Japanese Oil Tanker *update 7-12*

Mansteins revenge wrote:

I purchased a 1/700 Skywave Japanese WW2 Tanker (the "Tatekawamaru") at the Regional Atlanta IPMS on Saturday...it looks a LOT like the American T-2 or T-3 type...were tanker designs fairly generic during this time-frame? Looks like I could pass it off as American or British! ...by the way, these little buggers are pricey!

...reason I ask is I am planning a dio where the tanker is burning and sinking...

Wow...Bondoman or Tankerbuilder have no opinion on this???  C'mon, guys---I need some info here...

Tankers all look kind of alike because of the nature of their cargo, and the large expanses of deck cluggered up with a maze of piping, valves and catwalks. Beyond that, though, every nation had its own ideas on what "should" be in a particular kind of vessel.

One thing most Japanesse tankers had that US tankers did not was a prominent tripod mast on the aft deck, usually aft of the funnel, for use in their trailing hose refueling method. That, and a rather distinctive type of styling for the center island superstructure, would give the game away to a serious student of ship construction.

For an exquisite model of a standard wartime T-2 tanker (which I am going to get, someday) check out Loose Cannon Production's kit - $75 with the photoetch, but that includes materials to build the optional shelterdeck so you can load the tanker up with deck cargo (PT-boats included!).

P.S. - Here's a suggestion for your "moment in time" - 24 May 1944: Off Saranagani Islands, Mindinao. In the early afternoon, lookouts aboard LtCdr Charles H. Andrews' USS GURNARD (SS-254) sight a convoy they identify as consisting of two oilers, "two cargo ships" and three destroyers. Slipping past the escorts, Andrews fires four torpedoes at an oiler. At 1517, TATEKAWA MARU is hit by two torpedoes, the first in oil tank No. 6 and the second in the engine room. She is set ablaze. Ten of her armed guard gunners and 17 crewmen are killed. TATEKAWA MARU sinks at 05-42N, 125-43E. Found that little tidbit here.

mfsob wrote:

Tankers all look kind of alike because of the nature of their cargo, and the large expanses of deck cluggered up with a maze of piping, valves and catwalks. Beyond that, though, every nation had its own ideas on what "should" be in a particular kind of vessel. One thing most Japanesse tankers had that US tankers did not was a prominent tripod mast on the aft deck, usually aft of the funnel, for use in their trailing hose refueling method. That, and a rather distinctive type of styling for the center island superstructure, would give the game away to a serious student of ship construction. For an exquisite model of a standard wartime T-2 tanker (which I am going to get, someday) check out Loose Cannon Production's kit - $75 with the photoetch, but that includes materials to build the optional shelterdeck so you can load the tanker up with deck cargo (PT-boats included!). P.S. - Here's a suggestion for your "moment in time" - 24 May 1944: Off Saranagani Islands, Mindinao. In the early afternoon, lookouts aboard LtCdr Charles H. Andrews' USS GURNARD (SS-254) sight a convoy they identify as consisting of two oilers, "two cargo ships" and three destroyers. Slipping past the escorts, Andrews fires four torpedoes at an oiler. At 1517, TATEKAWA MARU is hit by two torpedoes, the first in oil tank No. 6 and the second in the engine room. She is set ablaze. Ten of her armed guard gunners and 17 crewmen are killed. TATEKAWA MARU sinks at 05-42N, 125-43E. Found that little tidbit here.

Wow...thanks for the info...I'll post the box-art soon so ya'll can see what I am talking about.  Cool idea for the dio...that's the exact ship I am modeling!!! 

