New Trumpeter 1/200 Arizona Released! w/Crew!

You're right!  I didn't think of that, but I do have a few jars of it.  Thank you!

Another color for decks that I don't think has been mentioned is tamiya's Buff.  It may not have the brightness of holystoned teak but for scale effect I think it would be fine. Jon

That's okay.  Not a problem.  I figure something like that would be a "gray" area anyway...pardon the pun. They're all just slightly different shades of tan, anyway.  I'll go with a lighter shade since you mention the holystoning.  I'd imagine the deck would be pretty worn from that and just foot traffic.  Thanks!

Sorry, I am not familiar with the differences between those three colors.  Maybe someone else here can chime in as to which might be a better match for dry, holystoned teak wood.  Off-hand I would say go with what you are familiar with.

Absolutely!  I get to the point that stuff automatically dumps out of my short-term memory..and it's gotten me in fixes more times that I would like to admit.   As for the brush painting, I started that with my first model..but, then I was just an eight-year-old kid and to me (and my parents, of course ) it looked like a work of art!  

I will ask you one more thing..as far as the deck..do you think I should go with MM Wood, Tamiya deck tan, or maybe MM Sand?  I usually go with MM wood on most of my ships, and am pretty content with what I get from it.

LOL, you're not alone in getting confused!  I think I have too many facts running though my head and they battle with each other for dominance, and whichever ones are currently winning are usually what comes out of my fingers.  And like you, I enjoy the assmbly process.  As a kid, it was many years before I actually started pianting my models.  And it was all brush work even then.  Who knew from airbrushes?  On this model I am going to push the envelope in several directions, though.  It should be quite a learning experience!

tucchese, thank you!  I appreciate your help and patience.  And, 5-S (not N) is what i'll use...I get confused too easily.  As I said before, I'm not sure how accurate paint4models is, but, I feel it is the best of the paint conversion tables that I've come across to date.  Anyhow...I'll sure post pictures.  Besides, regardless of the color issue, this kit looks like its going to be a really fun build.  That's actually my favorite part of the modeling process.. the actual assembling/gluing of the plastic parts. I'm excited! 

If White Ensign and Paint4models say so, I would go with that.  The color 5-D was said by some sailors to be nearly black.  In 1/200 scale it should be a little lighter.  I read somewhere that someone had come up with a formula of how much white to mix with the color to get the correct scale shade.  It was either here, or on Ship Modeler Forum.  I wish I had thought to save it, but that was over a year ago.

As for 5-N Navy Blue, according to memos, it had been ordered, I believe, for trial use, but none of the BBs had been done yet.  Of course some document may pop up that blows all this into the water.  So, as an option for the Arizona, it would not be historical, but if the Arizona had survived it would have probably received a coat of it at some point.  So if you want to use that color, that's up to you!   As the man said, "Whatever floats your boat!"  And I am not trying to be sarcastic or anything.  I am just saying everyone has to make their own decision according to what makes him or her self happy with the model they are working on.  Enjoy!  Don't forget to post pics if you can!

I checked White Ensign's site for Standard Navy Gray and 5-S, D, and L against the tables/charts on the site www.paint4models.com (pretty neat to see regardless of accuracy).  Here's what I can come up with:

5-S  Sea Blue US 07 FS 35109 MM2031 Blue XF-18

5-D Dark Gray US 04 FS 36320 MM1741 Dark Ghost Gray  XF-22

5-L Light Gray US 03  FS 36375 MM1728 Light Ghost Gray  XF-19

Standard Navy Gray US 01 FS 36440 MM1730 Flat Gull Gray XF-66

Again, not sure if these are right.  Please advise.  Thanks!

I meant 5-N instead of S...I think..

