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1/350 DKM Scharnhorst announced by Dragon

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  • Member since
    December 2002
Posted by Dreadnought52 on Monday, August 23, 2010 4:21 PM

The kit was delivered to me along with the supplemental PE railing.  It is a stunningly beautiful kit.  I don't think I have ever seen anything like this before.  The kit includes multiple sheets of PE, just not the railings.  I am very impressed with the level of detail, even on the various gun barrels.  This is one plastic kit I don't believe I will bother to get brass barrels for.  If anyone out there is hesitant about plunking down the cash for this DON'T be as it is without a doubt the best plastic warship model I have ever seen.  WS

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Windy city, US
Posted by keilau on Friday, August 20, 2010 8:20 PM

Dennis Smith

I saw it yesterday at the LHS.  Beautiful.  About $150.

$125 at Sprue Brothers. Add $20 for the PE railing.

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Glen Ellyn, IL
Posted by Dennis Smith on Friday, August 20, 2010 5:01 PM

I saw it yesterday at the LHS.  Beautiful.  About $150.

  • Member since
    January 2010
1/350 DKM Scharnhorst announced by Dragon review coming.
Posted by Bruno Schielzeth on Friday, August 20, 2010 4:51 PM

Well, in the next week or so I guess we will all know what's in the box and how it looks. My review kit should be riding the big brown truck fairly soon and I'll be happy to throw a few hints to the faithful. Smile

As for cost, I don't know but it's not unusual these days for kits in this range to go for $150- $200. Personally it's expensive but if the kit is detailed enough, good enough, and enough fun to build then it's probably worth the money, at least to some people. 

Just to make a point: several years ago I received the Tamiya I-400 basic kit for review. Stunning detail. Beautiful moldings. And pretty expensive for such a small model. Even adding an aftermarket photoetch set to it, which was HIGHLY necessary, it took me a total of just over a week to build. And when I was all done I had a stunningly nice display model and a complete feeling of .............. boredom and somehow cheated. The kit was flawless. Everything fit and looked right. It was beautiful. And I was bored throughout the entire build.

On the other hand the Tamiya IJN Mogami was beautifully molded, filled with oddly useless detail in odd places, but everything that needed to be there was and when I was done, after several weeks of effort, I felt fulfilled and proud of the build. There were missing details and it will receive them in the near future before I display it again, but somehow the whole build felt good from day #1

I'm not sure what makes a kit 'too perfect' but it can happen. With no errors, no 'modeling skills required' or any problems to overcome building even a great kit can become boring and that's not the feeling one should have when building a model.

I have built Mach 2 kits. They are just slightly above scratch building one from a rock. But there is a certain satisfaction to beating one into something that looks like what it's supposed to be. I have turned some classic Airfix kits into pretty nice looking replicas of the real thing. Somehow the time and effort required seemed worth it. And then I've run into kits that, for one reason or another, have ended up on the 'shelf of doom' to die a long and lonely death. I just couldn't or wouldn't put the effort into them to make them right.

Model building should be, first and foremost, FUN. They were fun 50 years ago when I first put glue to plastic and they should be fun now. The kits are bigger, better engineered, more detailed, and many times more expensive than the $1.49 Airfix kits in 1963 but the fun factor still has to be there or they will never sell well. Each manufacturer choses their own formula to make a winner. Some work for me, some don't. 

I will see what Dragon has for all of us soon and I'll let you all know what I find. OK? 

 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: NJ
Posted by JMart on Tuesday, June 1, 2010 8:02 AM

Great post as always, Prof Tilley. I have half-solved my "where will it live?" issue since my eldest is going to College next semester...she still thinks I am joking when I said her room will become my maritime display museum ;)

An advantage of having several years worth of "stash" is that I can wait a few years after the kit release, and then pick up the 'deluxe" version, reboxed with extra goodies and at half price of the original release. I can also wait for the AM market to sort itself out, build reviews to come out and other companies to release competing products. I learned my lesson with the CAD-ladden Nagato.....Sad

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Truro Nova Scotia, Canada
Posted by SuppressionFire on Sunday, May 30, 2010 8:34 PM