 Hello Manstein !!! I vill haff you know ,you sinkum my tanker und you vill make mad a lot of germans !! All kidding aside you can use a little fun too. Did you know that during ww2 the standard oil co . was running l.n.g. ships too !! The biggest thing to remember is these old beasts had a ^&%$* of deck camber . This is most noticable from the forward quarter looking aft . This is Not hard to do though . .You can fudge it by changing the front plate on the Island on the revell kit . The one you have I really am not sure about . but don,t forget JAPANESE tankers fueled others at sea in an aft trail situation . You have gotten other input on that . If you want to signify type of load you have to change the piping profile for lite oils and av gas or motor fuel. Venting is of primary importance on the lite oil and gas tankers . They had taller than normal vents and less piping on deck . You vill not shmoke on ze deck eizer. Good luck on the build and let us see some pics . Hope this helped ----tankerbuilder   P. S. The other thing is the layout of deckhouses and their sizes .The early tankers even had small structures on the bow deck.During the wars it became clear that a standardized design was needed , hence t-2 and t-3s

Here she is:

...looks like a T-3 to me...the hull is almost as long as a cruiser's !  Comes with some nice etch for the piping/latticework... 

 

 

Somewhere along the way I purchased a used copy of "Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1869 - 1945," Naval Institute Press, ISBN 0-87021-893-X, and it has a chapter on "Oilers."

Several classes are shown including Shiretoko, Kazahaya, Hayasui, and Tamano.  There's a line diagram for the Tatekawa Maru, and she is listed under "Merchant Ships used as Fleet Tankers," with the annotation 10,009 GRT, built 1935, sunk 24 May 1944."

The box art seems pretty close to the line diagram (including the catwalk set off to portside)and the Tatekawa Maru does indeed resemble a T-type tanker, more so than the other oilers which seem to have taller stacks, more bridge superstructure and less aft superstructure than the T's.

Just about every tanker listed was sunk during the war (mostly by US Subs) - there is one, Kyokuto Maru (10,051 GRT), that was sunk by TF38 aircraft in Sep. '44, then raised and repaired in 1952 and went back to work as the California Maru until scrapped in 1963.

Have fun with the kit!

Mike   

 HI MANSTEIN ! ----Hey I could be wrong but that looks like a t3-2 to me . they were larger than the t2 by almost 90 feet ! The elongated stern deck and the profile of the central deckhouse is what I,m going by .I could be wrong , but I don,t think so . The deck camber I mentioned earlier is still something you,d have to deal with in larger scales ,so , I don,t think it will be a problem in this scale .The absence of life rafts and life boats in the picture puzzles me though . Just aft of the bridge on both sides is where the standard boats should be . The life rafts and any extra boats are carried in the spaces on the 01 level next to the stack . They sometimes carried extra boats for the enlarged crews on board .Remember , the coast guard or navy supplied the gun crews . This added sometimes as many as 45 to 55 extra hands . The longer stern definitely indicates that it is of early war JAPANESE design.The deck rig indicates this too . SEE , every country had their own ideas on how they should be built !. That is why , just like trains , the allies decided to have some standardization betweem them . Vell , mine KAPITAN/ LEIUTENANT , don,t vaste a torpedo on my oilschiff . This time I carry ze schnapps !!!   tankerbuilder

Another feature that sets Japanese auxiliaries off is that nation's preference for gun mounts that look more like steel mushrooms than anything else - and the addition of bleached canvas wind dodgers around same that made fine target references, to my eye at least.

Not that it applies to the diorama idea proposed here, but if someone wanted to provoke a lot of head-scratching at a model contest, they could do comparison builts of WW II US and Japanese tankers, and include, on the US side, a Liberty ship. That's right, a Liberty ship. I have the reference somewhere but am still unpacking from a move - a dozen or so Liberty ships were converted into tankers, with NO changes to the outside silouhette. Same number of king posts, cargo booms, etc. Just a few more vents so that, to the submariner's eye, it would appear as just another fat merchantman painted gray in a whole heard of identical ships.

Great info, guys!!!  A few more observations/questions:

1) So that's what that latticework is on the left side: a catwalk---I thought it had something to do with the piping of the liquid cargo...

2) Why were their two superstructures on tankers? Was the forward one the bridge and the aft on living/working quarters?

3) Maybe the lack of lifeboats on the Japanese Tanker goes along with their philosophy of life at the time: you get sunk--you go down w/ the ship...

