First Sailing Ship Model?

Been doing some searching, and it appears that the Lindberg Jolly Roger is not available here in the UK.  Sad, as it looked very interesting, however postage costs from the USA double the price, so not really worth it.

I also can't find the Revell 1/196 Constitution - however the 1/150 United states is available.  Would that be comparable to the 1/196 Constitution?

Thanks for all of the advice so far!! 

I believe that one should start with a ship that interests him/her and learn accordingly.  If the builder is interested in the ship, he/she is likely to finish it, albeit with perhaps a simplified rigging.  Should they decide that sailing ship modeling is for them, then go for the technical side of building simple rigs to learn the art and science of rigging; if sailing ship modeling is a passing interest, then they builder at least has a ship of interest.

Bill Morrison

As someone relatively new to sailing ships, let me throw in my two cents worth. My inspiration was also the Aubrey-Maturin books. My first ship was the 1/196 Constitution. It was not that difficult and even with a fairly simplified rigging, it made an impressive piece to look at, and got the apropriate oohs and ahhs from friends. With the limited hobby shop choices, my next was the Lindberg "Captain Kidd" which I now know is based on the Wappen von Hamburg. As a larger more complicated ship, it stretched my skills a bit. By the time I reached the rigging though, I was frustrated by the limited and not very clear rigging diagrams. That started a search for more information that led me to these forums.

That progression seems to have worked for me, although I'm not sure I would do it again that way. Naw...I would. There was something satisfying in having those two ships sitting there, something that feeds my hunger to do more and better. I'm now going back and following Prof. Tilleys maxim of start with a small ship in a large scale. I'm now working on the Revell and Emhar viking ships.Next in line are the boats Bill just mentioned, the Gertrude Thebaud ( also sold as Americas Cup Racer by Lindberg), an old Bluenose from Aurora,and the War of Independence Schooner.

Once you get a few builds under your belt, personal taste will determine your later builds. I've fallen under the spell of the history of these ships and boat and spend as much time researching as building. I'm also building my skills to build something both atractive and accurate. For me this is fun, and you'll have to find what is fun for you.

As mentioned above, the Dom Fernando is a nice kit, and I believe it was mentioned in another thread, it's the same ship released by Zvezda as the Acheron. Trolling ebay is a good source for a lot of these boats, and at a price where you're not afraid to try new techniques. And whetever you choose, keep reading these forums, they are an amazing source of information. When you decide on a first ship, look it up in the forums and get some ideas on the build, and get to see what others have done. Good luck and have fun.

Well, my suggestions are going to be a little different from those that have been offered so far.  In my opinion the best way to get into sailing ship modeling is with a relatively small ship in a relatively large scale.  The aspect of the hobby that provides the most frustration is surely rigging.  (That, really, is what makes a plastic sailing ship so different from any other kind of plastic model.)  The smaller the scale, and the bigger the ship, the more challenging the rigging is going to be.  On that basis, a big Victory or Constitution is most emphatically not a good newcomer's project - and a small-scale Victory or Constitution is worse.  I've known of dozens, if not hundreds, of cases in which modelers new to sailing ships have started with such a kit.  One of two things usually happens.  One - the modeler gets overwhelmed by the complexity of the project early in the proceedings and gives up.  Two - the modeler slogs away at the model for several months, and then suddenly discovers that the quality of his workmanship, and his standards of what's acceptable, have gone way up during that time.  So the work he did three months ago no longer satisfies him, and he abandons the project.

My strong recommendation (which almost everybody to whom I've offered this advice has, of course,  ignored) is to start with a project that  doesn't take long.  I say it makes more sense to spend a little money and a few weeks on a nice model of a small ship, as a learning exercise (which also, incidentally, will produce a mighty impressive display for the family mantle), than to sink several hundred dollars into a huge kit that will never get finished.

I enthusiastically second Jim's recommendation of the old Pyro fishing schooner Gertrude L. Thebaud.  (It's an old kit, but a basically sound one; it's appeared at various times under the Lifelike and Lindberg labels - sometimes under the slightly deceptive name "American Cup Racer."  But it's unmistakably a fishing schooner, and it makes a beautiful model.)  At about the same time (the early fifties) Pyro released a model of the American revenue cutter Roger B. Taney.  (It's also appeared in Lifelike and Lindberg boxes, labeled "Independence War Schooner."  Another old Pyro/Lifelike/Lindberg kit that's started quite a few modelers out in the sailing ship (or, in this case, sort-of-sailing ship) genre is the revenue cutter Harriet Lane (aka "Civil War Blockade Runner.") 

Taking off in a completely different direction, I can recommend three kits that represent ships from much earlier periods and that would make fine newcomer's projects:  the Viking ships from Revell and Emhar and the medieval cog marketed by Revell and Zvezda (same kit).  I built the Revell Viking ship a couple of years ago, and I'm extremely happy with it; though the instructions don't tell you so, it is in fact an extremely accurate model of the Gokstad Ship, one of the two major surviving Norse vessels.  I was almost done with that model when the Emhar kit was released.  In some ways it's superior to the Revell one (they both represent the Gokstad Ship), and Emhar also offers a couple of sets of figures to populate the finished model.  I haven't built the Revell/Zvezda cog, but it's gotten generally favorable reviews.  The price is kind of steep for what you get, but it strikes me as a near-ideal introduction to sailing ship modeling:  one mast (plus a bowsprit) and just enough rigging to provide a sound working familiarity with the subject without involving much repetition.  And what a lovely model could be built from that kit.

Hope all that provides at least a little food for thought.  Good luck.  It's a great hobby.

Pyro produced a plastic Gertrude L.Thebaud fishing schooner and something called the Independence brig of war, and an America. Revell produced a mid-sized America, but I can't recall any other similar plastic kits.  You can get the 1/600 kits on ebay.