Thank you, tucchase.  I went back and read this post again.  With what you and the others say, I will definitely go with 5-L for the tops, and I'll probably use FS 36375 light ghost grey.  And for the main color, I'm still undecided...it's a tie between 5-D and 5-S.  But, which shade of blue or grey to use for these?  If grey, how about FS 36320 dark ghost gray, or if I need darker maybe gunship or euro I gray?? And for blue, FS 35042 lightened with enough flat white (or maybe intermediate blue??) to get something similar to what the model in the Arizona memorial is painted?  Would these be good choices?  I'd actually like to use the 5-S blue - it just looks neater to me.  But, I'd like to be as accurate as I can.  I hate to bug and be a pest, but, if you or someone else could help me decide, I'd be greatful.  Thank you again! Normal 0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

Bigb123

I just got the kit, and was looking at the paint guide.  I'm just guessing here, but the navy blue listed seems too dark to me.  And, were the fighting tops really white, or were they a light grey, such as light gull  or light ghost grey?  I'd like to use Model Master or Tamiya paints, as I already have quite a stock of these and really can't afford any new paint due to the cost of the kit.  Could anyone make any reccomendations?  Thanks for your help!

The consensus pretty well agrees that everything above the top of the stack was Light Gray.  It is generally thought  it was the designation 5-L Light Gray.  Documentation shows that it might have been 5-H Haze Gray, but there has been no confirmation that the Arizona had been converted at the time of Dec 7.  The blue is probably the wrong shade.  The Navy blue they are recommending is not the same shade as 5-N Navy Blue.  And there is no evidence at all that the Arizona was ever this color.  It may have been 5-S Sea Blue, which was lighter than 5-N Navy.  But, while the order had been issued to repaint the battleships at Pearl, in 5-S, and the Arizona had the opportunity, there is no paperwork yet found that confirms it was done.  Prior to the order for the 5-S Sea Blue replacement of 5-D Dark Gray, all the battleships were 5-D.  Or you can make it for 1940 when it was Standard Navy Gray. 

There is a website somewhere that tells you what premade colors match these the best for the different paint manufacturers.  I am sure one of the other people here can tell you the link.  I don't have it.

I just got the kit, and was looking at the paint guide.  I'm just guessing here, but the navy blue listed seems too dark to me.  And, were the fighting tops really white, or were they a light grey, such as light gull  or light ghost grey?  I'd like to use Model Master or Tamiya paints, as I already have quite a stock of these and really can't afford any new paint due to the cost of the kit.  Could anyone make any reccomendations?  Thanks for your help!

Bocks Suv

Thanks for the clarification. Yeh, traditional paint schemes and colors would win over a perfect pink plane, but I bet there are some heated discussions among judges over what were the actual colors and numbers on planes and armour.  You should have seen the look on my face when I first saw models of polka-dot bombers that were used to form up a squadron.  BTW, what are "holidays??" 

Paint holidays are uneven/missed spots or thin application which allows the underlying colors to show.   I believe it comes from saying that the painter took a holiday [i.e. vacation] during the paint job.

of course, if the real thing had paint holidays and you are trying to replicate them you need to provide some sort of documentation for the judges so that they won't mark you down.    We don't know everything.   Otherwise it may get identified as a fault.

subfixer

Dress whites are worn during the summer months and in the tropics, they are made of cotton and are much more comfortable (but harder to keep clean!) than dress blues, which, in earlier times, were made of 100% wool. Now they made of gabardine.  Dress blues are worn during cooler months and in cold conditions are supplemented with  a pea coat.. There is an order given fleetwide as to when the uniform shift is to take place so all will be dressed alike. On those days when it turns cold during the time when whites are required to be worn, it is not incorrect to show a pea coat being worn with dress whites.

 

Cool!  Thanks for the info!  My Dad says he hated his Dress Blues because the wool itched him like crazy.  But they were warm, and that he liked!

Thanks for the clarification. Yeh, traditional paint schemes and colors would win over a perfect pink plane, but I bet there are some heated discussions among judges over what were the actual colors and numbers on planes and armour.  You should have seen the look on my face when I first saw models of polka-dot bombers that were used to form up a squadron.  BTW, what are "holidays??" 

tucchase

subfixer:

Dress whites should reserved for sailors on watch at the quarterdeck, not for a random manning of the rail. Just about the whole crew would be involved in that. Maybe some random groups of sailors going on or coming back from liberty.