4) I'm not too thrilled with those elevated gun platforms---were these late-war additions---wonder if I could get away w/ leaving them off...  

By the way, although expensive, it is a great kit in terms of quality: great moldings and some excellent etch for the catwalks, etc...

 

What's in a T2.

Forward of the forward coffer dam, which is about where the forecastle starts, there are ballast tanks, on top of which there are cargo holds, ammunition lockers and other stores, plus the chain locker. At main deck level are shops, paint locker, lamp room.

Midships the structure is fresh water tanks at the main deck level with a lot of open pass thru, ofiicers quarters above that; captains quarters, gyro room and radio room above that; and the chart house/wheel house.

In the stern, aft of the cofferdam, which is about where the stern structure begins, there are all of the predictable engineering spaces, ballast tanks, lockers and ammunition storage. At deck level the seamen's quarters and galley stores, above that the engineer's quarters, galley and the crew and officer's mess rooms, and above that the boat deck which has a double high open space for the boiler room, which is above the engine room and directly under the skylight. I'd say the fore/aft walkways got a lot  of use.

I think the conversion to a Allied ship is a reach, and it looks pretty cool the way it is. She's a beaut and very Japanese looking.

Some out of the box pics of the pieces...

one-piece hull:

Some of that really nice etch:

I think it looks only generally like a T-2 or T-3. It's a stretch. It looks more like the Ohio, of Operation Pedestal fame.

Since you have a model of a Japanese tanker that was torpedoed, and you want to do a scene of a torpedoed tanker, it would of course be best to do the Japanese tanker.

There are plenty of photos of the S.S. Ohio on the web. You can decide for yourself if your kit is close enough. Patrick Camelleri did a nice 1/600 scratch build of her that you can see in the Model Warships Gallery.

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/service/tanker/ohio-600-pc/pc-index.html

 

The Ohio was torpedoed, but not sunk, by the Italian submarine Axum. It was hit by one of 4 torpedoes fired by Lt Cmdr Renato Ferrini in what has got to be one of the most effective spreads in history. The other 3 hit HMS Cairo, twice, and HMS Nigeria. Cairo sank.

The Ohio had two sister ships, the Kentucky and the Oklahoma. Kentucky was sunk by Italian dive bombers and surface ships. Oklahoma was sunk by a U-boat off Savannah.

Yes, Liberties were made into tankers, as well as colliers.   I recall the plans are in the Smithsonian Plans catalogue, but I don't have it here right now. Frank Gerhardt's site has a section designated EC2-S-AW1, but these have the traditional tanker form, with engines aft and a mid-ship bridge.  I'm not sure if these are the tanker variants MSOB referred too or are another type altogether. 

Fred

onyxman wrote:

Since you have a model of a Japanese tanker that was torpedoed, and you want to do a scene of a torpedoed tanker, it would of course be best to do the Japanese tanker.

Agree...when I sink a tanker it usually settles level in the water...rarely do they break apart like many cargo-types do...Anyone have any other info on the tendency of tankers to behave as they go down??? 

bondoman wrote:

What's in a T2. Forward of the forward coffer dam, which is about where the forecastle starts, there are ballast tanks, on top of which there are cargo holds, ammunition lockers and other stores, plus the chain locker. At main deck level are shops, paint locker, lamp room. Midships the structure is fresh water tanks at the main deck level with a lot of open pass thru, ofiicers quarters above that; captains quarters, gyro room and radio room above that; and the chart house/wheel house. In the stern, aft of the cofferdam, which is about where the stern structure begins, there are all of the predictable engineering spaces, ballast tanks, lockers and ammunition storage. At deck level the seamen's quarters and galley stores, above that the engineer's quarters, galley and the crew and officer's mess rooms, and above that the boat deck which has a double high open space for the boiler room, which is above the engine room and directly under the skylight. I'd say the fore/aft walkways got a lot  of use. I think the conversion to a Allied ship is a reach, and it looks pretty cool the way it is. She's a beaut and very Japanese looking.