If you are really keen on the kit it will be yours regardless of current speculation on a future cost. If this price is too high attend model contests & shows. Sooner or later a private vendor will have it on sale for 1/2 the original price. It may take a year or two but you can have your Scharnhorst at a reasonable cost eventually.2 cents

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Fontana, Ca. US
Posted by Lord-Dogbert on Sunday, May 30, 2010 7:20 PM

I would've went with the basic version but my mom parents gave me some money to the annual memorial day tribute model; so It was free to me, more or less.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, May 30, 2010 7:09 PM

Damn, I wanted to make it up to Military Hobbies this weekend. I am building the Academy basic issue Graf Spee right now and am content with its level of detail. Especially when you consider I paid maybe $30 for it.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Fontana, Ca. US
Posted by Lord-Dogbert on Sunday, May 30, 2010 4:20 PM

This weekend Military Hobbies in Orange is having a 30% sale. I have been eying the premium Academy Gref Spee. I got it for $90 after discount but the sticker was $128. It comes with almost everything the Dragon kit does. If I can get the Scharnhorst in the same price range I'll spring.

The difference I see so far between the kits is:

The Dragon kit has nicer hull as it's horizontally split instead of vertical. I hate vertical split hulls.

Dragon includes glass for the windows and search lights

Dragon port holes are drilled out already

Dragon deck will have the camber like their destroyers.

Dragon AA guns look better, have the seats and controls.

Academy includes the wooden deck which is huge buy me. I love that the hand rails just aren't plopped down on the edges of the deck, they have little pins that go into the deck. Sweet!

I don't see any specific mention of PE handrails for the Dragon kit, there are no pics or mention of them that I saw on the site but maybe I missed them. If the scharnhorst doesn't come with hand rails. I don't want to go to GMM to buy handrails so some of the value is lost. There will probably be a cyber-hobby release to make up. This makes no sense that the hand rails aren't there.

I'd say in the long run it all works out. and I'll add Scharnhorst to my b'day list for September :-) I'll get it eventually and hopefully after the Graf Spee is done.


  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, May 30, 2010 9:36 AM

As a certifiable Olde Phogey who can remember when the most expensive plastic kits on the market were priced at $12.00, I've long since given up passing judgment on what constitutes a "reasonable" price for a kit.  The market is completely different now than it was in the Goode Olde Dayes, when masters for molds had to be made by hand, instruction sheets had to be drawn with pen and ink, and the vast majority of purchasers were kids. 

I don't have any special insights into the finances of kit manufacturers, but I can easily understand that their pricing decisions are, by definition, complicated.  The manufacturer has to get his investment back in a reasonable amount of time, shipping expenses have to be covered, and everybody involved in the process (from the people who make the masters and do the research through the people who run the molding machines to the wholesale distributers to the shipping firms to the hobby shop where you buy the thing) has to make money.  How much money constitutes a "reasonable" profit?  That's not for me to say.

Nowadays, when a super-high-quality kit hits the market I ask myself two questions:  Do I want it and can I afford it.  Since the answer to the latter question usually is "no," the former one doesn't matter much.  I just can't justify spending a hundred dollars on a 1/350 battleship - even if I think it's "worth it" in terms of what's in the box. 

I'm sure the Dragon Scharnhorst is a fine kit.  In all honesty, if I were seriously thinking about spending that kind of money on a warship kit, that might well be my first choice.  And if there was a realistic possibility that I'd immediately take it out to the workshop and spend six or eight months working on it, I just might buy it.  But the truth of the matter is that, after spending some happy hours ogling at the quality of the parts, I'd probably put it in my already ridiculously large stash - and maybe build it a few years from now, or maybe not.  (I'm embarrassed to admit that I operate like that - but the editorial in this month's FSM suggests that I'm far from alone in that respect.) 

Fortunately my eyesight is still good enough that I can get a lot of satisfaction from 1/700 kits - and there are enough modestly priced ones around to keep me busy for the rest of my life (even without dipping into the world of the resin manufacturers).  My observation has been that both Dragon and Trumpeter offer state-of-the-art 1/700 kits at prices that won't destroy my bankbook.  The Trumpeter 1/700 North Carolina costs $25.00 (at Free Time Hobbies, as of a few minutes ago).  The superb White Ensign detail set for it costs $18.37 (from the same source).  Total:  $43.37.  Is that a lot for a model that's about a foot long?  Yep.  But it'll keep me busy for several weeks - and produce a model that will fit in our existing curio cabinet. 