 

Do sailors have other white uniforms than their Dress Whites?  All the pics I have seen of the sailors manning the rail show them in white.  I don't mean just a bunch of sailors standing near a rail.  I know if you are going to make it look good, you will need to cast a whole bunch more figures.  Trumpeter only gives you 64, so about 20 in each pose.  The Trumpeter figures only come in three poses, At Attention, At Attention Saluting, and At Ease.  The way they are molded, they are pretty much unmodifiable.  Plus, their caps look like they were borrowed from the Sta-Puff Marshmallow Man.  So where would you put figures like these?  None of them are walking, or doing anything.  I think Trumpeter  screwed up a chance to have a really good feature with this model, but instead they made nearly useless toy figures.  I am hoping some of you former Navy folks can come up with some ideas that might look believable.  About all I can think of is put all the saluting figures in a group, in lines, and have one of the At Ease figures painted as an officer, who has just finished addressing his men.  Or all the At Attention figures in a similar group currently being addressed by their officer.  Do the sailors ever salute as a group?  Or do they just come to Attention?  Would two officers be saluting each other?  I can't imagine a Captain, or Admiral, coming to attention to return a salute from a Lieutenant, unless said Lieutenant happened to be a MOH wearer. 

These sets of figures from Preisser sound like they could make quite a difference.

 

LOL   How can it be hijacking if you have the name Arizona in it? 

*realizes he is now guilty of thread hijacking as well ... ponders the implications ... chuckles evily and thinks, "Maybe I could find a place for a pink Arizona after all ..."*

subfixer

Dress whites should reserved for sailors on watch at the quarterdeck, not for a random manning of the rail. Just about the whole crew would be involved in that. Maybe some random groups of sailors going on or coming back from liberty.

Do sailors have other white uniforms than their Dress Whites?  All the pics I have seen of the sailors manning the rail show them in white.  I don't mean just a bunch of sailors standing near a rail.  I know if you are going to make it look good, you will need to cast a whole bunch more figures.  Trumpeter only gives you 64, so about 20 in each pose.  The Trumpeter figures only come in three poses, At Attention, At Attention Saluting, and At Ease.  The way they are molded, they are pretty much unmodifiable.  Plus, their caps look like they were borrowed from the Sta-Puff Marshmallow Man.  So where would you put figures like these?  None of them are walking, or doing anything.  I think Trumpeter  screwed up a chance to have a really good feature with this model, but instead they made nearly useless toy figures.  I am hoping some of you former Navy folks can come up with some ideas that might look believable.  About all I can think of is put all the saluting figures in a group, in lines, and have one of the At Ease figures painted as an officer, who has just finished addressing his men.  Or all the At Attention figures in a similar group currently being addressed by their officer.  Do the sailors ever salute as a group?  Or do they just come to Attention?  Would two officers be saluting each other?  I can't imagine a Captain, or Admiral, coming to attention to return a salute from a Lieutenant, unless said Lieutenant happened to be a MOH wearer. 

These sets of figures from Preisser sound like they could make quite a difference.

Bocks Suv

The judges at my local contests dont seem to care about accuracy and authenticity, just finish quality and consistency. So you can paint a P-38 pink and they'll love it as long as it's well done. At the regionals and nationals, I imagine that things are different...perhaps more rivet counters go there.    

Speaking as a nationally qualified IPMS ship model judge, you are correct.   We put the primary emphasis on the quality of construction and finish application.     Most models are knocked out of competition during the first pass when seams,  alignment, glue blobs, and pebbly paint  are examined.   Then several closer looks at the remainders for detail application.   If PE is used are the nubs removed,  is it painted consistently or are nicks, cracks & scrapes apparent?  Is it applied straight & unwavering?   Are their shiny glue spots?

