'm actually cunting on the Tamiya paint to be a bit thin here) brush over with lightened colors.  Less is very much more here.

I would drybrush the raised detail a very pale gray.  Then, a bit of graphite dusted in.  Or seall that all in and go with a very thin dark was, and then wipe nearly all of that away.

But that's just my 2¢ worth.

I'm not sure BB is quite at the point to concentrate on washes just yet. Other than the Lindberg Hood, this is his first ship kit. He probably needs to concentrate on seams, squareness and general construction before worring about weathering, washes and dot filtering. I built beautiful ships for 40 years before I ventured into washes, weathering and even all but the basic rigging.

To put it in Navy terms, he's a newley graduated boot.

Just my 

Hi;

 Number one - Use a sprue cutter with a flush cutting edge.

 Number Two - use a very sharp X-acto for trimming the spot lightly. Then use an emery or sanding stick to make sure it's smooth. Tread lightly here or you might get a divot!

B.B.;

      Hi there! I hope you won't think we are picking on you.Bill and I have built a few over the years and have gone throughall the growing pains you are facing as a first time ship modeler. I hope you don't mind a little cinstrictive counseling. First off,I have to wonder,On a Trumpeter ship how did you manage to get that seam at the Bow? Did you perchance squeeze the hull while it dried? Also your wash is way to dark. Now this all comes with time.

     The Gap in the bulkhead can be covered and dealt with. I always try to check before to much time has passed and if possible to re-arrange the parts. I had a bear of a time, first in a long time, assembling the Charles De-Gaulle Aircraft Carrier because of the lousy fit of the Island parts. It was a Heller Kit! I was somewhat surprised because I built their La-Suroit ( the Titanic finder) before it became that. It fit together like a Tamiya kit!

     You'll pick up on these things but be patient, the good stuff is ahead if you Don't Hurry!

I have no idea how that gap got in the bow. I started with laying the rear deck in and glued into place. I then aligned the front deck with the seams it lays on with the rear deck. Once it was glued into place and set. It was then i noticed the gap.... So i ordered some white tamiya putty that I will apply carefully with a toothpick. Let it dry, sand it down and paint it in to match.

I have started redoing the deck back to the base tan. I will clear it and let it be. I will start the practice of making my own washes and perfecting the art with my cheap lindberg hood model. Progress and work my way up to using the washes on the nice models I am doing like the QE.

I do not think you guys are picking or anything. Like mentioned I appreciate the criticism and advice. It has all been taken to heart and i am using it with the my new build.

I just ordered a 1/350 HMS King George V from Tamiya. I will not be touching it until my QE is done.

When you go about filling a gap like that, might I suggest:

Try to fill as much as you can with sheet styrene. There should be some laying around that can be slid edgewise into the gap. It might only be an inch or two at the widest area there at the very bow. Look around for stuff like the top of a clear plastic clamshell food container and cut a piece about 1/2" wide and as long as it can be and still fit it into the gap. Slide it in there with some sticking above the deck. Flood it with solvent glue on both faces, making sure it doesn't run down the hull.

After it is hard, take an Xacto or a razor blade and tgrim off the extra as flush with the deck as you can.

Now mask with tape along both sides of the gap, leaving a very small extra area along each side of it.

Run a somewhat abrasive sanding stick up and down a few times to make it flush without destroying the tape.

Squirt out a little putty onto something you can scrape it up from, like a length of blue masking tape stuck to the bench top.

Take something like the scrap that you trimmed off and scoop up a little putty. Trowel it onto your gap between the edges of the pieces of tape, using the thickness of the tape to allow you to "screed" it flat. I save my dull #11 blades for this. Holding them by the tip in the handle, the square end of the tang makes a great little one-use tool.When it is dry, another light pass with a medium grit stick, and remove the tape. 

Do a little fine touch up with a fine grit stick. The edges of the tape will have created little ridges that you'll need to get rid of.

Prime.

When dry take a look at it and try to touch up any rough spots.

I learned a while ago, the hard way. Arbitrarily loading a seam or gap with uncontrolled application of putty takes out all kinds of surrounding detail when you go to remove it. And starting out with a hump of putty just creates unnecesary extra work to remove.

Go to it Chief,

Bill