The Trumpeter 1/350 North Carolina (which is generally agreed to be less accurate than the smaller one) costs $107.95, plus $54.57 for the appropriate detail set.  Total:  $162.52.  Mathematically, that's not an unreasonable difference.  (Producing, distributing, and stocking a 1/350 product probably does cost at least four times as much as producing, distributing, and stocking its 1/700 equivalent.)  But the bottom line, from my standpoint, is that the Tilley budget can handle $54.57 and can't handle $162.52 (ignoring the matter of where the finished 1/350 model would live).  I suspect I'm not the only modeler for whom that decision is a no-brainer. 

Now then, Dragon and/or Trumpter:  that Tamiya 1/700 Scharnhorst represented the state of the art when it first appeared, back in the late seventies.  But it's looking kind of long in the tooth these days....

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: EG48
Posted by Tracy White on Saturday, May 29, 2010 10:27 PM

To clear up a couple of mis-perceptions.....

The $139 price is NOT the MSRP; Freetime Hobbies is offering it for $10 less even before their pre-order sale price.

The kit comes with four sheets of photo-etch... it's hardly the same offering that Trumpeter has been putting out there. A buyer is much likelier to not need any further add-ons other than glue and paint with this release.

Tracy White Researcher@Large

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, May 29, 2010 7:53 PM

I have no doubt that Revell could produce a just as accurate and detailed kit for a lower price. Just look at their 1/72 U boat, 1/144 Fletcher, and 1/72 GATO. While I do love seeing the beautiful kits coming out of the Far East, to me and most other modelers around here apparently, they re overpriced. I see them sit on the shelves at the LHS for long periods and eventually get put on a sale shelf for a much lower, (but still expensive) price. And then they still hardly move. Yes the hardcore ship builders pick up a few, but I don't see how the market outside of Asia can support it.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Saturday, May 29, 2010 6:18 PM

Well,your simply not going to get a well detailed DML,Hasegawa,Fujimi,or Aoshima battleship for $100.00,thats a fact.Maybe a Revell or Trumpy could come in that low.but $129.00 is an excellent price for the product,especially compared to Nagato or Mutsu.I'm sorry it's priced out of yours and others range,but it still is an excellent product at a  good price.

  • Member since
    February 2005
Posted by warshipbuilder on Saturday, May 29, 2010 5:59 PM

"When you consider the Aoshima Japanese Cruisers were going for about $120.00 thats not too bad for a qualiy battleship kit."

Maybe, but we in the UK by and large, are simply not interested in those particular subjects.

The IJN subjects you refer to are principally aimed at the Japanese Home Market where the demand for; and levels of disposable income for such purchases are much higher.

I would argue that the IJN subjects to which you refer, are simply not a valid comparison in this context..

Such subjects will undoubtedly sell in larger quantities to the Home Mkt,and possibly that of the USA than they would in Europe, whereas, the Scharnhorst kit should appeal more in the European market.

DragonUSA have seen fit to offer some out of date 1/700 kit to be included as a 'freebie' as a lure to buy the Scharnhorst kit, which to me smacks of desperation.

http://www.dragonusaonline.com/item_detail.aspx?ItemCode=DRA1040

 

I'd have sooner seen the kit offered as a stand-alone subject at a $100 tag, rather than being seen as an opportunity to flog off some aged crap 1/700 kit in an incompatible scale just to shift a few more otherwise unsaleable boxes.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Saturday, May 29, 2010 2:34 PM

When you consider the Aoshima Japanese Cruisers were going for about $120.00 thats not too bad for a qualiy battleship kit.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, May 29, 2010 1:53 PM

You can have it when Revell or Academy puts one out.Wink

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Windy city, US
Posted by keilau on Saturday, May 29, 2010 12:57 PM

Lord-Dogbert

The poster looks beautiful and if the quality is like that of the Buchanan, et al then I'd pay $120 for the Scharnhorst with PE and extras.

DIDO. If the Dragon battleship kit has the quality of their Gearing and Buchanan kit, I will also gladly pay the $120 price.