Bill Morrison

Someone made a plastic kit of a fishing schooner (help me out, guys).  A schooner has much simplified rigging compared to a full ship or even a bark, so I recommend not starting with a full ship if you can find something simpler.  Wait for your second model to go to a ship.

I also concur with the recommendation not to start with a wooden plank on bulkhead kit.  Start with a plastic kit and go to wooden models after you have a few plastic ones under your belt.

Another possibility is that Lindberg has re-released a shrimp boat and a trawler.  Not sailing ships but they do have a bit of rigging.  You learn the plastic construction and get just a taste of rigging.  Then on to Revell or Heller sailing ships.

Someone mentioned the small scale stuff.  Sure hated to see the 1:600 stuff disappear.

I'd suggest the 1:196 scale Revell Constitution kit (as opposed to its 1:96 scale big brother) as a good introduction to ship modeling.  It looks good straight out of the box, but also provides the opportunity for more advanced modelers to add more detail.

I'd also suggest looking at the Mini-Mamoli line of solid-hull wooden kits which offers a Constitution, Victory, and others.   If nothing else they offer a good introduction to wooden ship modeling.

Plank-on-frame wooden kits shouldn't enter in to the discussion.  I'd like to have a dollar for every beginning modeler who bought an expensive plank-on-frame kit as their first model ship and never finished it - I'd be quite wealthy today...

Mark

To me, the problem with the small Revell USS Constitution centers on the molded-on carronades and the molded-open gunport lids, coupled with the fact that the model represents the ship in the 1830's with the Andrew Jackson figurehead.  It is a very nice kit, though.

The Lindberg so-called Jolly Roger, aka La Flore, is a slightly larger kit with a full gun deck, no molded on carronades, and separately molded gunports lids that allow the modeler the choice of opening or closing. It, too, is a very detailed kit of a generic French frigate of the late 18th century. Whatever else one can say about Lindberg, they do make nice small-scale sailing ships.

My LHS has not yet received the Dom Fernando IIe Gloria; I cannot wait until they do! 

Bill Morrison

It's a tricky question really!

The small scale sailing ships such as Revell's Connie, the Airfix Victory, et.al. are very simple to put together- an afternoon's work for something like the Revell Constitution. (And they're cheap too). BUT their small scale (most cluster around 1/200) make rigging them with a degree of finess quite difficult!

Conversely, a larger scale plastic ship represents more of a challenge  from an assembly point of view (just the 'parts count' can be daunting), but are consequently much easier to rig in a detailed manner.

So I reason it's all about what you want out of your model?

Not quite 'Napoleonic', but I can add Revell's 'Dom Fernando II e Gloria'  to the list of suggestions. She is a Portugese 'double-banked' frigate of the 1840s, and a very nice kit. The ship was conservative design, and represents many features of the frigate as it had developed by 1815. Worth a look!

bondoman

You really can't go wrong with the Revell Constitution.

While I agree it is maybe the best plastic ship model to start with, might it not be a little overwhelming to someone who has stated they are just getting their feet wet?  How does the Jolly Roger compare in complexity of build to the Revell Constitution?  I know at least some of you folks here have probably done both.  Since this is a Lindberg model, I have to presume it is at least slightly less complicated.  I have never seen the Jolly Roger, so I don't know.  But I have been working on the Revell Constitution off and on for a LONG time.  But then life keeps interfering too..... Just my

You really can't go wrong with the Revell Constitution.

That would not be a bad idea.  The Mamoli HMS Surprise retails for between $300.00 and $500.00. It is a plank-on-bulkhead mixed media kit. Check out Model Expo to see the listing.  The Lindberg so-called "Jolly Roger" is a French frigate of the period that you are looking for, although it is debatable that it actually represents La Flore.  It is, however, a terrific generic kit of a Napoleonic era frigate.  In fact, I have seen reference to someone converting it to HMS Surprise, although I am not sure whether or not it was on  this site.

Bill Morrison

the HMS surprise kits will be very pricey as they are a wood plank on bulkhead kit. before committing to a ship that expensive and that big, i would suggest trying a cheaper smaller model first. the airfix kits are good but even some of those kits are can go for around $60. for a first kit I would suggest the lindberg kits. they hvae recently been re-marketed as pirate ships. the Jolly Roger was the La Flore. blackbeards ship was the Soverign of the Seas and Sir Francis Drakes is the Golden Hind. they are good kits for around $20 or cheaper.

Thanks for that Bill - I wasn't aware that HMS Surprise (the central ship of O'Brian's novels) was available as a kit - off to have a look now!!

Bernie,

The Revell HMAV Bounty is a good place to start. Other equally good kits of that era include the Revell HMS Victory and USS Constitution.  Airfix also offers a reasonably good HMS Victory. Heller offers the French ships-of-the-line Royal Louis, Superbe, and Glorieux, but they are more intricate. Unfortunately, that is the extent of plastic ship model kits of the Napoleonic era.

If you develop an interest in sailing ships of other eras, the Revell and Airfix lines are generally the best, although they are dated.  The Lindberg pirate ships also represent other, real ships and can be very good kits. However, no pirate ever operated ships-of-the-line or frigates!

The Revell  Beagle doesn't really represent anything, nor do many of Heller's kits.

I have taken to building some of the so-called HECEPOB kits as a way of extending Napoleonic ships in my collection. Mamoli's HMS Surprise is a great kit, as are the HMS Bellona and HMS Pandora. The Caldercraft line called "Nelson's Navy" offer arguably the best kits depicting ships of that era, if you can afford them.

I hope that this helps! Good luck!

Bill Morrison