If it comes down to a couple of excellent examples that are in a dead heat; their construction is impecable - no seams, alignment is on,  details done to a similar level  and their finish is applied with no flaws,  tape ridges, runs,  holidays, etc.  -  it may come down to the 'feel' of the subject.    Which model 'feels' right.   Here the pink may play a factor in determining the placement.   ALL things being equal, the pink would come in second to something painted more traditionally.  

Yes, I have made decisions at the 3 foot level -- which one looks better at three feet than close up.  An award has to be made and which is least offensive

Aircraft IPMS judges are a bit more anal about color and marking  'accuracy' requirements.   IMO, you get more ship color "experts" at local or regional events than at the nationals.

Was the Arizona Sea Blue,  Navy Blue, Mediterranean Blue,  Dark Gray, SNG,  Haze Gray,  mauve,  or puce,  I don't know.    You, the builder, are the expert and we generally defer to your decisions WRT color selection

While I personally don't care how people finish their models, the name of this website and the magazine is Fine Scale Modeler. I would suppose that some members of the forum will be more concerned with detail than members of a website dealing with collectibles, for instance.

Fun!  You bet. I was wondering if you or aanyone kows of a site, thread or link that focuses on unique, fun modeling projects such as plans painted oddball schemes,  kit bashed hybrids, models combined with wedding cakes, etc??  I'm just curious baout how fun and creative some folks are getting. 

  The judges at my local contests dont seem to care about accuracy and authenticity, just finish quality and consistency. So you can paint a P-38 pink and they'll love it as long as it's well done. At the regionals and nationals, I imagine that things are different...perhaps more rivet counters go there.    

KennyB

I have some ships that I know have rigging mistakes, but I don't care.

Modeling is supposed to be FUN.

I think I'm going to get one of these, and look at some pictures and paint it what I think will look good

Of course fun, but in case You described - not modeling fun, but model-like toy making fun.

Anyway - thats is free choice, what You want to do with fun - a scale model or a model-like toy :-).

I think that's a great idea, Pink! I'm not trying to stir anything up here, but what I read a few posts back about the color makes me wonder. I know that some people strive for total correctness, but if veterans can't come up with a sure color scheme then who in this lifetime will know if it's correct or not. No matter what color you paint it, when someone comes over to the house and looks at this I doubt that they are going to say "the colors wrong", they're going to say "wow, that looks great". I build in plastic and wood. I have some ships that I know have rigging mistakes, but I don't care. You know why?, because I'm not expecting the curator from the Smithonian for dinner anytime soon. Modeling is supposed to be FUN. I think I'm going to get one of these, and look at some pictures and paint it what I think will look good, and I'll be able to sleep at night knowing that it's the color I wanted it to be. I'm with you mfsob, paint as you think fit, just have fun doing it, and if you paint it pink be sure to post some pics.                 

                                                                                                                               Ken

And I don't care what anyone says, I'm painting mine PINK!

Oh, wait, that was Operation Petticoat. My bad. 

Dress whites should reserved for sailors on watch at the quarterdeck, not for a random manning of the rail. Just about the whole crew would be involved in that. Maybe some random groups of sailors going on or coming back from liberty.

Someone posted here, or on ModelWarshipForum that the same company also makes figures in 1/220 scale, which he said makes them about 5'3" in 1/200.  He thought the figures with the model were about 6' scale.  So there are a couple of options.  I like the option for the merchant seamen.  At least they should be posed reasonably.  You could put the ones with the kit that are At Ease posed in their dress whites and pose them along the rail!

also not everybody is the same size so having different size figures would be more realistic.

I have to throw this in there for you modelers out there who have this kit . If you want more crew and you are at wits end figuring out where you,re gonna get them. Worry no more! You can go to your L.H.S.and in the train dept. you will find PREISER brand figurines that you can convert. They make people to go with "N" scale sets.Thats 1/160 scale and they will work IF you get the merchant seamen set (or two or three etc.)I just wanted to put this out there for you all to think about.I compared the ones I have with the crew supplied and they are darned near the same size! Check it out !   tankerbuilder    P.S. the average viewer of the finished  ship won,t notice the difference if you distribute them smartly.