With Trumpeter and other Japanese kit maker pricing the battleships in the $200-300 range. And Tamiya doubled the price of their 25 years old kits with no new molds. The Dragon and Revell new battleships look like a steal. When can I have a new South Dakota Class battleship kit with new molding technique at the Dragon and Revell price?

  • Member since
    February 2005
Posted by warshipbuilder on Saturday, May 29, 2010 6:06 AM

Well it's out sometime in July.

That's the extent of the Good News.

The Bad News is that the latest pre-order price is $139.95.

There is of course postage/delivery to add to this, so we are getting nearer to the $200 price I predicted.

It was said elsewhere some time ago that Dragon were looking at a price of around $100 or below.

It now looks like this is well out of thee window.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, September 27, 2009 6:46 AM

Personally, I prefer thicker PE railings in 1/350 scale.  To me, a major problem with 1/350 PE railings is that most are much too thin and have virtually no scale depth.  I agree that Dragon's PE are thick; therefore, I wish that they would focus on railings and let the builder worry about which detail PE sets are best to supplement the kit.

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Fontana, Ca. US
Posted by Lord-Dogbert on Saturday, September 26, 2009 6:33 PM

The poster looks beautiful and if the quality is like that of the Buchanan, et al then I'd pay $120 for the Scharnhorst with PE and extras.

Dragon has a beautiful looking wood deck and PE for the Bismark, I wonder if that's in the works right now or they'll concede the kit to Revell.

My only complaint about the Dragon PE is that it's thick compared to GMM and Tom's. I've broken more x-acto #11 tips for the Buchannan than the entire Tamiya Enterprise with full GMM complement combined. I've taken to using PE scissors now which I normally don't have to use.

 

I wish I could pre-order the Scharnhorst :-)

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:40 PM
I sure am glad that Lindberg didn't put out this model of Scharnhorst.

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:37 PM
 subfixer wrote:
Even their 1/72 scale submarines are reletively cheap considering what they are. (But it would have been nice if they thrown a little photoetch in there)
And they are accurate as well....
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:33 PM

Even their 1/72 scale submarines are reletively cheap considering what they are. (But it would have been nice if they had thrown a little photoetch in there)

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Windy city, US
Posted by keilau on Sunday, September 20, 2009 7:27 PM
 EPinniger wrote:
Actually Revell appear to be one of the few manufacturers that don't ask "silly money" for their newer kits (Academy is another); their new 1/350 Bismarck is very good value (around the same RRP as the old Tamiya kit, though of course you can get the latter for much less if you look around) and though their Tirpitz, released this year, is a bit more, it's still significantly cheaper than any other new-tool 1/350 battleships released recently.

The price of around $120 mentioned for Dragon's new Scharnhorst certainly isn't cheap but, if the kit is to the same standard as Dragon's recent USN DD kits, it should be reasonably good value in comparison to what many other manufacturers are asking. I can't imagine the same kit from Trumpeter costing much less than this, and the latter's standards of accuracy and quality seem to be more variable than Dragon.

I can't agree more with every points you made here. Thanks.

  • Member since
    January 2006
Posted by EPinniger on Sunday, September 20, 2009 3:14 PM

Actually Revell appear to be one of the few manufacturers that don't ask "silly money" for their newer kits (Academy is another); their new 1/350 Bismarck is very good value (around the same RRP as the old Tamiya kit, though of course you can get the latter for much less if you look around) and though their Tirpitz, released this year, is a bit more, it's still significantly cheaper than any other new-tool 1/350 battleships released recently.

The price of around $120 mentioned for Dragon's new Scharnhorst certainly isn't cheap but, if the kit is to the same standard as Dragon's recent USN DD kits, it should be reasonably good value in comparison to what many other manufacturers are asking. I can't imagine the same kit from Trumpeter costing much less than this, and the latter's standards of accuracy and quality seem to be more variable than Dragon.

I'll certainly be very interested to see how the 1/350 Scharnhorst turns out, here's hoping Dragon follow it up with a Zerstorer or Torpedoboot in the same scale!