Bondo, that's a ton of cool info but I can't follow exactly where you are talking about because I am not familar w/ all of the terminology, such as "cofferdam"? 

You can break a tanker in two at the dock just by loading it unevenly. I have no idea how they react to a torpedo hit. I guess it depends on where it's hit and whether it's loaded or in ballast.

 Herr MANSTEIN --- If you get a good shot in and it strikes just aft of the midships cofferdam it will most times but not always break in two . The cofferdam was a doubled w/t bulkhead just forward of the engineering spaces and just forward and just aft of the belowdecks areas midships . The cofferdams sometimes were used as extra ballasting tanks and sometimes were even filled with sand to reduce fire hazard when in a collision. The cofferdam sometimes meant the difference in saving a ship and it,s crew as well . The various tanks could be flooded with sea water and cargo carried only in the longitudal midline tanks . iT WAS A MANEUVER USED OFTEN TO KEEP U-BOAT LOSSES DOWN .  If a torpedo struck exactly at the forward cofferdam you usually saw a tanker sink in two halves .The whole trick was to break the tanker,s back . the resultant explosion from the torpex ignited fumes and oil at the impact site ..Why am I ,a tanker captain ,telling you this. Maybe it,s because I wouldve rammed if I could, especially if I had to sail alone .    tankerbuilder

hee hee hee...loose lips sink ships---thanks for the info! Should post WIP pics soon...kit went together great----working on PE railings now.

Progress. Please comment or I'll do something nasty in your bilge tank...

Looks good so far although I don't get the Blue Room.

First fix on tanker models I do is to chop out and replace the curved fillet fore/aft of the deck houses. Ships have style, and if you care it's important to get it right.

You can see where that would help, but of course you are sinking it, right?

Second thing, after the fact that you'll never defeat that pathetic attempt at plate variation. Cut the freeboard down by 50%.

bondoman wrote:

Looks good so far although I don't get the Blue Room. First fix on tanker models I do is to chop out and replace the curved fillet fore/aft of the deck houses. Ships have style, and if you care it's important to get it right. You can see where that would help, but of course you are sinking it, right? Second thing, after the fact that you'll never defeat that pathetic attempt at plate variation. Cut the freeboard down by 50%.

Dang---the Japanese vessel looks just like your T-2 !!!  What's a blue room and freeboard?

between water & deck.

ddp59 wrote:

between water & deck.

So my ship is riding TWICE as high as it should in the water???

It all depends on whether or not she's loaded. For your purposes I'd think you want her a big fat loaded target. The freeboard on a T2 is about 11 feet when fully loaded, so you can be the judge.

I looked at a couple of shots of your ship, and the model looks right if she were empty. You can tell because there's a good 8-10 feet of antifouling paint showing when she's as high as that model.

I am about to add more etch...it looks as if there is an elevated catwalk on either side of the forward bridge of the ship---what was the purpose of this? Why couldn't the crew just walk on the deck?

On a T2 you'd have a workout climbing over all the pipes.

bondoman wrote:

On a T2 you'd have a workout climbing over all the pipes.

Ahhhh, that makes sense...I thought it had something to do with static electricity discharge...what's a blue room?

Your photo studio, apparently, and I know you like it that way so no beef from me. I just notice that all your very fine models, except the chicks, seem to be photog'd in some kind of blue light. Good on, mate.

If/when you cut down the hull, you can give it a list, roll, down at the bow, whatever. Adds all kinds of dynamics to a model on a base.

bondoman wrote:

Your photo studio, apparently, and I know you like it that way so no beef from me. I just notice that all your very fine models, except the chicks, seem to be photog'd in some kind of blue light. Good on, mate. If/when you cut down the hull, you can give it a list, roll, down at the bow, whatever. Adds all kinds of dynamics to a model on a base.

Ahhhhh...I get you now...Another question: What is the structure on the bow w/ the PE roof?

Also, were the main crew areas in the forward bridge or the aft structure? I also read where some of these Japanese tankers could also carry a modest # of passengers...