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Saturday, September 19, 2009 11:52 AM

I, too, am very happy with the newer ship kits being released and will happily pay the price.  These kits are far more detailed, far more accurate, and are in far greater variety than when I was growing up in the 1960's.  I distinctly remember the weekly trip to the local drug store to buy my newest Pyro Table Top Navy ship model for either $0.39 or $0.50, or the Renwal fleet sets for $1.00.  It represented a much bigger step when I could afford the $2.00 Revell or Aurora ships, or the larger scale Renwal.  But, the detail and accuracy of these ships varied considerably.

Today, I do not consider it unreasonable to pay for a huge variety of ships in outstanding detail.  I believe that, for the most part, the manufacturers are performing an excellent service to us at reasonable profit.  I hope that they keep up their good work.

Now, if they would only start producing sailing ships!

Bill Morrison

  • Member since
    December 2002
Posted by Dreadnought52 on Saturday, September 19, 2009 9:53 AM
 keef666 wrote:

I bet within 12 months, Revell or Trumpeter will also release one, and sorry but they too wil be silly money,

don't get me wrong it you want a model some people will pay the asking price, but i for one won't, i would go with out than be over charged, please don't go on about the cost of the moulds etc etc, these companies make hansome profits off the kits the produce, but way over charge, as do the wholesalers, theres no need for it, and the compaines would sell more kits,

I would love the 1/350 Prinz Eugen and the new Scharnhorst, as they are my two fav ships, but sorry they will have to do without me unless they sell at more realistic price, i was talking to a guy in a well know model chain store and asked how the big 1/32 scale plane kits were selling, i got " there no, its because they are too expensive," sorry in todays cilmatic world, people have more important things to buy, than spend it on plastic model kits, which has the knock on effect, the model compaines, then say, they aren't selling, pull the plug,

so unless they lower the price, and sell a lot more, they will shoot themselves in the foot,

sorry for going on, and someone will shoot me down in flames now, right!

 




It's nice to know that you are able to criticize the price of a kit that doesn't even have an announced price, isn't yet on the market and that you haven't seen. Enough already, you should at least wait until there is actual pricing and reviews of the kit contents to go on a rant. Just what is your idea of a "realistic" price for a kit like this, with all research, state of the art tooling, currency variations, shipping and marketing expenses, legal fees and insurance?

If you don't want to pay for it, don't. I'm very happy to see new kits of ships like this and Prinz Eugen. I don't think the prices for these are "silly money" at all. I have been buying much more expensive resin 1/350 kits for years and have been satisfied that I have received plenty of value for my money. I am willing to give a producer a profit. It is a business. The object is to make money. These kits aren't produced solely to make me or any other hobbyist happy. They are part of a business enterprise. If they don't make a profit they won't stay in the game.
  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: england
Posted by keef666 on Saturday, September 19, 2009 7:25 AM

I bet within 12 months, Revell or Trumpeter will also release one, and sorry but they too wil be silly money,

don't get me wrong it you want a model some people will pay the asking price, but i for one won't, i would go with out than be over charged, please don't go on about the cost of the moulds etc etc, these companies make hansome profits off the kits the produce, but way over charge, as do the wholesalers, theres no need for it, and the compaines would sell more kits,

I would love the 1/350 Prinz Eugen and the new Scharnhorst, as they are my two fav ships, but sorry they will have to do without me unless they sell at more realistic price, i was talking to a guy in a well know model chain store and asked how the big 1/32 scale plane kits were selling, i got " there no, its because they are too expensive," sorry in todays cilmatic world, people have more important things to buy, than spend it on plastic model kits, which has the knock on effect, the model compaines, then say, they aren't selling, pull the plug,

so unless they lower the price, and sell a lot more, they will shoot themselves in the foot,

sorry for going on, and someone will shoot me down in flames now, right!

 

its hard to be humble when your perfect in every way
  • Member since
    April 2004
  • From: Windy city, US
Posted by keilau on Friday, September 18, 2009 9:07 PM

 ModelWarships wrote:
I have been informed by Dragon that the target price is under $120 US.

Hopefully, it will be a model at the Revell, Tamiya and Trumpeter 1:350 scale battleship price point with higher quality, detail and fidelity. It sounds very reasonable to me and should result in a street price under $100.

The model length should be 26-3/4 vs the Bismarck's 28-1/4.

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